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	<title>Comments on: The New Meche</title>
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	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/09/13/the-new-meche/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/09/13/the-new-meche/comment-page-1/#comment-1892</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=1874#comment-1892</guid>
		<description>Geez, this converstation has gotten a little nasty.  No need to get grumpy.  I think that this is an interesting discussion, because Meche is a guy who could have a huge impact on the M&#039;s record next year.  

I don&#039;t think that you can just compare pitchers stats without taking into account their ages, their situations, and their stuff.  Franklin is a 30-something pitcher without any plus pitches.  He has benefited from Safeco more than anyone.  Meche is a power pitcher, and has the tools to be a great pitcher.  His injury was serious, and I think that it effected him a lot last year, and perhaps in the first half this year.  Since he missed so much time, and his stamina was effected, you can kind of understand his problems.

There are two very promising things that I have seen with him lately.  First, his correction of his mechanical/approach problem has paid huge dividends.  The walks and the BAA are way way improved.  The fact that he made such a dramatic rebound from a horrible first half suggests that the problem is fixed.  The fact that it was not due to fatigue, arm problems, or unknown factors is good.  The second thing that is really impressive is his stamina.  In that last game, he was still throwing hard after 120 pitches (no comment on the fact that he was still in at all).  He has been getting deeper into games, and he doesn&#039;t seem to be loosing velocity late.  This might suggest that Meche has turned the corner regarding his return to health.  In 2003, he had the well-know post-allstar problems.  But he was also much less effective late in games than he seems to be now.  I don&#039;t have stats on this, because I don&#039;t know where to find data on the pre/post-allstar numbers broken down by innings.  But that start against Boston was really impressive because he was still throwing 96 late in the game.  Last year, he wasn&#039;t doing that.  Maybe it was just because he has not thrown that many innings this year (160 total).  But it looks good.

I think that Meche could be playing up to his potential from before his injuries.  If that is the case, this guy is no Ryan Franklin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geez, this converstation has gotten a little nasty.  No need to get grumpy.  I think that this is an interesting discussion, because Meche is a guy who could have a huge impact on the M&#8217;s record next year.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that you can just compare pitchers stats without taking into account their ages, their situations, and their stuff.  Franklin is a 30-something pitcher without any plus pitches.  He has benefited from Safeco more than anyone.  Meche is a power pitcher, and has the tools to be a great pitcher.  His injury was serious, and I think that it effected him a lot last year, and perhaps in the first half this year.  Since he missed so much time, and his stamina was effected, you can kind of understand his problems.</p>
<p>There are two very promising things that I have seen with him lately.  First, his correction of his mechanical/approach problem has paid huge dividends.  The walks and the BAA are way way improved.  The fact that he made such a dramatic rebound from a horrible first half suggests that the problem is fixed.  The fact that it was not due to fatigue, arm problems, or unknown factors is good.  The second thing that is really impressive is his stamina.  In that last game, he was still throwing hard after 120 pitches (no comment on the fact that he was still in at all).  He has been getting deeper into games, and he doesn&#8217;t seem to be loosing velocity late.  This might suggest that Meche has turned the corner regarding his return to health.  In 2003, he had the well-know post-allstar problems.  But he was also much less effective late in games than he seems to be now.  I don&#8217;t have stats on this, because I don&#8217;t know where to find data on the pre/post-allstar numbers broken down by innings.  But that start against Boston was really impressive because he was still throwing 96 late in the game.  Last year, he wasn&#8217;t doing that.  Maybe it was just because he has not thrown that many innings this year (160 total).  But it looks good.</p>
<p>I think that Meche could be playing up to his potential from before his injuries.  If that is the case, this guy is no Ryan Franklin.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Thomsen</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/09/13/the-new-meche/comment-page-1/#comment-1872</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Thomsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=1874#comment-1872</guid>
		<description>I wonder when we can get off the overchewed subject of Gil Meche and have a serious analytical dialogue about Jamie Moyer, who hasn&#039;t pitched a quality start in nearly three months and frankly looks like he&#039;s lost that razor-thin control edge that enabled him to successfully play the shell game that&#039;s gotten him as admirably far as it has over the last 10 years.  The Mariners are stuck with him for next year for a hell of a lot more money than Gil Meche will get in 2005, and could be forced to ride with him right into the toilet because he&#039;s a nice guy and a community icon and nobody wants to bench or release him for fear of alienate his fans.

Or am I wrong?  Is there any objective reason to think Moyer could be his 2003 self next year?  Or is he, like Meche, an exploration into the unknown we will be financially forced to choose? Is he a high-risk lottery ticket?  Or a safe bet ... at age 42?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder when we can get off the overchewed subject of Gil Meche and have a serious analytical dialogue about Jamie Moyer, who hasn&#8217;t pitched a quality start in nearly three months and frankly looks like he&#8217;s lost that razor-thin control edge that enabled him to successfully play the shell game that&#8217;s gotten him as admirably far as it has over the last 10 years.  The Mariners are stuck with him for next year for a hell of a lot more money than Gil Meche will get in 2005, and could be forced to ride with him right into the toilet because he&#8217;s a nice guy and a community icon and nobody wants to bench or release him for fear of alienate his fans.</p>
<p>Or am I wrong?  Is there any objective reason to think Moyer could be his 2003 self next year?  Or is he, like Meche, an exploration into the unknown we will be financially forced to choose? Is he a high-risk lottery ticket?  Or a safe bet &#8230; at age 42?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/09/13/the-new-meche/comment-page-1/#comment-1869</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=1874#comment-1869</guid>
		<description>I think the reason to stick with Meche is he is still relatively cheap with upside (sheesh we paid nearly 3 times as much for Jarvis)  There is no telling when Pitchers will suddenly &quot;get it&quot; and put it all together.  With his stuff he is certainly worth risking a couple mil on, worst case you have a 2.5 mil long reliever, hardly the end of the world for a team with a 95 mil payroll.  If you are KC or Minnesota you can&#039;t make too many gambles, the Ms can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the reason to stick with Meche is he is still relatively cheap with upside (sheesh we paid nearly 3 times as much for Jarvis)  There is no telling when Pitchers will suddenly &#8220;get it&#8221; and put it all together.  With his stuff he is certainly worth risking a couple mil on, worst case you have a 2.5 mil long reliever, hardly the end of the world for a team with a 95 mil payroll.  If you are KC or Minnesota you can&#8217;t make too many gambles, the Ms can.</p>
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		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/09/13/the-new-meche/comment-page-1/#comment-1861</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=1874#comment-1861</guid>
		<description>Of course, it would be very interesting to see how Meche had done against the Sox if he had not been facing their JV lineup. Itâ€™s far easier to pitch to a Boston lineup thatâ€™s missing David Ortiz, has Varitek batting left-handed in the #4 spot, and contains not one but two pitcherâ€™s spots (McCarty and Pokey).

(And I donâ€™t understand why readers like Joe and Stan McMurry continue to read the blog if they donâ€™t like DMZâ€™s comments.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, it would be very interesting to see how Meche had done against the Sox if he had not been facing their JV lineup. Itâ€™s far easier to pitch to a Boston lineup thatâ€™s missing David Ortiz, has Varitek batting left-handed in the #4 spot, and contains not one but two pitcherâ€™s spots (McCarty and Pokey).</p>
<p>(And I donâ€™t understand why readers like Joe and Stan McMurry continue to read the blog if they donâ€™t like DMZâ€™s comments.)</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/09/13/the-new-meche/comment-page-1/#comment-1857</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=1874#comment-1857</guid>
		<description>My problem with Meche is based SOLELY on inconsistency.  I would prefer a consistent 4era, 12 wins per season type SP to a guy who flashes brilliance in between mediocrity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My problem with Meche is based SOLELY on inconsistency.  I would prefer a consistent 4era, 12 wins per season type SP to a guy who flashes brilliance in between mediocrity.</p>
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		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/09/13/the-new-meche/comment-page-1/#comment-1856</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=1874#comment-1856</guid>
		<description>I compared Meche to Schilling because someone else did because they disagreed with my Frankling+strikeouts thing! ARRGGHHHH.

And Meche has far more than one full year of MLB experience. I don&#039;t know if you meant that he&#039;d only spent one year on the team from Opening Day to the end, which would be true, if a strange standard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I compared Meche to Schilling because someone else did because they disagreed with my Frankling+strikeouts thing! ARRGGHHHH.</p>
<p>And Meche has far more than one full year of MLB experience. I don&#8217;t know if you meant that he&#8217;d only spent one year on the team from Opening Day to the end, which would be true, if a strange standard.</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/09/13/the-new-meche/comment-page-1/#comment-1855</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=1874#comment-1855</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t worry, DMZ.  Everyone on the interenet knows Vertigoleys stinks...and it has nothing to do with your ISP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry, DMZ.  Everyone on the interenet knows Vertigoleys stinks&#8230;and it has nothing to do with your ISP.</p>
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		<title>By: Vertigoleys</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/09/13/the-new-meche/comment-page-1/#comment-1845</link>
		<dc:creator>Vertigoleys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=1874#comment-1845</guid>
		<description>well actually DMZ the problem is with the stupidity displayed on these boards... probably not much your ISP can do about it unless everyone is banned from these boards..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well actually DMZ the problem is with the stupidity displayed on these boards&#8230; probably not much your ISP can do about it unless everyone is banned from these boards..</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/09/13/the-new-meche/comment-page-1/#comment-1844</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=1874#comment-1844</guid>
		<description>DMZ, I am getting tired of your comments about Meche game after game. I am happy with this guy we beat the damn Yankees and Red sox. 2 million dollars for Meche is nothing considering how much we paid for the few guys to sit at home.  And you are comparing Meche to Schilling. One has only one full year of experience of MLB. I am trying to enjoy the few bright games in this season and I simply don&#039;t understand why would you keep whine about Meche while Franklin would be making more money than he does next year?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DMZ, I am getting tired of your comments about Meche game after game. I am happy with this guy we beat the damn Yankees and Red sox. 2 million dollars for Meche is nothing considering how much we paid for the few guys to sit at home.  And you are comparing Meche to Schilling. One has only one full year of experience of MLB. I am trying to enjoy the few bright games in this season and I simply don&#8217;t understand why would you keep whine about Meche while Franklin would be making more money than he does next year?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Weaver</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/09/13/the-new-meche/comment-page-1/#comment-1831</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=1874#comment-1831</guid>
		<description>I think his shutout in leu of several 100-120+ pitch outings is a positive sign that he has gained some endurance as a starter.  Also, he has now logged...4 years as a MLB starter.  There is some evidence &lt;i&gt;for&lt;/i&gt; him.  Especially as something other than a &quot;lottery ticket.&quot;  
&lt;table border=&quot;1&quot;&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt;Do HTML tables work on forums?&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt;they may be good for display&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think his shutout in leu of several 100-120+ pitch outings is a positive sign that he has gained some endurance as a starter.  Also, he has now logged&#8230;4 years as a MLB starter.  There is some evidence <i>for</i> him.  Especially as something other than a &#8220;lottery ticket.&#8221;  </p>
<table border="1">
<tr>
<td>Do HTML tables work on forums?</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>they may be good for display</td>
</tr>
</table>
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