Comments on: Carl Pavano http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/10/26/carl-pavano/ Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:59:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: muddy frogwater http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/10/26/carl-pavano/comment-page-1/#comment-7448 muddy frogwater Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:37:06 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2001#comment-7448 I entertain the thought of Derek Lowe. Not because of his overated post season Beltran like heroics. Derek Lowe is a ground ball pitcher with his sinker and relies heavily on the DP. Derek Lowe plays gold glove style D. Most of the season he had a less than stellar defense playing behind him. The Sox traded Nomar for Cabrera with his outstanding D to shore up the infield. Could it be if he had a reliable infield, moved to a different division where the hitters haven't had as many looks at his pitches that he could improve? Could we once again see a sub 3.00 ERA? He faces some mighty big bats over there in the AL East. I entertain the thought of Derek Lowe. Not because of his overated post season Beltran like heroics. Derek Lowe is a ground ball pitcher with his sinker and relies heavily on the DP. Derek Lowe plays gold glove style D. Most of the season he had a less than stellar defense playing behind him. The Sox traded Nomar for Cabrera with his outstanding D to shore up the infield. Could it be if he had a reliable infield, moved to a different division where the hitters haven’t had as many looks at his pitches that he could improve? Could we once again see a sub 3.00 ERA? He faces some mighty big bats over there in the AL East.

]]> By: Admiral Ackbar http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/10/26/carl-pavano/comment-page-1/#comment-5762 Admiral Ackbar Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:41:27 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2001#comment-5762 It's a trap! It’s a trap!

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/10/26/carl-pavano/comment-page-1/#comment-5760 Jeremy Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:25:02 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2001#comment-5760 Bela, As an average baseball fan, I don't want to read a 35,000 word BP styled math clinic on every free agent. If we were arguing a capital murder case in court, I'd expect such a diatribe. Since we are not, I enjoy these synopsis style columns for what they are. I'm glad that the fine folks at USSM have decided to write their columns in a way that many baseball fans can enjoy. The guys here have established their credibility as their readership numbers no doubt indicate. I don't need to know every step they took to form their opinions. Bela,

As an average baseball fan, I don’t want to read a 35,000 word BP styled math clinic on every free agent. If we were arguing a capital murder case in court, I’d expect such a diatribe. Since we are not, I enjoy these synopsis style columns for what they are.

I’m glad that the fine folks at USSM have decided to write their columns in a way that many baseball fans can enjoy. The guys here have established their credibility as their readership numbers no doubt indicate. I don’t need to know every step they took to form their opinions.

]]> By: Bela Txadux http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/10/26/carl-pavano/comment-page-1/#comment-5756 Bela Txadux Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:41:52 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2001#comment-5756 Yo Dave, re: your background on the foreground, in fact I assume that _nothing_ I mention, certainly not in this Pavano post, is news to you. It's clear that there is a lot more info in your approach than makes it into your posts. My primary goal in this post is that without some of that background there is an 'impression' of a skew in the _posted_ evaluation which I do not think is actually the case in _your_ case. Others will read these evals and take them as the first and the last word, however; that is my concern. I don't think Carl Pavano is where I want to make my stand on 'all the facts, please,' but I think you get my meaning here. Yo Dave, re: your background on the foreground, in fact I assume that _nothing_ I mention, certainly not in this Pavano post, is news to you. It’s clear that there is a lot more info in your approach than makes it into your posts. My primary goal in this post is that without some of that background there is an ‘impression’ of a skew in the _posted_ evaluation which I do not think is actually the case in _your_ case. Others will read these evals and take them as the first and the last word, however; that is my concern. I don’t think Carl Pavano is where I want to make my stand on ‘all the facts, please,’ but I think you get my meaning here.

]]> By: DMZ http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/10/26/carl-pavano/comment-page-1/#comment-5724 DMZ Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:58:20 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2001#comment-5724 *poof* Done. *poof* *poof*

Done.

*poof*

]]> By: Ryan http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/10/26/carl-pavano/comment-page-1/#comment-5723 Ryan Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:57:23 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2001#comment-5723 Btw....don't forget to link the Pavano analysis to the '05 roster construction page. Thanks. Btw….don’t forget to link the Pavano analysis to the ’05 roster construction page. Thanks.

]]> By: Eric http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/10/26/carl-pavano/comment-page-1/#comment-5720 Eric Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:38:57 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2001#comment-5720 Jim, Many theorize that Scott learned more than just a split finger:-) Jim,

Many theorize that Scott learned more than just a split finger:-)

]]> By: Brent Overman http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/10/26/carl-pavano/comment-page-1/#comment-5712 Brent Overman Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:29:43 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2001#comment-5712 I'm leery on Pavano given his injury history. He may have turn the corner and looks like he's no Chris Bosio fluke (one good year). That said, is Carl Pavano above or at the same level as most of St. Louis's pitching staff, given park effects? IMO, St. Louis is getting pummeled so far this series because Boston has extremely patient hitters facing barely-above (at best) league average contact pitchers prone to an occasional mistake pitch. Running contact pitchers out against a patient team is a recipe for disaster; one St. Louis couldn't avoid. It was no surprise Suppan, Williams, and Morris were ineffective given their inability to dominantly attack the strike zone. What made Florida so successful last year was the domination by Beckett and strong defense behind pitchers like Pavano. We all know what happens to the contact pitchers (Franklin, Moyer, Pineiro, et al) with Seattle's current defense. What potential dominating pitching is available on the market? Matt Clement? There's that name again... I’m leery on Pavano given his injury history. He may have turn the corner and looks like he’s no Chris Bosio fluke (one good year). That said, is Carl Pavano above or at the same level as most of St. Louis’s pitching staff, given park effects?

IMO, St. Louis is getting pummeled so far this series because Boston has extremely patient hitters facing barely-above (at best) league average contact pitchers prone to an occasional mistake pitch. Running contact pitchers out against a patient team is a recipe for disaster; one St. Louis couldn’t avoid. It was no surprise Suppan, Williams, and Morris were ineffective given their inability to dominantly attack the strike zone.

What made Florida so successful last year was the domination by Beckett and strong defense behind pitchers like Pavano. We all know what happens to the contact pitchers (Franklin, Moyer, Pineiro, et al) with Seattle’s current defense.

What potential dominating pitching is available on the market? Matt Clement? There’s that name again…

]]> By: Jim Thomsen http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/10/26/carl-pavano/comment-page-1/#comment-5703 Jim Thomsen Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:26:19 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2001#comment-5703 #5 — Mike Scott is probably a good example of what you're looking for. He scuffled in mediocrity from 1979 through 1984, then, partway through 1985, starting trying out the split-finger fastball. He mastered it in his great 1986 season at age 31, and was a great pitcher through 1990 before injuries derailed his career well short of borderline Hall of Fame consideration. Paul Wilson and Paul Byrd might also qualify, though they were highly-rated prospects who lost huge chunks of their careers to injuries before finding their way. #5 — Mike Scott is probably a good example of what you’re looking for. He scuffled in mediocrity from 1979 through 1984, then, partway through 1985, starting trying out the split-finger fastball. He mastered it in his great 1986 season at age 31, and was a great pitcher through 1990 before injuries derailed his career well short of borderline Hall of Fame consideration.

Paul Wilson and Paul Byrd might also qualify, though they were highly-rated prospects who lost huge chunks of their careers to injuries before finding their way.

]]> By: PositivePaul http://www.ussmariner.com/2004/10/26/carl-pavano/comment-page-1/#comment-5702 PositivePaul Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:04:00 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2001#comment-5702 All the signs seem to point to Bavasi being very interested in taking a risk on Beltre. I'm really curious if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I'm leaning to the side that it's a HUGE risk to take, but could certainly be convinced otherwise because I haven't really seen him play all that much. If indeed he became the next Chavez or Rolen, then I'd say we'd be just fine throwing him a long contract. Have you formulated your thoughts on Beltre, Dave? I think your articles on Beltre and Beltran should be next... All the signs seem to point to Bavasi being very interested in taking a risk on Beltre. I’m really curious if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I’m leaning to the side that it’s a HUGE risk to take, but could certainly be convinced otherwise because I haven’t really seen him play all that much. If indeed he became the next Chavez or Rolen, then I’d say we’d be just fine throwing him a long contract. Have you formulated your thoughts on Beltre, Dave? I think your articles on Beltre and Beltran should be next…

]]>