Comments on: Curse of Gaven http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/01/27/curse-of-gaven/ Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:59:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Rob McMillin http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/01/27/curse-of-gaven/comment-page-1/#comment-15353 Rob McMillin Mon, 31 Jan 2005 23:50:23 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2231#comment-15353 <a href="http://6-4-2.blogspot.com/2005/01/answering-curse-of-gavin.html">My response</a>. My response.

]]> By: captain_napalm http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/01/27/curse-of-gaven/comment-page-1/#comment-15197 captain_napalm Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:52:50 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2231#comment-15197 11# Because unlike the Dodgers, the Giants weren't doing too well at the gate. Some blame the area (people have told me that the area around the Polo Grounds were getting "bad" at the time... I suppose the area improved when the Mets came to town? lol), some blame mediocre ball by the Giants, some say the park was tough to get to, but the end result was the same; people stayed away from the park. They were looking for a new park as well, and IIRC they were offered the Flushing site as well. They were set to move to MN, but I would've loved to see them remain in NY, and I wonder what could've been when the Giants got better talentwise with McCovey, Cepeda, Bill White, and Co. Would they have won a few pennants? Would attendance have improved? 11#

Because unlike the Dodgers, the Giants weren’t doing too well at the gate.

Some blame the area (people have told me that the area around the Polo Grounds were getting “bad” at the time… I suppose the area improved when the Mets came to town? lol), some blame mediocre ball by the Giants, some say the park was tough to get to, but the end result was the same; people stayed away from the park. They were looking for a new park as well, and IIRC they were offered the Flushing site as well.

They were set to move to MN, but I would’ve loved to see them remain in NY, and I wonder what could’ve been when the Giants got better talentwise with McCovey, Cepeda, Bill White, and Co. Would they have won a few pennants? Would attendance have improved?

]]> By: captain_napalm http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/01/27/curse-of-gaven/comment-page-1/#comment-15194 captain_napalm Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:36:57 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2231#comment-15194 Bill Veeck has an interesting take on the Dodgers' move to LA. Anyone else familiar with it? [quote]I was born in Brooklyn, a few blocks from where Ebbets Field stood. The site on which O’Malley wished to build a ballpark has remained undeveloped since then, and is now the site proposed by the Nets for their new baskeball complex. We will see if that gets built either.[/quote] IIRC the site O'Malley wanted was at the intersection of Atlantic & Flatbush Aves. Don't know what the area was like back then, but I'd think putting a Stadium on that site would have been a traffic nightmare. The site has finally been developed. They redid the transit hub and built a couple of malls onsite. So maybe it wouldn't have been so bad after all. Bill Veeck has an interesting take on the Dodgers’ move to LA. Anyone else familiar with it?

[quote]I was born in Brooklyn, a few blocks from where Ebbets Field stood. The site on which O’Malley wished to build a ballpark has remained undeveloped since then, and is now the site proposed by the Nets for their new baskeball complex. We will see if that gets built either.[/quote]

IIRC the site O’Malley wanted was at the intersection of Atlantic & Flatbush Aves.

Don’t know what the area was like back then, but I’d think putting a Stadium on that site would have been a traffic nightmare. The site has finally been developed. They redid the transit hub and built a couple of malls onsite. So maybe it wouldn’t have been so bad after all.

]]> By: Bernard Aboba http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/01/27/curse-of-gaven/comment-page-1/#comment-15164 Bernard Aboba Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:51:25 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2231#comment-15164 With respect to Ebbets field, there is a website out there: http://www.ebbets-field.com/ This includes a blue-print and a picture of the Rotunda: http://www.ebbets-field.com/Ebbets%20Field/Rotunda/Blueprint.jpg http://www.ebbets-field.com/Ebbets%20Field/Rotunda/Inside%20the%20Rotunda.jpg At the opening day of Safeco field, I seem to recall hearing that the elements of the Safeco Rotunda were modelled on Ebbets Field, although the resemblance is not obvious judging by the above picture. Does anyone remember that, or was it just my imagination? With respect to Ebbets field, there is a website out there:

http://www.ebbets-field.com/

This includes a blue-print and a picture of the Rotunda:
http://www.ebbets-field.com/Ebbets%20Field/Rotunda/Blueprint.jpg
http://www.ebbets-field.com/Ebbets%20Field/Rotunda/Inside%20the%20Rotunda.jpg

At the opening day of Safeco field, I seem to recall hearing that the elements of the Safeco Rotunda were modelled on Ebbets Field, although the resemblance is not obvious judging by the above picture. Does anyone remember that, or was it just my imagination?

]]> By: Bernard Aboba http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/01/27/curse-of-gaven/comment-page-1/#comment-15163 Bernard Aboba Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:34:39 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2231#comment-15163 #13 - there is a special edition, called "Pafko at the Wall" that contains only the section of Libra relating to the 1951 Giants-Dodgers final game. #13 – there is a special edition, called “Pafko at the Wall” that contains only the section of Libra relating to the 1951 Giants-Dodgers final game.

]]> By: eponymous coward http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/01/27/curse-of-gaven/comment-page-1/#comment-15145 eponymous coward Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:47:52 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2231#comment-15145 Because the Giants basically got ran into the ground in the late 1950's, while the Dodogers were at their peak. (The defending world champion Giants drew an average of LESS than 11,000 a game in 1955, in NYC, and were 6th in the league in attendance, behind a 66-88 Pirates team which was on the tail end of a 10 year stretch of awful baseball. Think about that for a minute. Wouldn't YOU be tempted to move your team under those circumstances?) Plus Horace Stoneham moved as a favor to Walter O'Malley- it was pretty clear who was the "instigator". Bill James wrote some on the 1950's being a time of trouble for baseball, attendance-wise, in the Historical Baseball Abstract, and Roger Kahn also writes about this in The Boys of Summer- as I recall, his description of Bill Bavasi's dad was "E.J. 'Buzzy' Bavasi, Dodger executive vice president in charge of Dick Young". Kahn makes it pretty clear that Young got preferential treatment by the Dodger front office due to his being an influential writer with the Daily News, and got dropped like an old shoe once the team no longer needed him due to an imminent move to LA. Because the Giants basically got ran into the ground in the late 1950′s, while the Dodogers were at their peak. (The defending world champion Giants drew an average of LESS than 11,000 a game in 1955, in NYC, and were 6th in the league in attendance, behind a 66-88 Pirates team which was on the tail end of a 10 year stretch of awful baseball. Think about that for a minute. Wouldn’t YOU be tempted to move your team under those circumstances?) Plus Horace Stoneham moved as a favor to Walter O’Malley- it was pretty clear who was the “instigator”.

Bill James wrote some on the 1950′s being a time of trouble for baseball, attendance-wise, in the Historical Baseball Abstract, and Roger Kahn also writes about this in The Boys of Summer- as I recall, his description of Bill Bavasi’s dad was “E.J. ‘Buzzy’ Bavasi, Dodger executive vice president in charge of Dick Young”. Kahn makes it pretty clear that Young got preferential treatment by the Dodger front office due to his being an influential writer with the Daily News, and got dropped like an old shoe once the team no longer needed him due to an imminent move to LA.

]]> By: mr kenny http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/01/27/curse-of-gaven/comment-page-1/#comment-15141 mr kenny Fri, 28 Jan 2005 19:59:47 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2231#comment-15141 <a href = "http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20020724&content_id=88507&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp" target = "_self">Err... doh!</a><br /> libra is still a good book. Err… doh!
libra is still a good book.

]]> By: mr kenny http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/01/27/curse-of-gaven/comment-page-1/#comment-15140 mr kenny Fri, 28 Jan 2005 19:56:55 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2231#comment-15140 #5, talking about libra by don delillo? yep, good book :) #5, talking about libra by don delillo? yep, good book :)

]]> By: Adam M http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/01/27/curse-of-gaven/comment-page-1/#comment-15139 Adam M Fri, 28 Jan 2005 19:33:06 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2231#comment-15139 Dodger Thoughts links to this site the Offical Walter Om'Malley website, which has a whole section on O'Malley's attempt to build a new stadium for the Dodgers in Brooklyn. The designs Fuller created were really innovative: a transparent geodesic dome (fiberglass I think), that would have served as an open roof. Its beuaty is definitely subjective, but fascinating nonetheless: http://www.walteromalley.com/feat_fuller_index.php Dodger Thoughts links to this site the Offical Walter Om’Malley website, which has a whole section on O’Malley’s attempt to build a new stadium for the Dodgers in Brooklyn. The designs Fuller created were really innovative: a transparent geodesic dome (fiberglass I think), that would have served as an open roof. Its beuaty is definitely subjective, but fascinating nonetheless:

http://www.walteromalley.com/feat_fuller_index.php

]]> By: Dash http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/01/27/curse-of-gaven/comment-page-1/#comment-15137 Dash Fri, 28 Jan 2005 18:32:39 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=2231#comment-15137 So here's my question. Why are the Dodgers historically villified for moving from New York to LA, but the Giants move from NY to San Fran is barely even mentioned as an afterthought? Most people don't even realize that the Giants even played in NY, but most know the Dodgers are from Brooklyn. So here’s my question. Why are the Dodgers historically villified for moving from New York to LA, but the Giants move from NY to San Fran is barely even mentioned as an afterthought? Most people don’t even realize that the Giants even played in NY, but most know the Dodgers are from Brooklyn.

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