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	<title>Comments on: MLB&#8217;s fantasy rampage</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/02/16/mlbs-fantasy-rampage/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/02/16/mlbs-fantasy-rampage/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: devoted_fantasy_football_fan</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/02/16/mlbs-fantasy-rampage/comment-page-1/#comment-21851</link>
		<dc:creator>devoted_fantasy_football_fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2263#comment-21851</guid>
		<description>I think it is important for everyone here to read this thread:

It sums up the entire case, what both sides are claiming, and how copyright and publicity right law affects it.

http://www.fantasyfootballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=131610&amp;highlight=future+fantasy+sports</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is important for everyone here to read this thread:</p>
<p>It sums up the entire case, what both sides are claiming, and how copyright and publicity right law affects it.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fantasyfootballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=131610&#038;highlight=future+fantasy+sports" rel="nofollow">http://www.fantasyfootballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=131610&#038;highlight=future+fantasy+sports</a></p>
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		<title>By: devil's advocate</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/02/16/mlbs-fantasy-rampage/comment-page-1/#comment-16486</link>
		<dc:creator>devil's advocate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2263#comment-16486</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;MLB is trying very hard to assert a â€œright of publicity&quot; [over boxscores and the like], which I would have to say is a crock. The newspapers report such stuff every day; do they, too, have to stop reporting box scores now?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The first sentence of DeMause&#039;s article flatly refutes this.

The center of the article is the question of whether or not fantasy games are &quot;essentially just stats services.&quot;  As much as I don&#039;t like the implications, and acknowledging that legally I have no clue what I&#039;m talking about, I think the answer is that they are NOT just stats services.

When you play fantasy baseball, you do more than just consume statistical information, you&#039;re consuming interactive entertainment that depends on player likenesses for its entertainment value.  I think the most important distinction that DeMause draws in his article is between newspaper box scores and Strat-O-Matic.  I fail to see how Yahoo fantasy baseball is more akin to a boxscore than it is to Strat-O-Matic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>MLB is trying very hard to assert a â€œright of publicity&#8221; [over boxscores and the like], which I would have to say is a crock. The newspapers report such stuff every day; do they, too, have to stop reporting box scores now?</p></blockquote>
<p>The first sentence of DeMause&#8217;s article flatly refutes this.</p>
<p>The center of the article is the question of whether or not fantasy games are &#8220;essentially just stats services.&#8221;  As much as I don&#8217;t like the implications, and acknowledging that legally I have no clue what I&#8217;m talking about, I think the answer is that they are NOT just stats services.</p>
<p>When you play fantasy baseball, you do more than just consume statistical information, you&#8217;re consuming interactive entertainment that depends on player likenesses for its entertainment value.  I think the most important distinction that DeMause draws in his article is between newspaper box scores and Strat-O-Matic.  I fail to see how Yahoo fantasy baseball is more akin to a boxscore than it is to Strat-O-Matic.</p>
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		<title>By: chris w</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/02/16/mlbs-fantasy-rampage/comment-page-1/#comment-16417</link>
		<dc:creator>chris w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2263#comment-16417</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, Rob, in part.  All that fantasy outfits do is take uncopyrightable material (stats - boxscores, basically) and make them into a real-time game.  Where are the publicity rights there?  The original fantasy baseball games were in fact based entirely on box scores.

I disagree, though, regarding the legal posture.  I do think CDM will take this lawsuit all the way to victory and, assuming CDM wins, ESPN, Yahoo, and CBS Sportsline will have to seriously consider running their fantasy operations without a sublicense.  At the very least, the lawsuit will dissuade MLB from gouging its sublicensees (and ultimately consumers) by abusing the exclusive license granted to it by MLBPA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, Rob, in part.  All that fantasy outfits do is take uncopyrightable material (stats &#8211; boxscores, basically) and make them into a real-time game.  Where are the publicity rights there?  The original fantasy baseball games were in fact based entirely on box scores.</p>
<p>I disagree, though, regarding the legal posture.  I do think CDM will take this lawsuit all the way to victory and, assuming CDM wins, ESPN, Yahoo, and CBS Sportsline will have to seriously consider running their fantasy operations without a sublicense.  At the very least, the lawsuit will dissuade MLB from gouging its sublicensees (and ultimately consumers) by abusing the exclusive license granted to it by MLBPA.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob McMillin</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/02/16/mlbs-fantasy-rampage/comment-page-1/#comment-16408</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob McMillin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2263#comment-16408</guid>
		<description>I doubt MLB.com will go after sites that don&#039;t earnestly try to make a buck.

But they might try to pursue somebody like baseball-reference.com if they can convince the courts that box scores and the like are somehow protected, copyrightable data.  Facts are not copyrightable; only a thin copyright is granted on such stuff.  MLB is trying very hard to assert a &quot;right of publicity&quot;, which I would have to say is a crock.  The newspapers report such stuff every day; do they, too, have to stop reporting box scores now?  I don&#039;t think so, and that&#039;s where this silliness will ultimately end.  The problem is the big players in fantasy will get co&#246;pted by virtue of having already paid the license; unlike the situation with the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._Selden&quot;&gt;Selden Patent&lt;/a&gt;, there is no cantankerous Henry Ford who is likely to have both the money and the inclination to drag the thing all the way through the courts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt MLB.com will go after sites that don&#8217;t earnestly try to make a buck.</p>
<p>But they might try to pursue somebody like baseball-reference.com if they can convince the courts that box scores and the like are somehow protected, copyrightable data.  Facts are not copyrightable; only a thin copyright is granted on such stuff.  MLB is trying very hard to assert a &#8220;right of publicity&#8221;, which I would have to say is a crock.  The newspapers report such stuff every day; do they, too, have to stop reporting box scores now?  I don&#8217;t think so, and that&#8217;s where this silliness will ultimately end.  The problem is the big players in fantasy will get co&ouml;pted by virtue of having already paid the license; unlike the situation with the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._Selden">Selden Patent</a>, there is no cantankerous Henry Ford who is likely to have both the money and the inclination to drag the thing all the way through the courts.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/02/16/mlbs-fantasy-rampage/comment-page-1/#comment-16406</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2263#comment-16406</guid>
		<description>I had read that licensees also had to turn over their customer lists (for those playing the games, I assume). I&#039;d be surprised if ESPN or Yahoo! would agree to these terms; and when I asked Yahoo!, the answer from &quot;Lawrence&quot; in Customer Care was

&lt;blockquote&gt;No your information is not shared with outside parties.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Does anyone have the inside scoop, so I don&#039;t have fall back on trusting my new buddy Lawrence?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had read that licensees also had to turn over their customer lists (for those playing the games, I assume). I&#8217;d be surprised if ESPN or Yahoo! would agree to these terms; and when I asked Yahoo!, the answer from &#8220;Lawrence&#8221; in Customer Care was</p>
<blockquote><p>No your information is not shared with outside parties.</p></blockquote>
<p>Does anyone have the inside scoop, so I don&#8217;t have fall back on trusting my new buddy Lawrence?</p>
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		<title>By: Brent Overman</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/02/16/mlbs-fantasy-rampage/comment-page-1/#comment-16391</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent Overman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Feb 2005 20:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2263#comment-16391</guid>
		<description>Thanks again for posting this, Derek.  I knew a little about this, but BP really made it clear.  Like others, I saw that Yahoo FB is up today and taking registrations.  It&#039;ll be interesting if everything sticks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks again for posting this, Derek.  I knew a little about this, but BP really made it clear.  Like others, I saw that Yahoo FB is up today and taking registrations.  It&#8217;ll be interesting if everything sticks.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Rust</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/02/16/mlbs-fantasy-rampage/comment-page-1/#comment-16379</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Rust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2263#comment-16379</guid>
		<description>Gee, and here I thought &quot;fantasy baseball&quot; was the M&#039;s winning the World Series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee, and here I thought &#8220;fantasy baseball&#8221; was the M&#8217;s winning the World Series.</p>
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		<title>By: Saul</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/02/16/mlbs-fantasy-rampage/comment-page-1/#comment-16362</link>
		<dc:creator>Saul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Feb 2005 03:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2263#comment-16362</guid>
		<description>I know in several baseball video games, since they do not have Bonds&#039; permission to use his name, they merely call him &quot;All-Star Left Fielder&quot; or &quot;Giants Left Fielder.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know in several baseball video games, since they do not have Bonds&#8217; permission to use his name, they merely call him &#8220;All-Star Left Fielder&#8221; or &#8220;Giants Left Fielder.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: stiletto</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/02/16/mlbs-fantasy-rampage/comment-page-1/#comment-16361</link>
		<dc:creator>stiletto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Feb 2005 03:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2263#comment-16361</guid>
		<description>so are sites like RotoWorld gonna go kaput??
and is that this year?  like now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so are sites like RotoWorld gonna go kaput??<br />
and is that this year?  like now?</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Rabbit</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/02/16/mlbs-fantasy-rampage/comment-page-1/#comment-16360</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Rabbit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Feb 2005 02:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2263#comment-16360</guid>
		<description>Shouldn&#039;t this site be paying the Mariners and MLB royalties? Also those posting assessed a fee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shouldn&#8217;t this site be paying the Mariners and MLB royalties? Also those posting assessed a fee.</p>
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