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	<title>Comments on: Position Roundtables: Right Field</title>
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	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/03/01/position-roundtables-right-field/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: Dan G</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/03/01/position-roundtables-right-field/comment-page-2/#comment-17911</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2291#comment-17911</guid>
		<description>Ichiro&#039;s OPS since coming to Seattle (2001 through 2004).

838
813
788
869

Offensively, this looks like an decent major league right fielder to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ichiro&#8217;s OPS since coming to Seattle (2001 through 2004).</p>
<p>838<br />
813<br />
788<br />
869</p>
<p>Offensively, this looks like an decent major league right fielder to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Albright</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/03/01/position-roundtables-right-field/comment-page-2/#comment-17811</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Albright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2291#comment-17811</guid>
		<description>Since the Ichiro for HOF thread is closed, I thought this was a good 
place to mention that I&#039;ve finally completed my analysis of how I see 
his status for Cooperstown.  I got hung up trying to do comparables 
to him at his age using SQL, and only recently figured out another way around the issue.  Anyway, the link is:  
&lt;a href=&quot;http://baseballguru.com/jalbright/analysisjalbright31.html&quot;&gt;
this page&lt;/a&gt;.  Hope you find it interesting.

Jim Albright</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the Ichiro for HOF thread is closed, I thought this was a good<br />
place to mention that I&#8217;ve finally completed my analysis of how I see<br />
his status for Cooperstown.  I got hung up trying to do comparables<br />
to him at his age using SQL, and only recently figured out another way around the issue.  Anyway, the link is:<br />
<a href="http://baseballguru.com/jalbright/analysisjalbright31.html"><br />
this page</a>.  Hope you find it interesting.</p>
<p>Jim Albright</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/03/01/position-roundtables-right-field/comment-page-2/#comment-17469</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2005 05:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2291#comment-17469</guid>
		<description>Re: #80, the 2004 splits for Ichiro are:

None on: .376/.401/.475
1B only: .355/.378/.393
Runners on: .364/.439/.412

So the effect is still there, but it&#039;s not nearly as severe as the 3-year (2002-2004) split you&#039;ve quoted. Why is that? Well, 2003 is also not as severe as the 3-year number. But then there&#039;s 2002:

None on: .332/.379/.450
1B only: .227/.257/.289
Runners on: .301/.402/.375

So the 3-year split just happens to include a huge anomaly from 2002...how conveeeeeeeenient...

I think that if there was a big problem, he&#039;s addressed it somehow. I don&#039;t see how putting him in the &quot;runner on 1B&quot; situation another two dozen times each year presents any great hazard to his performance level. Note also that the individuals on first in the &quot;Ichiro batting #2&quot; scenario would tend to be somewhat faster than those reflected in the stats we&#039;re quoting here, which cuts down a bit on the easy FC situations both through ordinary base speed and by stealing second to eliminate force options.

Costing Ichiro 18 PAs is of some consequence, but so is costing Bonds 36 PAs...should Bonds bat leadoff to prevent that? In general it&#039;s best to bat strong hitters next to other strong hitters to benefit from synergy both before and after each good offensive player. That lineup effect will generally outweigh any of these other effects discussed here. Enshrining an excellent player at the top of the order for &quot;inside baseball&quot; cultural reasons fails, I think, to gain the full advantage that&#039;s offered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: #80, the 2004 splits for Ichiro are:</p>
<p>None on: .376/.401/.475<br />
1B only: .355/.378/.393<br />
Runners on: .364/.439/.412</p>
<p>So the effect is still there, but it&#8217;s not nearly as severe as the 3-year (2002-2004) split you&#8217;ve quoted. Why is that? Well, 2003 is also not as severe as the 3-year number. But then there&#8217;s 2002:</p>
<p>None on: .332/.379/.450<br />
1B only: .227/.257/.289<br />
Runners on: .301/.402/.375</p>
<p>So the 3-year split just happens to include a huge anomaly from 2002&#8230;how conveeeeeeeenient&#8230;</p>
<p>I think that if there was a big problem, he&#8217;s addressed it somehow. I don&#8217;t see how putting him in the &#8220;runner on 1B&#8221; situation another two dozen times each year presents any great hazard to his performance level. Note also that the individuals on first in the &#8220;Ichiro batting #2&#8243; scenario would tend to be somewhat faster than those reflected in the stats we&#8217;re quoting here, which cuts down a bit on the easy FC situations both through ordinary base speed and by stealing second to eliminate force options.</p>
<p>Costing Ichiro 18 PAs is of some consequence, but so is costing Bonds 36 PAs&#8230;should Bonds bat leadoff to prevent that? In general it&#8217;s best to bat strong hitters next to other strong hitters to benefit from synergy both before and after each good offensive player. That lineup effect will generally outweigh any of these other effects discussed here. Enshrining an excellent player at the top of the order for &#8220;inside baseball&#8221; cultural reasons fails, I think, to gain the full advantage that&#8217;s offered.</p>
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		<title>By: tangotiger</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/03/01/position-roundtables-right-field/comment-page-2/#comment-17465</link>
		<dc:creator>tangotiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2005 03:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2291#comment-17465</guid>
		<description>Utis: I have published research that compares the *same* fielder, and how he performs at CF / LF or CF / RF.  This is how I got the numbers I have described here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Utis: I have published research that compares the *same* fielder, and how he performs at CF / LF or CF / RF.  This is how I got the numbers I have described here.</p>
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		<title>By: Utis</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/03/01/position-roundtables-right-field/comment-page-2/#comment-17446</link>
		<dc:creator>Utis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 23:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2291#comment-17446</guid>
		<description>What is the evidence that Ichiro&#039;s range (as measured by total chances and putouts) would increase significantly by moving from RF to CF?  The aggregate stats are biased by teams putting the players with the best range in CF. According to ESPN&#039;s fielding stats, Ichiro led all AL outfielders last year in total chances and putouts.  Unfortunately, the data for the Cameron years wasn&#039;t available.  Having Ichiro in right field lets the Ms take advantage of both his range and his arm.  Moreover, his (and Winn&#039;s) range lets them get away with playing Reed in center.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the evidence that Ichiro&#8217;s range (as measured by total chances and putouts) would increase significantly by moving from RF to CF?  The aggregate stats are biased by teams putting the players with the best range in CF. According to ESPN&#8217;s fielding stats, Ichiro led all AL outfielders last year in total chances and putouts.  Unfortunately, the data for the Cameron years wasn&#8217;t available.  Having Ichiro in right field lets the Ms take advantage of both his range and his arm.  Moreover, his (and Winn&#8217;s) range lets them get away with playing Reed in center.</p>
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		<title>By: Tangotiger</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/03/01/position-roundtables-right-field/comment-page-2/#comment-17423</link>
		<dc:creator>Tangotiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 21:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2291#comment-17423</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s possible that Ichiro changes his approach at bat.

Overall, his K/BB with no one on is 135/60, but with runners on, it&#039;s 59/93 !!  That&#039;s one remarkable shift.  With guys on 1B only, it&#039;s 28/14, meaning an even more astounding 31/79 with RISP.

Anyway, focus on Ichiro&#039;s stats when he makes contact and it&#039;s not a HR:
with men on 1B only, its 89 hits on 285 contact in-park PA, for an average of .312.  His overall average is .361.  So, still a discrepancy, but not so bad.  A 49 point difference based on 285 PA is only 2 standard deviations away.  Well within the realm of luck.

I think the most likely explanation is:
1 - Ichiro completely changes his approach to hitting with runners in scoring position
2 - Any other difference is probably luck

Tom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s possible that Ichiro changes his approach at bat.</p>
<p>Overall, his K/BB with no one on is 135/60, but with runners on, it&#8217;s 59/93 !!  That&#8217;s one remarkable shift.  With guys on 1B only, it&#8217;s 28/14, meaning an even more astounding 31/79 with RISP.</p>
<p>Anyway, focus on Ichiro&#8217;s stats when he makes contact and it&#8217;s not a HR:<br />
with men on 1B only, its 89 hits on 285 contact in-park PA, for an average of .312.  His overall average is .361.  So, still a discrepancy, but not so bad.  A 49 point difference based on 285 PA is only 2 standard deviations away.  Well within the realm of luck.</p>
<p>I think the most likely explanation is:<br />
1 &#8211; Ichiro completely changes his approach to hitting with runners in scoring position<br />
2 &#8211; Any other difference is probably luck</p>
<p>Tom</p>
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		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/03/01/position-roundtables-right-field/comment-page-2/#comment-17418</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2291#comment-17418</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link. More telling than comparing runners on is comparing RISP: he&#039;s .359 with RISP, .289 with 1B only. Is there anything else that would account for that sort of discrepancy, except that he&#039;s hitting into a bunch of FCs with an out at second, when he has a runner on 1st?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link. More telling than comparing runners on is comparing RISP: he&#8217;s .359 with RISP, .289 with 1B only. Is there anything else that would account for that sort of discrepancy, except that he&#8217;s hitting into a bunch of FCs with an out at second, when he has a runner on 1st?</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Buergel</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/03/01/position-roundtables-right-field/comment-page-2/#comment-17417</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Buergel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2291#comment-17417</guid>
		<description>OK, here are Ichiro&#039;s three-year splits (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits3?statsId=6615&amp;type=batting):

None on:  .341/.372/.454
On 1st (only):  .289/.323./.356
Runners on:  .326/.409/.408

So, yes, Ichiro has performed worse with a single runner on first over the past three years.  That&#039;s also true in his most recent year.  The stats appear to back up the observation that Ichiro is not at his best with a single runner on.  For the record, according to data I pulled from Retrosheet for the AL 1981-1990, the average hitter gets a bump of 4.3% in their batting average with a runner on first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, here are Ichiro&#8217;s three-year splits (<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits3?statsId=6615&#038;type=batting" rel="nofollow">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits3?statsId=6615&#038;type=batting</a>):</p>
<p>None on:  .341/.372/.454<br />
On 1st (only):  .289/.323./.356<br />
Runners on:  .326/.409/.408</p>
<p>So, yes, Ichiro has performed worse with a single runner on first over the past three years.  That&#8217;s also true in his most recent year.  The stats appear to back up the observation that Ichiro is not at his best with a single runner on.  For the record, according to data I pulled from Retrosheet for the AL 1981-1990, the average hitter gets a bump of 4.3% in their batting average with a runner on first.</p>
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		<title>By: Tangotiger</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/03/01/position-roundtables-right-field/comment-page-2/#comment-17408</link>
		<dc:creator>Tangotiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2291#comment-17408</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s funny is that Derek ended the piece above by saying &quot;it has no chance&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s funny is that Derek ended the piece above by saying &#8220;it has no chance&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Tangotiger</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/03/01/position-roundtables-right-field/comment-page-2/#comment-17407</link>
		<dc:creator>Tangotiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2291#comment-17407</guid>
		<description>DMZ: I&#039;m surprised by your comment in #59.

One of your best pieces ever:
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1599&amp;mode=print&amp;nocache=1109777561

Couldn&#039;t I have said: &quot;MLB teams don&#039;t want revenue sharing, so there won&#039;t be real revenue sharing, so that puts a damper on my interest and general speculation...&quot;

In every interesting unpaid analysis that is done, the value is not in the destination, but in the journey.  It&#039;s what you learn, what information you use, how you use it.  It&#039;s the whole framework of how to think, and what to look for.

Everything baseball analysis we do and write is completely trivial and meaningless.  But, it&#039;s fun, and that&#039;s why some of us speculate on the Ichiro move, and how you can learn something from it.  It&#039;s irrelevant if the destination of Ichiro being in CF is remote.  The journey itself is fun.

This also doesn&#039;t stop people from debating Ruth, Williams, and Bonds, even though their playing conditions have changed drastically.

I agree with the other poster that without conjecture, blogs would lose some of their huge appeal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DMZ: I&#8217;m surprised by your comment in #59.</p>
<p>One of your best pieces ever:<br />
<a href="http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1599&#038;mode=print&#038;nocache=1109777561" rel="nofollow">http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1599&#038;mode=print&#038;nocache=1109777561</a></p>
<p>Couldn&#8217;t I have said: &#8220;MLB teams don&#8217;t want revenue sharing, so there won&#8217;t be real revenue sharing, so that puts a damper on my interest and general speculation&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>In every interesting unpaid analysis that is done, the value is not in the destination, but in the journey.  It&#8217;s what you learn, what information you use, how you use it.  It&#8217;s the whole framework of how to think, and what to look for.</p>
<p>Everything baseball analysis we do and write is completely trivial and meaningless.  But, it&#8217;s fun, and that&#8217;s why some of us speculate on the Ichiro move, and how you can learn something from it.  It&#8217;s irrelevant if the destination of Ichiro being in CF is remote.  The journey itself is fun.</p>
<p>This also doesn&#8217;t stop people from debating Ruth, Williams, and Bonds, even though their playing conditions have changed drastically.</p>
<p>I agree with the other poster that without conjecture, blogs would lose some of their huge appeal.</p>
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