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	<title>Comments on: Portrait of the pitcher as a young man</title>
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	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/08/04/portrait-of-the-pitcher-as-a-young-man/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/08/04/portrait-of-the-pitcher-as-a-young-man/comment-page-2/#comment-55633</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2005 04:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2844#comment-55633</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re overrating Burnett&#039;s talent and underrating his bad mechanics.  Burnett is a high risk arm.  He&#039;s got just as good of a chance to be the next Darren Dreifort as he does to help the team that signs him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re overrating Burnett&#8217;s talent and underrating his bad mechanics.  Burnett is a high risk arm.  He&#8217;s got just as good of a chance to be the next Darren Dreifort as he does to help the team that signs him.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/08/04/portrait-of-the-pitcher-as-a-young-man/comment-page-2/#comment-55466</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Aug 2005 18:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2844#comment-55466</guid>
		<description>I do think that the Sabathia idea would a good one.  I also think that Daisuke Matsuzaka would be an option well worth looking into.  If the M&#039;s could take some steps to make sure that his arm is sound, he could be a great addition.  However, both of these options depend a lot on other teams, and I think that the M&#039;s will need to go to free agency to add at least one starter.  

As several people have pointed out, the free agent market will be pretty thin this year.  Perhaps Dave is right, and AJ Burnett might command $$$ in the $13 mil/year neighborhood.  I don&#039;t think that teams will go beyond 4 years, though.  Although the market did go crazy last year, with mediocre pitchers getting a lot of cash, teams haven&#039;t seemed willing to go beyond 3-4 years with pitchers.  This is good.  

If the M&#039;s have to decide between Kevin Millwood, or perhaps Matt Morris, at 4 years, $40 mil, and Burnett for 4 years, $52 mil, I still think that you would have to consider Burnett.  Millwood and Morris have had issues in the past, and neither is a real, dominant ace pitcher.  With Burnett, you are getting a guy who can throw in the mid- to upper-90s and strike out more than a guy per inning.  Morris and Millwood are both good pitchers, but they just don&#039;t have dominant stuff.  As mentioned above, and in a really good article at Baseball Analysts, groundball tendencies plus strikeouts is a recipe for success, and Burnett has that.  Millwood is a flyball pitcher, and Safeco will help him.  Morris is having a good year, but he doesn&#039;t miss many bats either.  Morris and Millwood are both good #2 or #3 pitchers.  Burnett is an ace.  

I think that Burnett, even with his injury issues, is worth $3 mil/year more than Millwood or Morris.  Burnett has a lot more upside.  He is a guy who could win a Cy Young.  In the playoffs, he is the type of dominant ace that you need.  I think that that is worth a little extra cash.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think that the Sabathia idea would a good one.  I also think that Daisuke Matsuzaka would be an option well worth looking into.  If the M&#8217;s could take some steps to make sure that his arm is sound, he could be a great addition.  However, both of these options depend a lot on other teams, and I think that the M&#8217;s will need to go to free agency to add at least one starter.  </p>
<p>As several people have pointed out, the free agent market will be pretty thin this year.  Perhaps Dave is right, and AJ Burnett might command $$$ in the $13 mil/year neighborhood.  I don&#8217;t think that teams will go beyond 4 years, though.  Although the market did go crazy last year, with mediocre pitchers getting a lot of cash, teams haven&#8217;t seemed willing to go beyond 3-4 years with pitchers.  This is good.  </p>
<p>If the M&#8217;s have to decide between Kevin Millwood, or perhaps Matt Morris, at 4 years, $40 mil, and Burnett for 4 years, $52 mil, I still think that you would have to consider Burnett.  Millwood and Morris have had issues in the past, and neither is a real, dominant ace pitcher.  With Burnett, you are getting a guy who can throw in the mid- to upper-90s and strike out more than a guy per inning.  Morris and Millwood are both good pitchers, but they just don&#8217;t have dominant stuff.  As mentioned above, and in a really good article at Baseball Analysts, groundball tendencies plus strikeouts is a recipe for success, and Burnett has that.  Millwood is a flyball pitcher, and Safeco will help him.  Morris is having a good year, but he doesn&#8217;t miss many bats either.  Morris and Millwood are both good #2 or #3 pitchers.  Burnett is an ace.  </p>
<p>I think that Burnett, even with his injury issues, is worth $3 mil/year more than Millwood or Morris.  Burnett has a lot more upside.  He is a guy who could win a Cy Young.  In the playoffs, he is the type of dominant ace that you need.  I think that that is worth a little extra cash.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/08/04/portrait-of-the-pitcher-as-a-young-man/comment-page-2/#comment-55461</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Aug 2005 06:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2844#comment-55461</guid>
		<description>Well, I missed the Sabathia extension. My bad for the incorrect information on that.

I still wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t be surprised if they moved him, though. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I missed the Sabathia extension. My bad for the incorrect information on that.</p>
<p>I still wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t be surprised if they moved him, though.</p>
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		<title>By: eli</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/08/04/portrait-of-the-pitcher-as-a-young-man/comment-page-2/#comment-55256</link>
		<dc:creator>eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2005 22:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2844#comment-55256</guid>
		<description>peter - i like the use of joyce&#039;s famous first lines... nice touch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>peter &#8211; i like the use of joyce&#8217;s famous first lines&#8230; nice touch.</p>
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		<title>By: msb</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/08/04/portrait-of-the-pitcher-as-a-young-man/comment-page-2/#comment-55250</link>
		<dc:creator>msb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2005 22:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2844#comment-55250</guid>
		<description>

Jerry said:&quot;The C.C. Sabathia notion is pretty interesting one. It never crossed my mind that the Indians would think about moving him. That said, I can understand the Freddy Garcia comparison. I hate to say this, since I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know the guy, but Sabathia kinda seems like a punk. The hat sideways thing, the baggy pants, the clear lack of conditioning: he just strikes me as a guy who is pissing away a lot of talent.&quot;

see if these make you feel better:

http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports/11224567494180.xml?s5tri&amp;coll=2

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2047624 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry said:&#8221;The C.C. Sabathia notion is pretty interesting one. It never crossed my mind that the Indians would think about moving him. That said, I can understand the Freddy Garcia comparison. I hate to say this, since I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know the guy, but Sabathia kinda seems like a punk. The hat sideways thing, the baggy pants, the clear lack of conditioning: he just strikes me as a guy who is pissing away a lot of talent.&#8221;</p>
<p>see if these make you feel better:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports/11224567494180.xml?s5tri&#038;coll=2" rel="nofollow">http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports/11224567494180.xml?s5tri&#038;coll=2</a></p>
<p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2047624" rel="nofollow">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2047624</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve Thornton</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/08/04/portrait-of-the-pitcher-as-a-young-man/comment-page-2/#comment-55233</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Thornton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2005 21:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2844#comment-55233</guid>
		<description>FYI, Felix&#039;s nickname at Baseball Prospectus is apparently &quot;                   &quot;, as he appears sinisterly with no name in their list of Rookie Pitchers by VORP report. Which report he currently stands 32nd on, with 1.3 VORP in his 5 innings. That&#039;s well behind Harris, a tad behind Sherrill, tied with Campillo, and well ahead of Thornton and and Nageotte. These numbers are of course immensely valuable, coming as they do for all but Thornton in a tiny sample. Look for Felix to climb this chart rapidly. I doubt he has time to move past the leader, Toronto&#039;s Gustavo Chacin, before the end of the season, but you never know. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI, Felix&#8217;s nickname at Baseball Prospectus is apparently &#8221;                   &#8220;, as he appears sinisterly with no name in their list of Rookie Pitchers by VORP report. Which report he currently stands 32nd on, with 1.3 VORP in his 5 innings. That&#8217;s well behind Harris, a tad behind Sherrill, tied with Campillo, and well ahead of Thornton and and Nageotte. These numbers are of course immensely valuable, coming as they do for all but Thornton in a tiny sample. Look for Felix to climb this chart rapidly. I doubt he has time to move past the leader, Toronto&#8217;s Gustavo Chacin, before the end of the season, but you never know.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/08/04/portrait-of-the-pitcher-as-a-young-man/comment-page-2/#comment-55199</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2844#comment-55199</guid>
		<description>The C.C. Sabathia notion is pretty interesting one.  It never crossed my mind that the Indians would think about moving him.  That said, I can understand the Freddy Garcia comparison.  I hate to say this, since I don&#039;t know the guy, but Sabathia kinda seems like a punk.  The hat sideways thing, the baggy pants, the clear lack of conditioning: he just strikes me as a guy who is pissing away a lot of talent.  

That said, he is a guy who could be a steal if he puts it all together.  I wonder what it would take to land a guy like that?  Adam Jones, Bobby Livingston, and a lesser prospect?  Interesting.  

Hey Dave, 

Two questions:

-Has there been any word on Daisuke Matsuzaka and the chances that he will be posted?  I think that he would be a worthy risk.  If he passes a rigorous physical, it would be a good way to add a good young pitcher without spending a whole lot of money (at least, money that counts toward the payroll) or giving up draft picks.  

-Any other starters that might be on the block?  I wouldn&#039;t be suprised to see Zito get moved while his value is high.  Kerry Wood might be available if anyone would want him.  Any other ideas?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The C.C. Sabathia notion is pretty interesting one.  It never crossed my mind that the Indians would think about moving him.  That said, I can understand the Freddy Garcia comparison.  I hate to say this, since I don&#8217;t know the guy, but Sabathia kinda seems like a punk.  The hat sideways thing, the baggy pants, the clear lack of conditioning: he just strikes me as a guy who is pissing away a lot of talent.  </p>
<p>That said, he is a guy who could be a steal if he puts it all together.  I wonder what it would take to land a guy like that?  Adam Jones, Bobby Livingston, and a lesser prospect?  Interesting.  </p>
<p>Hey Dave, </p>
<p>Two questions:</p>
<p>-Has there been any word on Daisuke Matsuzaka and the chances that he will be posted?  I think that he would be a worthy risk.  If he passes a rigorous physical, it would be a good way to add a good young pitcher without spending a whole lot of money (at least, money that counts toward the payroll) or giving up draft picks.  </p>
<p>-Any other starters that might be on the block?  I wouldn&#8217;t be suprised to see Zito get moved while his value is high.  Kerry Wood might be available if anyone would want him.  Any other ideas?</p>
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		<title>By: IgnatiusReilly</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/08/04/portrait-of-the-pitcher-as-a-young-man/comment-page-2/#comment-55186</link>
		<dc:creator>IgnatiusReilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2005 19:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2844#comment-55186</guid>
		<description>&quot;should do their usual thorough job of evaluating his health and mechanics.&quot;

*snicker*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;should do their usual thorough job of evaluating his health and mechanics.&#8221;</p>
<p>*snicker*</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly M</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/08/04/portrait-of-the-pitcher-as-a-young-man/comment-page-2/#comment-55185</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2005 19:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2844#comment-55185</guid>
		<description>Sabathia&#039;s performance this year has been a real shock. I tried, but failed, to get him on my fantasy teams when I drafted. I thought he had an easy shot at winning 15-20 and having a real breakout year. I&#039;m sure the Cleveland guys have to be extremely frustrated. 

An additional concern is that pitching a full year at his current weight might be doing something to his mechanics, e.g., damaging his elbow, shoulder, knee, back, etc. 

If the Ms try to get him they should do their usual thorough job of evaluating his health and mechanics so he doesn&#039;t end up on the DL. I&#039;ve seen other clubs really take a step backwards when their pitchers get hurt. We don&#039;t need that kind of bad luck around here, let me tell you. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sabathia&#8217;s performance this year has been a real shock. I tried, but failed, to get him on my fantasy teams when I drafted. I thought he had an easy shot at winning 15-20 and having a real breakout year. I&#8217;m sure the Cleveland guys have to be extremely frustrated. </p>
<p>An additional concern is that pitching a full year at his current weight might be doing something to his mechanics, e.g., damaging his elbow, shoulder, knee, back, etc. </p>
<p>If the Ms try to get him they should do their usual thorough job of evaluating his health and mechanics so he doesn&#8217;t end up on the DL. I&#8217;ve seen other clubs really take a step backwards when their pitchers get hurt. We don&#8217;t need that kind of bad luck around here, let me tell you.</p>
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		<title>By: Rain Delay</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/08/04/portrait-of-the-pitcher-as-a-young-man/comment-page-2/#comment-55178</link>
		<dc:creator>Rain Delay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2005 19:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=2844#comment-55178</guid>
		<description>This may sound a bit to early to say, but how much money do you think the Mariners will have to spend on making improvements? 

I mean we have some young talent but do we wait and see what they can do or play the market for another power bat.

I would rather see Bavasi spend the money to make improvements to the rotation and have the young players try their stuff next year..and see where it goes from there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may sound a bit to early to say, but how much money do you think the Mariners will have to spend on making improvements? </p>
<p>I mean we have some young talent but do we wait and see what they can do or play the market for another power bat.</p>
<p>I would rather see Bavasi spend the money to make improvements to the rotation and have the young players try their stuff next year..and see where it goes from there.</p>
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