Comments on: Bronson Arroyo http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/19/bronson-arroyo/ Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:10:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Tim from Boston http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/19/bronson-arroyo/comment-page-4/#comment-84123 Tim from Boston Fri, 23 Dec 2005 03:11:12 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3210#comment-84123 Well it's either going to be Arroyo or Matt Clement. Clement is like a Jason Johnson though. Well until he took a line drive to the head. Well it’s either going to be Arroyo or Matt Clement. Clement is like a Jason Johnson though. Well until he took a line drive to the head.

]]> By: Hurt http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/19/bronson-arroyo/comment-page-4/#comment-83578 Hurt Tue, 20 Dec 2005 07:14:22 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3210#comment-83578 <i>yeah, and that fact has so much to do with Bavasi’s baseball acumen.</i> Well, I had ment that point as a humorous quip, but point taken. Not that you brought up reason he SHOULD paid to be a scout other than he likes baseball or as he said in 2000 . . . <i>"I told them I shouldn't be a scout," Lander says of that first call from Bavasi and Fontaine in 1997. "I knew what I thought a scout should be, and I didn't think I had it."</i> Please forgive my ignorance. But also, please inform me of the name of the scout that suggested Speizio and Olivio and I'll insult them instead. yeah, and that fact has so much to do with Bavasi’s baseball acumen.

Well, I had ment that point as a humorous quip, but point taken.

Not that you brought up reason he SHOULD paid to be a scout other than he likes baseball or as he said in 2000 . . .

“I told them I shouldn’t be a scout,” Lander says of that first call from Bavasi and Fontaine in 1997. “I knew what I thought a scout should be, and I didn’t think I had it.”

Please forgive my ignorance.

But also, please inform me of the name of the scout that suggested Speizio and Olivio and I’ll insult them instead.

]]> By: Tom http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/19/bronson-arroyo/comment-page-4/#comment-83573 Tom Tue, 20 Dec 2005 06:34:55 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3210#comment-83573 If the M's don't have another OF on speed-dial like Kenny Lofton, Preston Wilson, or Jaque Jones, then I don't approve of a Reed-Arroyo trade. If the M’s don’t have another OF on speed-dial like Kenny Lofton, Preston Wilson, or Jaque Jones, then I don’t approve of a Reed-Arroyo trade.

]]> By: msb http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/19/bronson-arroyo/comment-page-4/#comment-83552 msb Tue, 20 Dec 2005 05:51:44 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3210#comment-83552 #171-- "he has hired Squiggy TWICE as a scout." yeah, and that fact has so much to do with Bavasi's baseball acumen. Bavasi got scout credentials (unpaid, mind you) for a baseball-smart friend (who is a former AAA-team owner, btw) -- one who at the time he first hired him was trying to deal with the loss of acting work due to his Multiple Sclerosis... #171– “he has hired Squiggy TWICE as a scout.”

yeah, and that fact has so much to do with Bavasi’s baseball acumen.

Bavasi got scout credentials (unpaid, mind you) for a baseball-smart friend (who is a former AAA-team owner, btw) — one who at the time he first hired him was trying to deal with the loss of acting work due to his Multiple Sclerosis…

]]> By: James T http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/19/bronson-arroyo/comment-page-4/#comment-83533 James T Tue, 20 Dec 2005 04:33:21 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3210#comment-83533 I wonder if Doug Melvin doesn't at least take a look at the SABR perspective on things. He was part of the Red Sox front office in 2002 and must have been exposed to that perspective on things. I really wonder if even the most outspokenly old school GM's don't have a guy somewhere in a back room crunching numbers 24/7 for them while they drawl out paeans to scouts. I wonder if Doug Melvin doesn’t at least take a look at the SABR perspective on things. He was part of the Red Sox front office in 2002 and must have been exposed to that perspective on things.

I really wonder if even the most outspokenly old school GM’s don’t have a guy somewhere in a back room crunching numbers 24/7 for them while they drawl out paeans to scouts.

]]> By: Hurt http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/19/bronson-arroyo/comment-page-4/#comment-83527 Hurt Tue, 20 Dec 2005 03:57:45 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3210#comment-83527 <i>Actually, Mevlin’s one of the best GMs in the game, and he’s done a fantastic job in Milwaukee.</i> Agreed. But he and his right hand man Gord Ash would never in a million years be accused of using a SABR approach. But they rely heavily on gb/fb stats for their pitching staff. I think Bavasi leans more on his father's legacy for his baseball education and what is, is what is. Period. He knows, you don't. He has hired Squiggy TWICE as a scout. Does Dan Evans have any input in the front office at all, or do I overvalue his job with the Dodgers? Actually, Mevlin’s one of the best GMs in the game, and he’s done a fantastic job in Milwaukee.

Agreed.

But he and his right hand man Gord Ash would never in a million years be accused of using a SABR approach. But they rely heavily on gb/fb stats for their pitching staff.

I think Bavasi leans more on his father’s legacy for his baseball education and what is, is what is. Period. He knows, you don’t.

He has hired Squiggy TWICE as a scout.

Does Dan Evans have any input in the front office at all, or do I overvalue his job with the Dodgers?

]]> By: James T http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/19/bronson-arroyo/comment-page-4/#comment-83522 James T Tue, 20 Dec 2005 03:52:42 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3210#comment-83522 Dave. I think you're cheating on the statistics, yourself, when you say that the rates quoted by typical idiot fan are only 50 ip and are misleading. He apparently quoted only the major league numbers in Pittsburgh in 2002 (27 ip) and Boston in 2003 (17.1 ip). In 2003, Arroyo was a starter in Pawtucket and, as I noted earlier, struck out 155 batters in 149.2 ip, a rate of 9.3 batters per 9 ip. Again, is that so incongruous with his rate of 7.1 per 9 ip in the majors in 2004? Dave. I think you’re cheating on the statistics, yourself, when you say that the rates quoted by typical idiot fan are only 50 ip and are misleading.

He apparently quoted only the major league numbers in Pittsburgh in 2002 (27 ip) and Boston in 2003 (17.1 ip).

In 2003, Arroyo was a starter in Pawtucket and, as I noted earlier, struck out 155 batters in 149.2 ip, a rate of 9.3 batters per 9 ip. Again, is that so incongruous with his rate of 7.1 per 9 ip in the majors in 2004?

]]> By: Dave http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/19/bronson-arroyo/comment-page-4/#comment-83519 Dave Tue, 20 Dec 2005 03:44:41 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3210#comment-83519 Actually, Mevlin's one of the best GMs in the game, and he's done a fantastic job in Milwaukee. Actually, Mevlin’s one of the best GMs in the game, and he’s done a fantastic job in Milwaukee.

]]> By: Hurt http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/19/bronson-arroyo/comment-page-4/#comment-83518 Hurt Tue, 20 Dec 2005 03:42:00 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3210#comment-83518 <i>The problem isn’t that Bavasi doesn’t know that this kind of analysis exists. He just values it less than we do. Given his history in scouting and player development, that is unlikely to change. As long as the organization values their scouts opinions of a player’s mental toughness over performance, we’ll have these kind of problems.</i> The Brewers are another team with and "old school" GM, who values scouts opinions more than stats and when Washburn expressed interest at giving the Brewers a "hometown" discount, Doug Melvin told Boras "No Thanks". Having a "old school" GM isn't a death sentence. Having the WRONG one is. If only we could get that "gamer" Craig Counsell and his two World Series rings, then the clubhouse would gel and they would win!! Who belives this stuff? The problem isn’t that Bavasi doesn’t know that this kind of analysis exists. He just values it less than we do. Given his history in scouting and player development, that is unlikely to change. As long as the organization values their scouts opinions of a player’s mental toughness over performance, we’ll have these kind of problems.

The Brewers are another team with and “old school” GM, who values scouts opinions more than stats and when Washburn expressed interest at giving the Brewers a “hometown” discount, Doug Melvin told Boras “No Thanks”.

Having a “old school” GM isn’t a death sentence. Having the WRONG one is.

If only we could get that “gamer” Craig Counsell and his two World Series rings, then the clubhouse would gel and they would win!!

Who belives this stuff?

]]> By: Dave http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/19/bronson-arroyo/comment-page-4/#comment-83513 Dave Tue, 20 Dec 2005 03:15:42 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3210#comment-83513 2002 and 2003 combine for about 50 innings out of the bullpen. By not including IP or role, the line is massively misleading. Minor League K rates are significantly higher than major league K rates. Arroyo's minor league strikeout rate basically translates to about 5.7 in the majors, which is about his career average. 2002 and 2003 combine for about 50 innings out of the bullpen. By not including IP or role, the line is massively misleading.

Minor League K rates are significantly higher than major league K rates. Arroyo’s minor league strikeout rate basically translates to about 5.7 in the majors, which is about his career average.

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