Comments on: Papelbon and Lester http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/29/papelbon-and-lester/ Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:41:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: amarshal2 http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/29/papelbon-and-lester/comment-page-6/#comment-85369 amarshal2 Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:06:32 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3234#comment-85369 It would seem this is all possibly irrelevant: "A reliable source told me today about a three-way deal that is "imminent." It's always risky to throw around "imminent," but I'm just quoting him here. Here's the scenario: BOS gives: Bronson Arroyo, Tony Graffanino, PTBNL BOS gets: Jeremy Reed, Will Ohman CHC gives: Corey Patterson, Ohman CHC gets: Raul Ibanez, Graffanino, cash SEA gives: Reed, Ibanez, cash SEA gets: Arroyo, Patterson, PTBNL" http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ I hope you guys are right about Reed and wrong about Lester/Papelbon! It would seem this is all possibly irrelevant:

“A reliable source told me today about a three-way deal that is “imminent.” It’s always risky to throw around “imminent,” but I’m just quoting him here.

Here’s the scenario:

BOS gives: Bronson Arroyo, Tony Graffanino, PTBNL

BOS gets: Jeremy Reed, Will Ohman

CHC gives: Corey Patterson, Ohman

CHC gets: Raul Ibanez, Graffanino, cash

SEA gives: Reed, Ibanez, cash

SEA gets: Arroyo, Patterson, PTBNL”

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

I hope you guys are right about Reed and wrong about Lester/Papelbon!

]]> By: amarshal2 http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/29/papelbon-and-lester/comment-page-6/#comment-85361 amarshal2 Wed, 04 Jan 2006 18:42:01 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3234#comment-85361 "So the approx 5th to 7th best SP prospect in baseball isn’t special?" "See, this is my point. The fact that you guys feel that these guys are in the top 5-7 pitching prospects in the game is why I posted this in the first place. Verlander, Liriano, Cain, Billingsley, Olsen, Reyes, and Diamond are all clearly preferable to Lester or Papelbon in my book. They aren’t even close to the top 5, who are a big step ahead of everyone else. What’s the difference between Papelbon and Jonathan Broxton (besides 100 pounds) or Fernando Nieve? Or Lester and Cesar Carillo? Or, even though he’s not my favorite, how about Yusmeiro Petit?" -you know who. At the very least, "aren't even close" is way, way off. “So the approx 5th to 7th best SP prospect in baseball isn’t special?”

“See, this is my point. The fact that you guys feel that these guys are in the top 5-7 pitching prospects in the game is why I posted this in the first place. Verlander, Liriano, Cain, Billingsley, Olsen, Reyes, and Diamond are all clearly preferable to Lester or Papelbon in my book. They aren’t even close to the top 5, who are a big step ahead of everyone else. What’s the difference between Papelbon and Jonathan Broxton (besides 100 pounds) or Fernando Nieve? Or Lester and Cesar Carillo? Or, even though he’s not my favorite, how about Yusmeiro Petit?”
-you know who.

At the very least, “aren’t even close” is way, way off.

]]> By: amarshal2 http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/29/papelbon-and-lester/comment-page-6/#comment-85357 amarshal2 Wed, 04 Jan 2006 18:34:41 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3234#comment-85357 I’m working on my Top 50 for the Prospect Handbook right now; the book goes to press Friday and will be in stores in late February, a month earlier than last year, and we’re excited about that. I had Billinglsey, Verlander, Cain, Liriano in that order, and that order changes almost daily with the exception of Billingsley staying at the top. I really believe in him as a pitcher. In fact, last night, I had Liriano ahead of Cain, but I need to re-adjust that! For me, Lester actually heads the next group that also includes Joel Zumaya, Anthony Reyes, Scott Olsen and Adam Loewen. It’s a relatively thin crop of elite pitchers in the top 50/100 right now. -John Manuel I’m working on my Top 50 for the Prospect Handbook right now; the book goes to press Friday and will be in stores in late February, a month earlier than last year, and we’re excited about that. I had Billinglsey, Verlander, Cain, Liriano in that order, and that order changes almost daily with the exception of Billingsley staying at the top. I really believe in him as a pitcher. In fact, last night, I had Liriano ahead of Cain, but I need to re-adjust that! For me, Lester actually heads the next group that also includes Joel Zumaya, Anthony Reyes, Scott Olsen and Adam Loewen. It’s a relatively thin crop of elite pitchers in the top 50/100 right now.
-John Manuel

]]> By: vj http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/29/papelbon-and-lester/comment-page-6/#comment-85084 vj Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:48:11 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3234#comment-85084 #258 - Dave in Palo Alto: Nice Pilots reference right there! #258 – Dave in Palo Alto: Nice Pilots reference right there!

]]> By: BelaXadux http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/29/papelbon-and-lester/comment-page-6/#comment-85071 BelaXadux Sat, 31 Dec 2005 07:18:37 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3234#comment-85071 *zzzz-qhrrk!* Whazzat?? Was I operating my keyboard in m' sleep again? Mus' 'member to lock the keypad, those numbersssz, bite back. Where wass I? . . . Tis a thin Reed *yawn* . . . th' counts fer naught, 'causse . . . *THUNK* *zzzzzzz* *zzzz-qhrrk!* Whazzat?? Was I operating my keyboard in m’ sleep again? Mus’ ‘member to lock the keypad, those numbersssz, bite back.

Where wass I? . . . Tis a thin Reed *yawn* . . . th’ counts fer naught, ‘causse . . . *THUNK* *zzzzzzz*

]]> By: BoSoxJro http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/29/papelbon-and-lester/comment-page-6/#comment-85060 BoSoxJro Sat, 31 Dec 2005 02:54:13 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3234#comment-85060 Every good point I make against what your saying seems to get deleted, but here goes... Baseball perspectives comparibles are generally off. Ive seena couple that just make me laugh actually, but you also have to consider there are very few pitchers who have had a career like Arroyo. When he was very young he got rushed by the Pirates and wasnt a very effective pitcher, then he chnaged his pitching approach and has become a very effective pitcher. Also, Im not going to argue about value anymore. You guys severely overvalue Reed and undervalue Paps and Lester, while we probably overvalue Pap and Lester. I think here we value our prospects more because of a new philosophy our organization has. Someone was arguing that Paps and Lester arent as good as Felix which was out of the blue because that was never brought up. Also, Franklin was horrible the last two years in a pitchers ballpark and he was on Roids. Arroyo has better periphs than him for sure. Also, you guys have had a solid bullpen for the last couple years while ours is full of underacheiving bums. Every good point I make against what your saying seems to get deleted, but here goes…

Baseball perspectives comparibles are generally off. Ive seena couple that just make me laugh actually, but you also have to consider there are very few pitchers who have had a career like Arroyo. When he was very young he got rushed by the Pirates and wasnt a very effective pitcher, then he chnaged his pitching approach and has become a very effective pitcher. Also, Im not going to argue about value anymore. You guys severely overvalue Reed and undervalue Paps and Lester, while we probably overvalue Pap and Lester. I think here we value our prospects more because of a new philosophy our organization has. Someone was arguing that Paps and Lester arent as good as Felix which was out of the blue because that was never brought up. Also, Franklin was horrible the last two years in a pitchers ballpark and he was on Roids. Arroyo has better periphs than him for sure. Also, you guys have had a solid bullpen for the last couple years while ours is full of underacheiving bums.

]]> By: LF Monster http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/29/papelbon-and-lester/comment-page-6/#comment-85059 LF Monster Sat, 31 Dec 2005 02:10:57 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3234#comment-85059 Good luck to Olivo! I'd like the idea of acquiring Arroyo if it were not at the cost of Reed. Maybe if it were for Edgar Martinez as well. Good luck to Olivo!

I’d like the idea of acquiring Arroyo if it were not at the cost of Reed. Maybe if it were for Edgar Martinez as well.

]]> By: chrisisasavage http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/29/papelbon-and-lester/comment-page-6/#comment-85058 chrisisasavage Sat, 31 Dec 2005 02:04:13 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3234#comment-85058 #273, I suspect that is in part from a lack of MLB playing time. Of course Arroyo only has a couple years as a starter, so I don't want to infer too much from those years. I'll give his supporters this, his '04 self (I meant '04 in post #261) he's not so bad, but I wouldn't trade a good defensive CF for him when we don't have one. The way I look at it is we A.) don't trade him and have a hole at one of our rotation sports OR B.) we do and tack a quarter to half a run to all of our pitchers ERA's. #273, I suspect that is in part from a lack of MLB playing time. Of course Arroyo only has a couple years as a starter, so I don’t want to infer too much from those years. I’ll give his supporters this, his ’04 self (I meant ’04 in post #261) he’s not so bad, but I wouldn’t trade a good defensive CF for him when we don’t have one. The way I look at it is we A.) don’t trade him and have a hole at one of our rotation sports OR B.) we do and tack a quarter to half a run to all of our pitchers ERA’s.

]]> By: Jim Thomsen http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/29/papelbon-and-lester/comment-page-6/#comment-85056 Jim Thomsen Sat, 31 Dec 2005 01:53:22 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3234#comment-85056 #268: Then again, Jeremy Reed's comps don't look too good, either. And I say this as a big Jeremy Reed supporter. #268: Then again, Jeremy Reed’s comps don’t look too good, either. And I say this as a big Jeremy Reed supporter.

]]> By: chrisisasavage http://www.ussmariner.com/2005/12/29/papelbon-and-lester/comment-page-6/#comment-85055 chrisisasavage Sat, 31 Dec 2005 01:53:10 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=3234#comment-85055 I don't like BBRefs comps to be honest, PECOTA is better. I'd like to see his comps when the '06 PECOTA is available. His '05 comps aren't terrible like BB Refs current Comps. Hence the FWIW at the end of my post. I agree though Lilly is a good comp, which is not a good thing in my book. I don’t like BBRefs comps to be honest, PECOTA is better. I’d like to see his comps when the ’06 PECOTA is available. His ’05 comps aren’t terrible like BB Refs current Comps. Hence the FWIW at the end of my post. I agree though Lilly is a good comp, which is not a good thing in my book.

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