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	<title>Comments on: You said the union forever</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: davepaisley</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-102591</link>
		<dc:creator>davepaisley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 May 2006 02:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/#comment-102591</guid>
		<description>My answer was code for &quot;yes&quot;, in response to:

&quot;IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m sure no one wanted to know that, but.&quot;

as in, &quot;but... as I&#039;m from the communist, self-absorbed, verbal diarrhea capital of Washington, I&#039;m going to tell you anyway.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My answer was code for &#8220;yes&#8221;, in response to:</p>
<p>&#8220;IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m sure no one wanted to know that, but.&#8221;</p>
<p>as in, &#8220;but&#8230; as I&#8217;m from the communist, self-absorbed, verbal diarrhea capital of Washington, I&#8217;m going to tell you anyway.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: BelaXadux</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-102583</link>
		<dc:creator>BelaXadux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 May 2006 02:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/#comment-102583</guid>
		<description>Figured it was over your head, but.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Figured it was over your head, but.</p>
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		<title>By: davepaisley</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-102523</link>
		<dc:creator>davepaisley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 May 2006 21:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/#comment-102523</guid>
		<description>Way to get down with your bad blue-collar self...

I prefer Larry the Cable Guy&#039;s spin on it to be honest. And it has the added bonus of being a few shades more intelligible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Way to get down with your bad blue-collar self&#8230;</p>
<p>I prefer Larry the Cable Guy&#8217;s spin on it to be honest. And it has the added bonus of being a few shades more intelligible.</p>
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		<title>By: BelaXadux</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-102333</link>
		<dc:creator>BelaXadux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 May 2006 02:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/#comment-102333</guid>
		<description>Equating any form or worker organization or solidarity with communism is standard variety red-baiting where it isn&#039;t simple ignorance.  

Communism is, in essence, worker ownership of the state in a context of class struggle against entrenched capital and property ownership monopolization.  No significant faction has advocated for this at any time in American history, in significant part because land ownership has been sufficiently diversified that a reactionary lane-monopolizing minority never developed here.  

Socialism is worker ownership of, if not capital, than primary labor employers in a context of class struggle against capital owners.  Some have advocated this in American history, but capital owners have a great deal of advantages, and more to the point most workers would (secretly, really) prefer to be capital owners if only they could get rich enough, so support for this has a fairly low ceiling on it.  Democratic socialism advocates a worker influenced state managing state influenced capital utilization.  That became the real goal of labor organization in the US, and while never fully implemented, because the worker influenced state was transitory if it ever existed, it remains the goal of nearly all organized labor here at this time.  

Anarcho-syndicalism argures for collective labor enterprises in a context of communal struggle against entrenched power, whether political, economic, or military power.  This flavor actually has the best resonance with American political economy, but for various reasons its growth was initially abortive.  Actually, the initial organization of the MLBPA is quite a good example of anarcho-syndicalism.  That organization was a collective resistance against the power of ownership backed up by the power of the state which tacitly upheld the &#039;reserve clause.&#039;  The result was a syndicate controling prevailing labor conditions, but one in which individual players were free to contract for the best terms they could secure.  . . . Which also shows the weakness of anarcho-syndicalism in that it its collective structures tend to be under-developed, and anyway shades quickly over to right wing entrenched entitlement guild-ism.  

I&#039;m sure no one wanted to know that, but.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Equating any form or worker organization or solidarity with communism is standard variety red-baiting where it isn&#8217;t simple ignorance.  </p>
<p>Communism is, in essence, worker ownership of the state in a context of class struggle against entrenched capital and property ownership monopolization.  No significant faction has advocated for this at any time in American history, in significant part because land ownership has been sufficiently diversified that a reactionary lane-monopolizing minority never developed here.  </p>
<p>Socialism is worker ownership of, if not capital, than primary labor employers in a context of class struggle against capital owners.  Some have advocated this in American history, but capital owners have a great deal of advantages, and more to the point most workers would (secretly, really) prefer to be capital owners if only they could get rich enough, so support for this has a fairly low ceiling on it.  Democratic socialism advocates a worker influenced state managing state influenced capital utilization.  That became the real goal of labor organization in the US, and while never fully implemented, because the worker influenced state was transitory if it ever existed, it remains the goal of nearly all organized labor here at this time.  </p>
<p>Anarcho-syndicalism argures for collective labor enterprises in a context of communal struggle against entrenched power, whether political, economic, or military power.  This flavor actually has the best resonance with American political economy, but for various reasons its growth was initially abortive.  Actually, the initial organization of the MLBPA is quite a good example of anarcho-syndicalism.  That organization was a collective resistance against the power of ownership backed up by the power of the state which tacitly upheld the &#8216;reserve clause.&#8217;  The result was a syndicate controling prevailing labor conditions, but one in which individual players were free to contract for the best terms they could secure.  . . . Which also shows the weakness of anarcho-syndicalism in that it its collective structures tend to be under-developed, and anyway shades quickly over to right wing entrenched entitlement guild-ism.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure no one wanted to know that, but.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Rust</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-102249</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Rust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 22:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/#comment-102249</guid>
		<description>If you call someone a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=scab&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;despicable person&lt;/a&gt; that&#039;s hardly value-neutral.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you call someone a <a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=scab" rel="nofollow">despicable person</a> that&#8217;s hardly value-neutral.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-102236</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 22:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/#comment-102236</guid>
		<description>23 - That&#039;s only because you&#039;ve inferred meaning beyond the label of &quot;scab&quot;.  It&#039;s simply a name - names are value-neutral.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://idealreason.blogspot.com/2006/05/implication.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;More on Inference&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>23 &#8211; That&#8217;s only because you&#8217;ve inferred meaning beyond the label of &#8220;scab&#8221;.  It&#8217;s simply a name &#8211; names are value-neutral.</p>
<p><a href="http://idealreason.blogspot.com/2006/05/implication.html" rel="nofollow">More on Inference</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brian Rust</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-102224</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Rust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 21:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/#comment-102224</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Derek.  It just so happened that I was re-reading &quot;The Grapes of Wrath&quot; last month at exactly the moment the immigration issue grabbed the national attention.  The whole &quot;us versus them&quot; theme REALLY jumped out at me.  It was eerie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Derek.  It just so happened that I was re-reading &#8220;The Grapes of Wrath&#8221; last month at exactly the moment the immigration issue grabbed the national attention.  The whole &#8220;us versus them&#8221; theme REALLY jumped out at me.  It was eerie.</p>
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		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-102222</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 21:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/#comment-102222</guid>
		<description>I honestly have no idea what you mean by any of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I honestly have no idea what you mean by any of that.</p>
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		<title>By: jloris</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-102220</link>
		<dc:creator>jloris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 21:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/#comment-102220</guid>
		<description>Offended, DMZ?  No.  Let down, disgusted, disappointed -- those are more appropriate words.  When I see &quot;scab&quot;, it&#039;s just another sad reminder that I&#039;m living in a country that buys tripe like &quot;they hate us for our freedom&quot;.  What offends me is when thugs either a.) Don&#039;t know they&#039;re thugs, or b.) Try to disguise their thuggery with, &quot;It&#039;s for the children/people/workers/freedom/earth/everything -- you&#039;re against children/people/workers/freedom/earth/everything if you don&#039;t agree with us!&quot;.

If I had my own blog, I&#039;d just say, &quot;You&#039;re wrong, folks. The means *are* the end.&quot;  But that would just be smug.

I should know better.  It&#039;s really my fault for selecting that link.  I couldn&#039;t help it -- I dug the White Stripes reference!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Offended, DMZ?  No.  Let down, disgusted, disappointed &#8212; those are more appropriate words.  When I see &#8220;scab&#8221;, it&#8217;s just another sad reminder that I&#8217;m living in a country that buys tripe like &#8220;they hate us for our freedom&#8221;.  What offends me is when thugs either a.) Don&#8217;t know they&#8217;re thugs, or b.) Try to disguise their thuggery with, &#8220;It&#8217;s for the children/people/workers/freedom/earth/everything &#8212; you&#8217;re against children/people/workers/freedom/earth/everything if you don&#8217;t agree with us!&#8221;.</p>
<p>If I had my own blog, I&#8217;d just say, &#8220;You&#8217;re wrong, folks. The means *are* the end.&#8221;  But that would just be smug.</p>
<p>I should know better.  It&#8217;s really my fault for selecting that link.  I couldn&#8217;t help it &#8212; I dug the White Stripes reference!</p>
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		<title>By: msb</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-102219</link>
		<dc:creator>msb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 21:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/04/the-union-forever/#comment-102219</guid>
		<description>it&#039;s not an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-03.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;anarcho-syndicalist commune?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s not an <a href="http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-03.htm" rel="nofollow">anarcho-syndicalist commune?</a></p>
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