This is a .500 team that’s underachieved

If you mean they’ve underachieved their record vs their run differential, sure, a little. But if you mean compared to preseason expectations, I’d say they’ve overachieved: who, apart from Dave, thought it was likely that the Mariners would have a positive run differential at all?

But is it a flawed team? Honestly, every team in this league is flawed (e.g. the Yankees’ terrible starting pitching, the A’s schizo offense, the Royals’ upper management). You can’t just look at the M’s and say, “They’re flawed,” because that’s like saying that trees are plants. DUH.

Come on. It’s pretty obvious that they Mariners are more flawed than the Yankees. As you say, DUH.

All I’m saying is that it’s a bit silly to talk about “heart” outside the context of the M’s level of ability. Maybe the Yankees, say, have more heart, but they definitely have more talent, and that’s making more of a difference, I think.

Wouldn’t, say, a 115 degree heat index warrent moving a game scheduled for the peak of the heat to perhaps earlier in the day?

This is a .500 team that’s underachieved and has been poorly managed. But is it a flawed team? Honestly, every team in this league is flawed (e.g. the Yankees’ terrible starting pitching, the A’s schizo offense, the Royals’ upper management). You can’t just look at the M’s and say, “They’re flawed,” because that’s like saying that trees are plants. DUH.

The thing is, if the M’s are still within 5 of first in September 1, they can still win the pennant by winning every September series and sweeping the A’s and Angels once each. That’s a .600 clip, thereinabout. Can this team play .600 ball? Possibly. I think the chances are there. You just need three strong starts out of Moyer/Felix/(Washburn|Meche|Pineiro) and the hitters to hit. But to get there they need to play .500 ball first.

It’s not impossible that the M’s will win the division. It’s unlikely, but the chances of it happening are exponentially greater than they were on August 2, 2004 or August 2, 2005.

In reality, that’s total BS, because if he could, then he should. But he doesn’t because he can’t.

I believe there is such a thing as chemistry – enjoying being around your teammates, having fun at work, whatever. But it tends to lag performance. It occurs naturally in a positive environment and disappears when things turn bad.

This team appears to have positive chemistry as a .500 team because even .500 is over-achieving, hence a positive, for this year at least.

I’m saying it’s easy to win when there isn’t as much on the line. The Mariners have enough talent to win, but not enough heart to win when it starts to really matter.

Yes, I understood what you were saying, and it doesn’t make any more sense when you repeat it. When a team starts falling out of the race but hasn’t fallen out of it, there’s more on the line. When you’re in last five games back and the season is starting to slip away, those games are must-wins. That the Mariners keep clawing their way back in the race despite their deficiencies and their manager is evidence that they do have heart. You expect them to sustain runs like a .600 team? They just aren’t. That’s not heart, that’s talent.

I don’t know these guys. You don’t know these guys. We don’t have the faintest idea what kind of “heart” or “character” or “chemistry” is operating on this team. We talk about stuff like that because it’s a natural human tendency to make story out of every sequence of events. When we try to crawl into their minds, we’re just guessing. It seems to me a lot more useful to say, This is a flawed team with a badly flawed manager that is playing better than we thought they would, playing their way into the fringe of a pennant race in August, but that shouldn’t surprise anyone if they are simply not quite good enough to get the job done, no matter how much they want it, no matter how gritty they are, no matter how much heart they have.

You can say that again…

If we can’t hit Lopez, imagine what the white hot Erik Bedard does to us.

12:05 game, perfect for work listening.

Because shut outs only count as one loss.