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	<title>Comments on: Leadership deceived</title>
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	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: terry</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/comment-page-3/#comment-134328</link>
		<dc:creator>terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 22:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/#comment-134328</guid>
		<description>Just looking at the fangraph data, he&#039;s basically always been an extreme flyball pitcher.  Interestingly, his HR/FB has always been at least league average or like this year, significantly lower than league average (I guess thats expected for a reliever).  Basically just looking at his rate stats, the only thing that jumps out is a career high LD% of 25 which seem to be at the expense of his GB%.  I guess I&#039;m struggling to translate the rate stats into his awfulness if you just had the blind data without the nightly visual info.  Is the LD%-GB% flip-flop enough to signal this guy is a a pile of kindling this year versus say 2003?  I suppose if his K% and BB% were also shown, they&#039;d reflect trends in the wrong direction too.

Is it as simple as he is striking out less and walking more so he&#039;s struggling with command/velocity and this is translating into more hits (line drives)? This would conform with the BB&gt;K&gt;GO/FO theory of pitching. If so though, why aren&#039;t more balls leaving the yard?

Finally, on the field, what is going on?  Is everything basically slow and straight?

I know these are naive questions but they are honest ones.

Of ya, one final dumb question....  where can I find league average for all of the rate stats?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just looking at the fangraph data, he&#8217;s basically always been an extreme flyball pitcher.  Interestingly, his HR/FB has always been at least league average or like this year, significantly lower than league average (I guess thats expected for a reliever).  Basically just looking at his rate stats, the only thing that jumps out is a career high LD% of 25 which seem to be at the expense of his GB%.  I guess I&#8217;m struggling to translate the rate stats into his awfulness if you just had the blind data without the nightly visual info.  Is the LD%-GB% flip-flop enough to signal this guy is a a pile of kindling this year versus say 2003?  I suppose if his K% and BB% were also shown, they&#8217;d reflect trends in the wrong direction too.</p>
<p>Is it as simple as he is striking out less and walking more so he&#8217;s struggling with command/velocity and this is translating into more hits (line drives)? This would conform with the BB&gt;K&gt;GO/FO theory of pitching. If so though, why aren&#8217;t more balls leaving the yard?</p>
<p>Finally, on the field, what is going on?  Is everything basically slow and straight?</p>
<p>I know these are naive questions but they are honest ones.</p>
<p>Of ya, one final dumb question&#8230;.  where can I find league average for all of the rate stats?</p>
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		<title>By: The Unknown Comic</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/comment-page-3/#comment-134325</link>
		<dc:creator>The Unknown Comic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 20:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/#comment-134325</guid>
		<description>Bob Melvin gave much better post game interviews than Mike Hargrove. Losing under Melvin didn&#039;t hurt as much because Bob was such a nice guy you couldn&#039;t help but like him. For some reason Mike Hargrove just makes me mad as hell.



I have added my light to the glowing firmament of this discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob Melvin gave much better post game interviews than Mike Hargrove. Losing under Melvin didn&#8217;t hurt as much because Bob was such a nice guy you couldn&#8217;t help but like him. For some reason Mike Hargrove just makes me mad as hell.</p>
<p>I have added my light to the glowing firmament of this discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Wells</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/comment-page-3/#comment-134324</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 13:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/#comment-134324</guid>
		<description>At least David Andriesen of the P-I gets it -- this from his Mariner Notebook in Saturday&#039;s paper (he probably reads USSM): 

&quot;In a one-run game, the Mariners needed a double-play grounder to end the seventh inning, and instead got a three-run Michael Young double on Mateo&#039;s first pitch. Mateo wasn&#039;t terribly likely to get the rescue ground ball -- he has one of the lowest ground ball ratios in the American League -- but the two pitchers Hargrove would rather have used were unavailable.&quot;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/281071_mbok12.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mateo  wasn&#039;t terribly likely...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least David Andriesen of the P-I gets it &#8212; this from his Mariner Notebook in Saturday&#8217;s paper (he probably reads USSM): </p>
<p>&#8220;In a one-run game, the Mariners needed a double-play grounder to end the seventh inning, and instead got a three-run Michael Young double on Mateo&#8217;s first pitch. Mateo wasn&#8217;t terribly likely to get the rescue ground ball &#8212; he has one of the lowest ground ball ratios in the American League &#8212; but the two pitchers Hargrove would rather have used were unavailable.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/281071_mbok12.html" rel="nofollow">Mateo  wasn&#8217;t terribly likely&#8230;</a></p>
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		<title>By: BelaXadux</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/comment-page-3/#comment-134322</link>
		<dc:creator>BelaXadux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/#comment-134322</guid>
		<description>Playing time, honest explanations, and accountability are what players look to in their team exec.  If a manager was totally clueless and demonstrably uninvolved in in-game decisions, it would hurt, but that would be a clumsy wat to handle it.  The manager and his tactician should confer just like the manager and his pitching coach do now, but the tactitian then executes the call or substitution.  In the end, the tactitian and the coach are both accountable to the manager.  Not a problem.  But the two coaches would have to be able to work together, otherwise it&#039;s Dysfunction Junction.  A manager and his hitting coach can survive not being on speaking terms, but I wouldn&#039;t see two roles this close as playing that way.  Still, a really interesting idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Playing time, honest explanations, and accountability are what players look to in their team exec.  If a manager was totally clueless and demonstrably uninvolved in in-game decisions, it would hurt, but that would be a clumsy wat to handle it.  The manager and his tactician should confer just like the manager and his pitching coach do now, but the tactitian then executes the call or substitution.  In the end, the tactitian and the coach are both accountable to the manager.  Not a problem.  But the two coaches would have to be able to work together, otherwise it&#8217;s Dysfunction Junction.  A manager and his hitting coach can survive not being on speaking terms, but I wouldn&#8217;t see two roles this close as playing that way.  Still, a really interesting idea.</p>
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		<title>By: BelaXadux</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/comment-page-3/#comment-134321</link>
		<dc:creator>BelaXadux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/#comment-134321</guid>
		<description>And re:  Bill Bavasi, as I understood the deals this season Bavasi made the Perez deal, but Pelekoudas negotiated the Broussard deal.  Now that was from hints in the paper and such, and I don&#039;t know that I&#039;d weight the info too much since obviously they discussed together what was done, but . . .  One deal was good and reasonable, and one wasn&#039;t.  As throughout nearly his whole career, Bavasi&#039;s name is attached to the deal that wasn&#039;t.  

I&#039;m probably almost as tired saying that as Bill B. is hearing it, supposing that he hears it at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And re:  Bill Bavasi, as I understood the deals this season Bavasi made the Perez deal, but Pelekoudas negotiated the Broussard deal.  Now that was from hints in the paper and such, and I don&#8217;t know that I&#8217;d weight the info too much since obviously they discussed together what was done, but . . .  One deal was good and reasonable, and one wasn&#8217;t.  As throughout nearly his whole career, Bavasi&#8217;s name is attached to the deal that wasn&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m probably almost as tired saying that as Bill B. is hearing it, supposing that he hears it at all.</p>
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		<title>By: BelaXadux</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/comment-page-3/#comment-134320</link>
		<dc:creator>BelaXadux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/#comment-134320</guid>
		<description>And yes, that was how Torre and Zimmer worked it, and just another good example of how and why Torre was and is an outstanding manager.  By the time the Yanks gave him the hat, he had his ego under control, farmed out subtantial responsibilites entirely to able subordinates like his pitching coach, and concentrated on personnel management.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And yes, that was how Torre and Zimmer worked it, and just another good example of how and why Torre was and is an outstanding manager.  By the time the Yanks gave him the hat, he had his ego under control, farmed out subtantial responsibilites entirely to able subordinates like his pitching coach, and concentrated on personnel management.</p>
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		<title>By: BelaXadux</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/comment-page-3/#comment-134319</link>
		<dc:creator>BelaXadux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/#comment-134319</guid>
		<description>Re:  #34, splitting the manager&#039;s job responsibilities into two jobs:  Dave, that&#039;s an _excellent_ idea, one of the first really innovative ideas in baseball organization that I&#039;ve heard in years.  Particularly in the way that you present it, leadership in one position, strategy in another.  If we accept as we do now that pitching is a special responsibility which should have a dedicated coach, and that hitting is a special responsibility which should have a dedicated coach, it&#039;s but a small leap to accept that tactics and substitutions are together a special responsibility which should have a dedicated coach.  

It&#039;s so ingrained in baseball tradition that &#039;The Leader&#039; makes the tactical and strategic decisions that it&#039;s hard to see that management in general would be better if he handed those off.  The real and essential function of The Manager in the present day context is actually morale, man management, discipline, and above all ego management.  Sixty years ago, baseball players were working class stiffs who could be told what to do or replaced (supposedly); now, they&#039;re super-rich, super-famous celebrities around whose _personal_ names and personas many million dollar sports corporations have leveraged there profit-making strategies.  The manager&#039;s real responsilities are to build team and manage his people, and good manager&#039;s are often fairly good at this.  Finding one of those guys who&#039;s also a shrewd tactitician is a pretty tough call, especially since most managers are former ballplayers without a broadbased background in information management or data analysis.  Turning the bench coach into someone with actual tactical responsibility while having the manager be a team exec is A Really Good Idea.  Hmmmm.  

And I agree, in the offseason the Ms will go shopping for a marketable name to replace Hargrove.  That&#039;s how they operate, and why they got _him_.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  #34, splitting the manager&#8217;s job responsibilities into two jobs:  Dave, that&#8217;s an _excellent_ idea, one of the first really innovative ideas in baseball organization that I&#8217;ve heard in years.  Particularly in the way that you present it, leadership in one position, strategy in another.  If we accept as we do now that pitching is a special responsibility which should have a dedicated coach, and that hitting is a special responsibility which should have a dedicated coach, it&#8217;s but a small leap to accept that tactics and substitutions are together a special responsibility which should have a dedicated coach.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s so ingrained in baseball tradition that &#8216;The Leader&#8217; makes the tactical and strategic decisions that it&#8217;s hard to see that management in general would be better if he handed those off.  The real and essential function of The Manager in the present day context is actually morale, man management, discipline, and above all ego management.  Sixty years ago, baseball players were working class stiffs who could be told what to do or replaced (supposedly); now, they&#8217;re super-rich, super-famous celebrities around whose _personal_ names and personas many million dollar sports corporations have leveraged there profit-making strategies.  The manager&#8217;s real responsilities are to build team and manage his people, and good manager&#8217;s are often fairly good at this.  Finding one of those guys who&#8217;s also a shrewd tactitician is a pretty tough call, especially since most managers are former ballplayers without a broadbased background in information management or data analysis.  Turning the bench coach into someone with actual tactical responsibility while having the manager be a team exec is A Really Good Idea.  Hmmmm.  </p>
<p>And I agree, in the offseason the Ms will go shopping for a marketable name to replace Hargrove.  That&#8217;s how they operate, and why they got _him_.</p>
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		<title>By: davepaisley</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/comment-page-3/#comment-134039</link>
		<dc:creator>davepaisley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 00:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/#comment-134039</guid>
		<description>#103 - funny stuff. It cracked me up to think of Bavasi slipping in all those &quot;lol&quot;s...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#103 &#8211; funny stuff. It cracked me up to think of Bavasi slipping in all those &#8220;lol&#8221;s&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Thingray</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/comment-page-3/#comment-134019</link>
		<dc:creator>Thingray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 00:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/#comment-134019</guid>
		<description>Still, Grover will be the cause of me drinking many beers tonight!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still, Grover will be the cause of me drinking many beers tonight!</p>
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		<title>By: Thingray</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/comment-page-3/#comment-134017</link>
		<dc:creator>Thingray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 23:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/11/leadership-deceived/#comment-134017</guid>
		<description>Okay, you had me worried there for a minute pinball1973..

You sounded like I did when I blew a gasket about Bloomquist a week or two ago! Port Orchard was scared that day, I tell you..  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, you had me worried there for a minute pinball1973..</p>
<p>You sounded like I did when I blew a gasket about Bloomquist a week or two ago! Port Orchard was scared that day, I tell you..  <img src='http://www.ussmariner.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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