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	<title>Comments on: Looking Ahead: Jeff Clement</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: mlb2131</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/comment-page-3/#comment-139736</link>
		<dc:creator>mlb2131</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 03:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/#comment-139736</guid>
		<description>Like others, I also wonder if the promotion to Tacoma was not the correct move.  Mostly because it just doesn&#039;t seem to make sense after being out for 6 weeks to get promoted, especially after only 15 AA games.

Anyway, I think the focus (offense wise) should be on Clement&#039;s strong numbers in A and AA.  Additionally, don&#039;t forget that he posted pretty good numbers in the AFL last fall and he went 2-9 in spring training with a triple and a HR.  And of course you have the numbers from USC and 2 summers with Team USA as well.

He can rake.  There&#039;s no doubts there.  I think the time in Tacoma has been kind of rough due to the timing of the promotion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like others, I also wonder if the promotion to Tacoma was not the correct move.  Mostly because it just doesn&#8217;t seem to make sense after being out for 6 weeks to get promoted, especially after only 15 AA games.</p>
<p>Anyway, I think the focus (offense wise) should be on Clement&#8217;s strong numbers in A and AA.  Additionally, don&#8217;t forget that he posted pretty good numbers in the AFL last fall and he went 2-9 in spring training with a triple and a HR.  And of course you have the numbers from USC and 2 summers with Team USA as well.</p>
<p>He can rake.  There&#8217;s no doubts there.  I think the time in Tacoma has been kind of rough due to the timing of the promotion.</p>
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		<title>By: scraps</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/comment-page-3/#comment-139595</link>
		<dc:creator>scraps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 01:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/#comment-139595</guid>
		<description>Catcherwatcher, what is it that you think gives you credibility, outside your own head?  Since what you assert is opposed to the opinion of every educated watcher of the Mariner farm system, do you have anything at all to back up your opinion?  &quot;No doubt about it&quot; is just air; what &lt;i&gt;argument&lt;/i&gt; do you have to offer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Catcherwatcher, what is it that you think gives you credibility, outside your own head?  Since what you assert is opposed to the opinion of every educated watcher of the Mariner farm system, do you have anything at all to back up your opinion?  &#8220;No doubt about it&#8221; is just air; what <i>argument</i> do you have to offer?</p>
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		<title>By: dw</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/comment-page-3/#comment-139593</link>
		<dc:creator>dw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 01:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/#comment-139593</guid>
		<description>I believe Quiroz is the best catcher in the entire Mariners system.

How can I say this? Because I have seen a baseball game. That gives me CREDIBILITY. 

Also, I am UNBIASED.

And my opinion is BETTER than yours. I can see things with my own EYES.

QED.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe Quiroz is the best catcher in the entire Mariners system.</p>
<p>How can I say this? Because I have seen a baseball game. That gives me CREDIBILITY. </p>
<p>Also, I am UNBIASED.</p>
<p>And my opinion is BETTER than yours. I can see things with my own EYES.</p>
<p>QED.</p>
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		<title>By: The Ancient Mariner</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/comment-page-3/#comment-139591</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ancient Mariner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 01:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/#comment-139591</guid>
		<description>Oh, of course, you can post anything you want.  &lt;i&gt;That&lt;/i&gt; is not under question.

And you declaring yourself unbiased is not evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, of course, you can post anything you want.  <i>That</i> is not under question.</p>
<p>And you declaring yourself unbiased is not evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: catcherwatcher</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/comment-page-3/#comment-139588</link>
		<dc:creator>catcherwatcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/#comment-139588</guid>
		<description>#100...AND as I have told you- I am not biased one bit...I do believe this is a sight in which one may post their imput with freedom. You sir or madam, are obviously calling yourself &quot;ancient&quot; for a reason ...I am not sure whether you have even seen a Rainiers game, much less Johnson and Clement play in person, SO...you may want to do that before you harp on me. &quot;Ancient Mariner&quot;, basing your opinion by simply checking their website does not give you CREDIBILITY.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#100&#8230;AND as I have told you- I am not biased one bit&#8230;I do believe this is a sight in which one may post their imput with freedom. You sir or madam, are obviously calling yourself &#8220;ancient&#8221; for a reason &#8230;I am not sure whether you have even seen a Rainiers game, much less Johnson and Clement play in person, SO&#8230;you may want to do that before you harp on me. &#8220;Ancient Mariner&#8221;, basing your opinion by simply checking their website does not give you CREDIBILITY.</p>
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		<title>By: darrylzero</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/comment-page-3/#comment-139583</link>
		<dc:creator>darrylzero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/#comment-139583</guid>
		<description>Bela, I agree 102 was a little harsh, but you did sort of skirt the point.  If the purpose is to make these players fail, regroup, and be stronger for it in the long run, then I&#039;d say Lopez is a decent example of that strategy succeeding.  So far.  You make it sound like the point is that Lopez wasn&#039;t ready, while it&#039;s been clearly stated that promotions before hitters are ready is exactly the intention.  And Lopez bounced back pretty nicely, it would seem.  Right?  Clement and Jones may too.  Right?  In which case, all you can say is that, &quot;yep, they struggled because they were promoted so aggressively.&quot;  Which isn&#039;t an argument against Bavasi&#039;s strategy; it&#039;s part of his strategy.

Your whole post, really, has the same problem.  You point out situations in which players weren&#039;t ready as if they&#039;re proof that Bavasi&#039;s strategy is stupid, or that he actually has no strategy, that he is just following his whimsy.  But if Bavasi&#039;s strategy is to promote hitters while they aren&#039;t ready to help them understand and overcome failure, all your examples say is, &quot;yep, that&#039;s Bavasi&#039;s strategy.&quot;  Your post is internally inconsistent and doesn&#039;t take on Bavasi&#039;s strategy on its own terms at all.  And you get to claim that your critic there &quot;didn&#039;t comprehend it?&quot;  I don&#039;t know...

I&#039;m not defending the strategy; I don&#039;t claim to know how to handle these things. And, in spite of that, the aggressive promotions manage to make me pretty nervous, too.  But your examples aren&#039;t examples of Bavasi&#039;s strategy failing, so you can probably lay off the snipe a little.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bela, I agree 102 was a little harsh, but you did sort of skirt the point.  If the purpose is to make these players fail, regroup, and be stronger for it in the long run, then I&#8217;d say Lopez is a decent example of that strategy succeeding.  So far.  You make it sound like the point is that Lopez wasn&#8217;t ready, while it&#8217;s been clearly stated that promotions before hitters are ready is exactly the intention.  And Lopez bounced back pretty nicely, it would seem.  Right?  Clement and Jones may too.  Right?  In which case, all you can say is that, &#8220;yep, they struggled because they were promoted so aggressively.&#8221;  Which isn&#8217;t an argument against Bavasi&#8217;s strategy; it&#8217;s part of his strategy.</p>
<p>Your whole post, really, has the same problem.  You point out situations in which players weren&#8217;t ready as if they&#8217;re proof that Bavasi&#8217;s strategy is stupid, or that he actually has no strategy, that he is just following his whimsy.  But if Bavasi&#8217;s strategy is to promote hitters while they aren&#8217;t ready to help them understand and overcome failure, all your examples say is, &#8220;yep, that&#8217;s Bavasi&#8217;s strategy.&#8221;  Your post is internally inconsistent and doesn&#8217;t take on Bavasi&#8217;s strategy on its own terms at all.  And you get to claim that your critic there &#8220;didn&#8217;t comprehend it?&#8221;  I don&#8217;t know&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not defending the strategy; I don&#8217;t claim to know how to handle these things. And, in spite of that, the aggressive promotions manage to make me pretty nervous, too.  But your examples aren&#8217;t examples of Bavasi&#8217;s strategy failing, so you can probably lay off the snipe a little.</p>
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		<title>By: BelaXadux</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/comment-page-3/#comment-139579</link>
		<dc:creator>BelaXadux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/#comment-139579</guid>
		<description>102, it&#039;s patently obvious you didn&#039;t bother to read the post, or less charitably didn&#039;t comprehend it if you did.  Care to try again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>102, it&#8217;s patently obvious you didn&#8217;t bother to read the post, or less charitably didn&#8217;t comprehend it if you did.  Care to try again?</p>
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		<title>By: Newby</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/comment-page-3/#comment-139578</link>
		<dc:creator>Newby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/#comment-139578</guid>
		<description>really, jose is an example of a guy that didn&#039;t work out?  seems to me he worked through the struggle and played pretty good this year.  The aggresivness isn&#039;t about immediate success, its about having these guys fail then come be able to come back stronger.  Lopez worked out, jones and clement are to early to tell, as they were moved up this year.  

Learn commen sense before you bad mouth people that are actually succesful in life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>really, jose is an example of a guy that didn&#8217;t work out?  seems to me he worked through the struggle and played pretty good this year.  The aggresivness isn&#8217;t about immediate success, its about having these guys fail then come be able to come back stronger.  Lopez worked out, jones and clement are to early to tell, as they were moved up this year.  </p>
<p>Learn commen sense before you bad mouth people that are actually succesful in life.</p>
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		<title>By: BelaXadux</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/comment-page-3/#comment-139566</link>
		<dc:creator>BelaXadux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 04:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/#comment-139566</guid>
		<description>On Clement, good to hear that his D is coming a long; that&#039;s been a major issue in seeing where he slots into the org&#039;s future.  He just doesn&#039;t seem a nimble enough athlete that he&#039;s ever going to excell behind the plate, but he looks like he could be decent, and you say he&#039;s on track for that.  No Victor Martinez type who&#039;ll kill the team back there until he&#039;s moved, so good.  When I look at his swing and approach, what _I_ see is Troy Glaus from the left side.  Maybe a little more contact, but the rest the same.  That&#039;s pretty decent at any position, but especially sweet as a LH bat behind the dish.  

Re:  &#039;aggressive development,&#039; I think Bavasi&#039;s idea could, in principle be sound---but the way he and the org uses it demonstrates such very poor judgment that it&#039;s not an idea or philosophy or method, it&#039;s just a slogan for what they want to do anyway.  Travis Blackley, Clint Nageotte, and Matt Thornton were manifestly not ready the first time they were put on the 25-man; their control was terrible in both cases, due to injury for Clint and Travis evidently, and the promotion&#039;s were patently bad ideas.  Jose Lopez was coming off an 6-week injury last year and _not_ ready the firt time he was brought up in July.  Clement was coming of a 6-week injury this year, and while it may have _seemed_ reasonable to promote him we see the result.  Matt Tui was manifestly NOT ready to be pushed up to AA this year.  Adam Jones was manifestly not ready for Seattle.  In essence, Bill B. and the team have been way wrong far too often for me to trust their judgment in any way at this point.  The assessments are faulty, not the players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Clement, good to hear that his D is coming a long; that&#8217;s been a major issue in seeing where he slots into the org&#8217;s future.  He just doesn&#8217;t seem a nimble enough athlete that he&#8217;s ever going to excell behind the plate, but he looks like he could be decent, and you say he&#8217;s on track for that.  No Victor Martinez type who&#8217;ll kill the team back there until he&#8217;s moved, so good.  When I look at his swing and approach, what _I_ see is Troy Glaus from the left side.  Maybe a little more contact, but the rest the same.  That&#8217;s pretty decent at any position, but especially sweet as a LH bat behind the dish.  </p>
<p>Re:  &#8216;aggressive development,&#8217; I think Bavasi&#8217;s idea could, in principle be sound&#8212;but the way he and the org uses it demonstrates such very poor judgment that it&#8217;s not an idea or philosophy or method, it&#8217;s just a slogan for what they want to do anyway.  Travis Blackley, Clint Nageotte, and Matt Thornton were manifestly not ready the first time they were put on the 25-man; their control was terrible in both cases, due to injury for Clint and Travis evidently, and the promotion&#8217;s were patently bad ideas.  Jose Lopez was coming off an 6-week injury last year and _not_ ready the firt time he was brought up in July.  Clement was coming of a 6-week injury this year, and while it may have _seemed_ reasonable to promote him we see the result.  Matt Tui was manifestly NOT ready to be pushed up to AA this year.  Adam Jones was manifestly not ready for Seattle.  In essence, Bill B. and the team have been way wrong far too often for me to trust their judgment in any way at this point.  The assessments are faulty, not the players.</p>
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		<title>By: The Ancient Mariner</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/comment-page-2/#comment-139432</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ancient Mariner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 03:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/25/looking-ahead-jeff-clement/#comment-139432</guid>
		<description>And I&#039;m telling you -- as I&#039;ve told you before -- that you&#039;re so obviously and flamingly biased, you have zero credibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I&#8217;m telling you &#8212; as I&#8217;ve told you before &#8212; that you&#8217;re so obviously and flamingly biased, you have zero credibility.</p>
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