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	<title>Comments on: Game 139, Mariners at Tigers</title>
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	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/comment-page-7/#comment-142846</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/#comment-142846</guid>
		<description>No they don&#039;t.

But they should.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No they don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>But they should.</p>
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		<title>By: Typical Idiot Fan</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/comment-page-7/#comment-142830</link>
		<dc:creator>Typical Idiot Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 08:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/#comment-142830</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;There are no unwritten rules that need to be governed by the umpires.,&lt;/em&gt;

And they maintain consistent strikezones too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>There are no unwritten rules that need to be governed by the umpires.,</em></p>
<p>And they maintain consistent strikezones too.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/comment-page-7/#comment-142829</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 06:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/#comment-142829</guid>
		<description>The Marlins probably would have made a big deal out of it, but I&#039;d be totally on Byrnes&#039;s side.  The shortstop flubbed the play, and the official scorer either called it an error or awarded the hit (probably called it an error).

But the rules of any game need to be enforced consistently, and one of them clearly describes un what circumstances the batter is out.  And that wasn&#039;t one of them.

There are no unwritten rules that need to be governed by the umpires.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Marlins probably would have made a big deal out of it, but I&#8217;d be totally on Byrnes&#8217;s side.  The shortstop flubbed the play, and the official scorer either called it an error or awarded the hit (probably called it an error).</p>
<p>But the rules of any game need to be enforced consistently, and one of them clearly describes un what circumstances the batter is out.  And that wasn&#8217;t one of them.</p>
<p>There are no unwritten rules that need to be governed by the umpires.</p>
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		<title>By: Typical Idiot Fan</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/comment-page-7/#comment-142827</link>
		<dc:creator>Typical Idiot Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 05:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/#comment-142827</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;For what its worth, TIF, I think youâ€™re a smart guy, and youâ€™ve added a lot to the comments the past couple of years.

And I think youâ€™re so far off base that I canâ€™t even comprehend the fact that youâ€™re serious.&lt;/em&gt;

I want to make something clear before I continue:  what I am harping about isn&#039;t that Byrnes didn&#039;t do what he thought was right nor do I think he didn&#039;t do something we all would have done in his place.  The original comment was that the play looked closer then some thought and that Byrnes might have been safe.  My original comment was that, if I was the umpire, I&#039;d still have called him out on a close play.  Unless it was 100% clear he was safe, even going up to the imagined &quot;tie goes to the runner&quot; bit, he&#039;s out.  Now I realize that sounds stupid, but the play shouldn&#039;t have been that close to begin with.

I&#039;ve been embracing statistical analysis and scouting reports since soon after I came here, but this is still a game with human beings; human beings with passion.  I am one of these and there are certain things that irritate me to no end about the game.  People pitching our guys inside while we don&#039;t do the same thing irritates me.  Dropping a bunt during the late innings of a perfect game, breaking it up, irritates me.  Showing up my team&#039;s pitcher after a homerun irritates me.  Believing in &quot;clutch hitting&quot; irritates me.  Rally Monkies irritate me.  

If I were Anibal Sanchez and Eric Byrnes legging out an infield hit on a routine groundball broke up my no hitter at the 8 2/3rds inning point, then I&#039;d drill him upside the head next time I faced him.  That&#039;s just how I&#039;d do it.  If he rolled that pitch through the hole between short and third, I would tip my cap to him and lament my horrible luck.  Squeezing out a cheap basehit when you&#039;re the last at bat of a no hitter just doesn&#039;t sit well with me.  There will be other times, other places where doing that are good and damned well appropriate.  I just don&#039;t think it was right there.

This is all moot since he was out, but if he was ruled safe, would it have been a bigger deal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>For what its worth, TIF, I think youâ€™re a smart guy, and youâ€™ve added a lot to the comments the past couple of years.</p>
<p>And I think youâ€™re so far off base that I canâ€™t even comprehend the fact that youâ€™re serious.</em></p>
<p>I want to make something clear before I continue:  what I am harping about isn&#8217;t that Byrnes didn&#8217;t do what he thought was right nor do I think he didn&#8217;t do something we all would have done in his place.  The original comment was that the play looked closer then some thought and that Byrnes might have been safe.  My original comment was that, if I was the umpire, I&#8217;d still have called him out on a close play.  Unless it was 100% clear he was safe, even going up to the imagined &#8220;tie goes to the runner&#8221; bit, he&#8217;s out.  Now I realize that sounds stupid, but the play shouldn&#8217;t have been that close to begin with.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been embracing statistical analysis and scouting reports since soon after I came here, but this is still a game with human beings; human beings with passion.  I am one of these and there are certain things that irritate me to no end about the game.  People pitching our guys inside while we don&#8217;t do the same thing irritates me.  Dropping a bunt during the late innings of a perfect game, breaking it up, irritates me.  Showing up my team&#8217;s pitcher after a homerun irritates me.  Believing in &#8220;clutch hitting&#8221; irritates me.  Rally Monkies irritate me.  </p>
<p>If I were Anibal Sanchez and Eric Byrnes legging out an infield hit on a routine groundball broke up my no hitter at the 8 2/3rds inning point, then I&#8217;d drill him upside the head next time I faced him.  That&#8217;s just how I&#8217;d do it.  If he rolled that pitch through the hole between short and third, I would tip my cap to him and lament my horrible luck.  Squeezing out a cheap basehit when you&#8217;re the last at bat of a no hitter just doesn&#8217;t sit well with me.  There will be other times, other places where doing that are good and damned well appropriate.  I just don&#8217;t think it was right there.</p>
<p>This is all moot since he was out, but if he was ruled safe, would it have been a bigger deal?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/comment-page-7/#comment-142825</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 03:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/#comment-142825</guid>
		<description>For what its worth, TIF, I think you&#039;re a smart guy, and you&#039;ve added a lot to the comments the past couple of years.

And I think you&#039;re so far off base that I can&#039;t even comprehend the fact that you&#039;re serious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what its worth, TIF, I think you&#8217;re a smart guy, and you&#8217;ve added a lot to the comments the past couple of years.</p>
<p>And I think you&#8217;re so far off base that I can&#8217;t even comprehend the fact that you&#8217;re serious.</p>
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		<title>By: JI</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/comment-page-7/#comment-142821</link>
		<dc:creator>JI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 02:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/#comment-142821</guid>
		<description>I disagree for a fewons:

1) The pitcher shouldn&#039;t have his not hitter handed to him on a silver platter. Why didn&#039;t the Cardinals show some class the other day and intentionally whiff and go down 1-2-3 to give Ortiz his no-no, it is a meaningless game, right?

2) If Byrnes reaches it brings the Tying Run to the plate.

3) The Marlins are in a pennant race, somewhere in the Unwritten Rules there is a chapter that covers not lying down v. contending teams.

4) It is Brynes porigitive to reach base anyway he can, he has every right to his damnest to succeed any he can. It diminishes to no-hit effort if he is trying to *help* the pitcher succeed.

5) Since when is it wrong to try and beat a grounder out?... especially in a close game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree for a fewons:</p>
<p>1) The pitcher shouldn&#8217;t have his not hitter handed to him on a silver platter. Why didn&#8217;t the Cardinals show some class the other day and intentionally whiff and go down 1-2-3 to give Ortiz his no-no, it is a meaningless game, right?</p>
<p>2) If Byrnes reaches it brings the Tying Run to the plate.</p>
<p>3) The Marlins are in a pennant race, somewhere in the Unwritten Rules there is a chapter that covers not lying down v. contending teams.</p>
<p>4) It is Brynes porigitive to reach base anyway he can, he has every right to his damnest to succeed any he can. It diminishes to no-hit effort if he is trying to *help* the pitcher succeed.</p>
<p>5) Since when is it wrong to try and beat a grounder out?&#8230; especially in a close game.</p>
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		<title>By: Typical Idiot Fan</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/comment-page-7/#comment-142816</link>
		<dc:creator>Typical Idiot Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 02:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/#comment-142816</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Wait, how does trying to get on base for you team make someone a jackass? Isnâ€™t that the goal of a major league baseball player?&lt;/em&gt;

Legging out an infield single on a routine groundball in the first inning is good, especially if you make it.

Legging out an infield single in a tight game on a routine groundball late in the game to give your team a chance to tie it is good, especially if you make it.

Legging out an infield single when you&#039;re the last at bat / out of a no hitter in the ninth inning where the chances of your team actually tying it are slim because the pitcher was performing well and the next hitter is Chad Tracy and his .277 / .337 / .433 line and 123 strikeouts in 135 games, twice that same ballgame, is next up to bat reeks of Byrnes deliberately NOT wanting to be the last out of the game more then &quot;giving his team a chance&quot;.

Mentioning the Brian Holman thing is ridiculous.  Holman lost his perfect game on a mistake pitch.  I have no problem with a clean basehit to break up a no hitter.  Using your hustle on a routine grounder to short to try to bust up the no hitter is crap.  If it had been a high chopper off the plate, or another type of &quot;excuse me&quot; single, I wouldn&#039;t care.  But he rolled it RIGHT TO the short stop!  You&#039;re out, Byrnes.  98.9% of the time you&#039;re out.  Jog to first and show some class.  Eat your lumps, bow to the pitcher, and go get &#039;em tomorrow.

I just don&#039;t like it.  The 2-0 score was irrelevant at the time.  The only thing that mattered by the time Byrnes came up to the plate was the no hitter.  There ARE unwritten rules of baseball, and that should be one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Wait, how does trying to get on base for you team make someone a jackass? Isnâ€™t that the goal of a major league baseball player?</em></p>
<p>Legging out an infield single on a routine groundball in the first inning is good, especially if you make it.</p>
<p>Legging out an infield single in a tight game on a routine groundball late in the game to give your team a chance to tie it is good, especially if you make it.</p>
<p>Legging out an infield single when you&#8217;re the last at bat / out of a no hitter in the ninth inning where the chances of your team actually tying it are slim because the pitcher was performing well and the next hitter is Chad Tracy and his .277 / .337 / .433 line and 123 strikeouts in 135 games, twice that same ballgame, is next up to bat reeks of Byrnes deliberately NOT wanting to be the last out of the game more then &#8220;giving his team a chance&#8221;.</p>
<p>Mentioning the Brian Holman thing is ridiculous.  Holman lost his perfect game on a mistake pitch.  I have no problem with a clean basehit to break up a no hitter.  Using your hustle on a routine grounder to short to try to bust up the no hitter is crap.  If it had been a high chopper off the plate, or another type of &#8220;excuse me&#8221; single, I wouldn&#8217;t care.  But he rolled it RIGHT TO the short stop!  You&#8217;re out, Byrnes.  98.9% of the time you&#8217;re out.  Jog to first and show some class.  Eat your lumps, bow to the pitcher, and go get &#8216;em tomorrow.</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t like it.  The 2-0 score was irrelevant at the time.  The only thing that mattered by the time Byrnes came up to the plate was the no hitter.  There ARE unwritten rules of baseball, and that should be one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Grizz</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/comment-page-7/#comment-142802</link>
		<dc:creator>Grizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 22:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/#comment-142802</guid>
		<description>Loki:  Oh yeah, even though their signings were only five years apart, the Olerud and Sexson signings arguably happened in two different eras.  $7 million per year was a lot in 1999; for example, &quot;Player of the Decade&quot; Ken Griffey Jr. made $8+ million in 1999. At the time, Olerud&#039;s contract represented the biggest free agent signing in M&#039;s history.  Olerud also signed the year before Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, and company reset the high end of the free agent market.  Since then, increased revenue sharing and MLB&#039;s overall success in adding new revenues (especially through MLB Advanced Media) have skewed the free agent market upward because now there are more teams with money to spend on free agents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loki:  Oh yeah, even though their signings were only five years apart, the Olerud and Sexson signings arguably happened in two different eras.  $7 million per year was a lot in 1999; for example, &#8220;Player of the Decade&#8221; Ken Griffey Jr. made $8+ million in 1999. At the time, Olerud&#8217;s contract represented the biggest free agent signing in M&#8217;s history.  Olerud also signed the year before Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, and company reset the high end of the free agent market.  Since then, increased revenue sharing and MLB&#8217;s overall success in adding new revenues (especially through MLB Advanced Media) have skewed the free agent market upward because now there are more teams with money to spend on free agents.</p>
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		<title>By: JI</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/comment-page-7/#comment-142799</link>
		<dc:creator>JI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/#comment-142799</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;with a .328 OBP in a hittersâ€™ park? No he isnâ€™t.&lt;/i&gt;

As long as he&#039;s playing CF, and slugging in the high 4s, sure he is. Not a long term solution, but a good stop-gap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>with a .328 OBP in a hittersâ€™ park? No he isnâ€™t.</i></p>
<p>As long as he&#8217;s playing CF, and slugging in the high 4s, sure he is. Not a long term solution, but a good stop-gap.</p>
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		<title>By: lokiforever</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/comment-page-7/#comment-142798</link>
		<dc:creator>lokiforever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/09/06/game-139-mariners-at-tigers/#comment-142798</guid>
		<description>Grizz - I didn&#039;t know that.  So it&#039;s more like a time warp, salary inflation, discount when compared with the Sexson contract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grizz &#8211; I didn&#8217;t know that.  So it&#8217;s more like a time warp, salary inflation, discount when compared with the Sexson contract.</p>
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