<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: 2006 Free Agent Signings</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:19:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Beamer</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/comment-page-2/#comment-161282</link>
		<dc:creator>John Beamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 10:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/#comment-161282</guid>
		<description>Also don&#039;t forget that capital appreciation of ball clubs also feeds into wages. 

According to Forbes (and who knows how reliable a source it is) capital appreciation has grown in-line with wages). MLBAM also has a considerable effect of the value of the clubs as it is owner my the clubs. Add in non MLBAM appreciation too and you can start to see where a lot of the new money is coming from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also don&#8217;t forget that capital appreciation of ball clubs also feeds into wages. </p>
<p>According to Forbes (and who knows how reliable a source it is) capital appreciation has grown in-line with wages). MLBAM also has a considerable effect of the value of the clubs as it is owner my the clubs. Add in non MLBAM appreciation too and you can start to see where a lot of the new money is coming from.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/comment-page-2/#comment-161252</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 02:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/#comment-161252</guid>
		<description>The chicken skewers weren&#039;t very good, btw, so I lose two ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The chicken skewers weren&#8217;t very good, btw, so I lose two ways.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tangotiger</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/comment-page-2/#comment-161240</link>
		<dc:creator>tangotiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/#comment-161240</guid>
		<description>Sure, none of us knows!  

Your numbers shows a 4% year over year, just based on MLBAM itself.  If you can believe they would have done 6% growth, excluding MLBAM, there&#039;s your 10% growth.  Certainly teams have been spending this year like they expect 10% growth.  

So, from 1985-2005, they actually have seen 10% growth.  Inflation is what, 3%?  MLBAM you say is 4%.  If all they get is a modest 3% over and above all this on their regular product, we continue with 10%.  At a pure minimum, using your numbers, it&#039;s 7%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, none of us knows!  </p>
<p>Your numbers shows a 4% year over year, just based on MLBAM itself.  If you can believe they would have done 6% growth, excluding MLBAM, there&#8217;s your 10% growth.  Certainly teams have been spending this year like they expect 10% growth.  </p>
<p>So, from 1985-2005, they actually have seen 10% growth.  Inflation is what, 3%?  MLBAM you say is 4%.  If all they get is a modest 3% over and above all this on their regular product, we continue with 10%.  At a pure minimum, using your numbers, it&#8217;s 7%.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/comment-page-2/#comment-161229</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/#comment-161229</guid>
		<description>I know that MLBAM expects to see 20-30% revenue growth at least through five years. So 2010, they&#039;d be taking in what, ~$800m+ in revenues. $500m more for 30 teams is $16m more a team/year, so that&#039;s what, a 20% payroll increase, total, over those five years? That&#039;s certainly not 10% year over year growth.

I probably just made some horrible math error: my chicken skewers are ready to come out of the oven, so I&#039;m rushing.

Doesn&#039;t matter. I&#039;m skeptical of MLBAM&#039;s ability so sustain that kind of growth that long, and baseball&#039;s ability to sustain revenue growth over the next decade. I don&#039;t know, certainly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that MLBAM expects to see 20-30% revenue growth at least through five years. So 2010, they&#8217;d be taking in what, ~$800m+ in revenues. $500m more for 30 teams is $16m more a team/year, so that&#8217;s what, a 20% payroll increase, total, over those five years? That&#8217;s certainly not 10% year over year growth.</p>
<p>I probably just made some horrible math error: my chicken skewers are ready to come out of the oven, so I&#8217;m rushing.</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t matter. I&#8217;m skeptical of MLBAM&#8217;s ability so sustain that kind of growth that long, and baseball&#8217;s ability to sustain revenue growth over the next decade. I don&#8217;t know, certainly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tangotiger</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/comment-page-2/#comment-161220</link>
		<dc:creator>tangotiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 00:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/#comment-161220</guid>
		<description>I said this elsewhere, and I&#039;ll repeat it:

=======================
Why is 10% not sustainable? Payroll has grown at a 10% clip from 1985 to 2005. Also 10% from 1990 to 2005. As high as 9% from 1996 to 2005. While 6% may seem more appropriate, Iâ€™d counter that MLBAM money will be enormous. MLBAM is already worth more than the Yankees Iâ€™d guess. And one day, possibly within the next few years, MLBAM will be worth 50% of the entire league.

Teams will have lots of money floating around, and, while spending it wonâ€™t give them a bigger share of MLBAM, they wonâ€™t be able to resist not spending it. They are going to budget spending 55% - 60% of their revenue on payroll, even if 45% makes more sense because of MLBAM-revenue sharing. 

====================================

As for the non-linearity, if you play in single-year fantasy baseball, you will find that the valuations of players do follow the linear rule.  I would say that if you were to construct a realistic baseball model (30 teams, average team payroll of 80 million$, with 1 SD = 15 million$), that the valuations of players would also follow a linear line.

I understand the &quot;50 x 1/50th Pujols&quot;, but the reality is that once a team pays for Pujols and Carpenter and Rolen, it&#039;s tough for them to keep paying for other stars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I said this elsewhere, and I&#8217;ll repeat it:</p>
<p>=======================<br />
Why is 10% not sustainable? Payroll has grown at a 10% clip from 1985 to 2005. Also 10% from 1990 to 2005. As high as 9% from 1996 to 2005. While 6% may seem more appropriate, Iâ€™d counter that MLBAM money will be enormous. MLBAM is already worth more than the Yankees Iâ€™d guess. And one day, possibly within the next few years, MLBAM will be worth 50% of the entire league.</p>
<p>Teams will have lots of money floating around, and, while spending it wonâ€™t give them a bigger share of MLBAM, they wonâ€™t be able to resist not spending it. They are going to budget spending 55% &#8211; 60% of their revenue on payroll, even if 45% makes more sense because of MLBAM-revenue sharing. </p>
<p>====================================</p>
<p>As for the non-linearity, if you play in single-year fantasy baseball, you will find that the valuations of players do follow the linear rule.  I would say that if you were to construct a realistic baseball model (30 teams, average team payroll of 80 million$, with 1 SD = 15 million$), that the valuations of players would also follow a linear line.</p>
<p>I understand the &#8220;50 x 1/50th Pujols&#8221;, but the reality is that once a team pays for Pujols and Carpenter and Rolen, it&#8217;s tough for them to keep paying for other stars.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/comment-page-2/#comment-161208</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 00:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/#comment-161208</guid>
		<description>Well, then, I disagree that that&#039;s a reasonable way to look at it, or that player valuation can or should be linear, or that 10% payroll inflation is sustainable.

It&#039;s like... say I can pick three car leases.

There&#039;s the BMW for $1,000 a month for ten years.
Or a nice VW for $500 on a five-year deal.
Or a Civic for $300 on a three-year deal.

Further, assume that cars all degrade in value continually, quickly, and equally. And there&#039;s no inflation. Also, no friction or gravity. At the end of the Beemer lease, you&#039;re paying $1,000 for a crappy car that spends all its time at the dealer and they won&#039;t give you a loaner.

You&#039;re not better off having signed that lease because the initial quality was better. At that point, in that last year of the deal, you&#039;re thinking &quot;Crap, I could go rent two VWs for this money. Or three Civics. Then I could have one for me, one for the extra $100 I&#039;m saving, and one for all the women who will want to date me for my amazing financial skills.&quot;

Okay, so that&#039;s not the best analogy, but I typed it out and everything so I&#039;m not going back.


How much would you pay to each player if they were one/50th as talented as Albert Pujols? You can&#039;t put a team together with 50 fractional Pujolses. And so on and so forth. Value can&#039;t be linear. Teams may pay on the line, but that doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s rational or a good idea.

And the economics thing - predicting even the near-term future of much larger economies is a crapshoot. I don&#039;t know if they can sustain 10%, but I&#039;m extremely skeptical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, then, I disagree that that&#8217;s a reasonable way to look at it, or that player valuation can or should be linear, or that 10% payroll inflation is sustainable.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like&#8230; say I can pick three car leases.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s the BMW for $1,000 a month for ten years.<br />
Or a nice VW for $500 on a five-year deal.<br />
Or a Civic for $300 on a three-year deal.</p>
<p>Further, assume that cars all degrade in value continually, quickly, and equally. And there&#8217;s no inflation. Also, no friction or gravity. At the end of the Beemer lease, you&#8217;re paying $1,000 for a crappy car that spends all its time at the dealer and they won&#8217;t give you a loaner.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re not better off having signed that lease because the initial quality was better. At that point, in that last year of the deal, you&#8217;re thinking &#8220;Crap, I could go rent two VWs for this money. Or three Civics. Then I could have one for me, one for the extra $100 I&#8217;m saving, and one for all the women who will want to date me for my amazing financial skills.&#8221;</p>
<p>Okay, so that&#8217;s not the best analogy, but I typed it out and everything so I&#8217;m not going back.</p>
<p>How much would you pay to each player if they were one/50th as talented as Albert Pujols? You can&#8217;t put a team together with 50 fractional Pujolses. And so on and so forth. Value can&#8217;t be linear. Teams may pay on the line, but that doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s rational or a good idea.</p>
<p>And the economics thing &#8211; predicting even the near-term future of much larger economies is a crapshoot. I don&#8217;t know if they can sustain 10%, but I&#8217;m extremely skeptical.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tangotiger</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/comment-page-2/#comment-161197</link>
		<dc:creator>tangotiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 00:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/#comment-161197</guid>
		<description>You are correct that my chart is based on a linear relationship, and therefore a 2-win player will, for a single year, earn half as much as a 4-win player, who will earn, for a single year, half as much as an 8-win player.

The value in the commodity is in sustaining that ability.  A 2-win player will say be 1.5 wins next year, then 1.0 wins, then 0.5 wins, then out of the league, so that over a 5-yr period, he&#039;d be 5 wins total.  A 4-win single-year player will be a 15 win player over 5 years, so he&#039;d producing 3 times more value, rather than the initial year double the value.

I believe it is on that basis that the perceived &quot;non-linearity&quot; comes in.  

I think if all players signed for exactly one year, the linear relationship would hold (like in fantasy baseball).  In any case, I think my model as I&#039;ve presented it would probably hold if we look at it long-term.

As for 10%, this has been the case if you look at most 10-yr periods.  I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if in the future it&#039;ll be more than 10%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are correct that my chart is based on a linear relationship, and therefore a 2-win player will, for a single year, earn half as much as a 4-win player, who will earn, for a single year, half as much as an 8-win player.</p>
<p>The value in the commodity is in sustaining that ability.  A 2-win player will say be 1.5 wins next year, then 1.0 wins, then 0.5 wins, then out of the league, so that over a 5-yr period, he&#8217;d be 5 wins total.  A 4-win single-year player will be a 15 win player over 5 years, so he&#8217;d producing 3 times more value, rather than the initial year double the value.</p>
<p>I believe it is on that basis that the perceived &#8220;non-linearity&#8221; comes in.  </p>
<p>I think if all players signed for exactly one year, the linear relationship would hold (like in fantasy baseball).  In any case, I think my model as I&#8217;ve presented it would probably hold if we look at it long-term.</p>
<p>As for 10%, this has been the case if you look at most 10-yr periods.  I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if in the future it&#8217;ll be more than 10%.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/comment-page-2/#comment-161179</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 21:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/#comment-161179</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say I&#039;m not so much unfamiliar as uncomprehending. The problem with that is that a 2-win player is not 1/2 as valuable as a 4-win player, because there are many more 2-win players. Their value as a commodity drops far more than a linear $5m/win=$value projection would indicate. If a 5-win player drops to a 1.5win player in the end of his contract, even with sustained inflation he&#039;s not worth it.

But then, I also don&#039;t believe a 10% annual inflation in payroll is sustainable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say I&#8217;m not so much unfamiliar as uncomprehending. The problem with that is that a 2-win player is not 1/2 as valuable as a 4-win player, because there are many more 2-win players. Their value as a commodity drops far more than a linear $5m/win=$value projection would indicate. If a 5-win player drops to a 1.5win player in the end of his contract, even with sustained inflation he&#8217;s not worth it.</p>
<p>But then, I also don&#8217;t believe a 10% annual inflation in payroll is sustainable.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tangotiger</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/comment-page-2/#comment-161175</link>
		<dc:creator>tangotiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 21:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/#comment-161175</guid>
		<description>You may not be too familiar with my chart, but I include a decline for performance, and an increase of $ per win for baseball-inflation.  That&#039;s why the chart works out the way it does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may not be too familiar with my chart, but I include a decline for performance, and an increase of $ per win for baseball-inflation.  That&#8217;s why the chart works out the way it does.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/comment-page-2/#comment-161167</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 21:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/28/2006-free-agent-signings/#comment-161167</guid>
		<description>Sure, but in any of these contracts, you&#039;re looking at players on the decline. Take the Matthews examples there: a 2/24 and a 2/19 deal might both be more than I would want to pay, but if you think he&#039;s going to be a 4 win player for the next two years, it&#039;s an overpayment of... 3 or 8 million. Over a nine-year deal, though, it&#039;s not just that that gap grows with years, it&#039;s also that his expected contribution drops as time goes on. You&#039;re not going to continue to get 4 wins/year out of a player over seven years, so it&#039;s a lot more like saying:
2/19 for the first two years, decent deal
2/19 for the next two years, less good
...

through the life of any contract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, but in any of these contracts, you&#8217;re looking at players on the decline. Take the Matthews examples there: a 2/24 and a 2/19 deal might both be more than I would want to pay, but if you think he&#8217;s going to be a 4 win player for the next two years, it&#8217;s an overpayment of&#8230; 3 or 8 million. Over a nine-year deal, though, it&#8217;s not just that that gap grows with years, it&#8217;s also that his expected contribution drops as time goes on. You&#8217;re not going to continue to get 4 wins/year out of a player over seven years, so it&#8217;s a lot more like saying:<br />
2/19 for the first two years, decent deal<br />
2/19 for the next two years, less good<br />
&#8230;</p>
<p>through the life of any contract.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

