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	<title>Comments on: August Offense</title>
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	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: milquetoast</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/comment-page-2/#comment-228895</link>
		<dc:creator>milquetoast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/#comment-228895</guid>
		<description>Also, if you are going with this reasoning, then you are arguing that we should be leaving Sexson in the lineup, because his variance/upside is higher than Broussard&#039;s. Then again maybe Sexson really is just a turd now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, if you are going with this reasoning, then you are arguing that we should be leaving Sexson in the lineup, because his variance/upside is higher than Broussard&#8217;s. Then again maybe Sexson really is just a turd now.</p>
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		<title>By: milquetoast</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/comment-page-2/#comment-228894</link>
		<dc:creator>milquetoast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/#comment-228894</guid>
		<description>If you are saying that if you have two teams/players with a similar obp, then the one with the higher batting average to get there is probably going to score more runs, then I agree with you. Will team B really have &quot;a lot more success&quot; against the good defense/power pitchers? I don&#039;t know, I still think team A with a higher avg but same obp would beat the same team more often than team B would. But Maybe not, I can see your argument. As for variance, maybe. I don&#039;t know. I remember Jeff over at lookoutlanding forwarded his hypothesis that we were better against &quot;good&quot; pitchers who stayed in the zone, and sucked against crappy pitchers who had no control. It&#039;s a fun hypothesis but I wouldn&#039;t be convinced until a better study was made.

The idea that the M&#039;s were &quot;built for October play&quot; then suggest that other playoff teams have bad defense/contact pitchers. I don&#039;t think a) that&#039;s likely, b) that&#039;s what Dave is saying here. The variance factor, then, is the idea that the Ms somehow have more &quot;upside&quot; than other teams. I remember a similar thread on The Book blog (here:http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/speaking_of_having_no_clue_as_to_the_efficacy_or_wisdom_of_the_sacrifice_at/)
where Dave argued with others, Lichtman (and I with a short note) among them, he&#039;d rather have Beltre than others with the same projection because he has greater variance in his results, and therefore though has the possibility to do worse than others, also has the same possibility to do better. (In that thread, by the way, Dave and Mitchel considered making a wager on who was right. Did Dave take up Mitchel&#039;s offer? And who is winning that bet right now if he did?)

I think Beltre, then, becomes a good metaphor for the team as a whole. And basically, what Dave is saying is that if the Ms get lucky, they will have a better chance of winning than if another team gets lucky. Okay. Maybe. But to think that we are &quot;built for october&quot; because we might get lucky is ridiculous. Any team can get lucky. If the Yankees get lucky, then forget about it. I&#039;m saying, thank god the Ms are luckier than other teams this year.

I hope this made sense. It&#039;s 4 in the morning and I&#039;m only up cos I just got dumped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are saying that if you have two teams/players with a similar obp, then the one with the higher batting average to get there is probably going to score more runs, then I agree with you. Will team B really have &#8220;a lot more success&#8221; against the good defense/power pitchers? I don&#8217;t know, I still think team A with a higher avg but same obp would beat the same team more often than team B would. But Maybe not, I can see your argument. As for variance, maybe. I don&#8217;t know. I remember Jeff over at lookoutlanding forwarded his hypothesis that we were better against &#8220;good&#8221; pitchers who stayed in the zone, and sucked against crappy pitchers who had no control. It&#8217;s a fun hypothesis but I wouldn&#8217;t be convinced until a better study was made.</p>
<p>The idea that the M&#8217;s were &#8220;built for October play&#8221; then suggest that other playoff teams have bad defense/contact pitchers. I don&#8217;t think a) that&#8217;s likely, b) that&#8217;s what Dave is saying here. The variance factor, then, is the idea that the Ms somehow have more &#8220;upside&#8221; than other teams. I remember a similar thread on The Book blog (here:<a href="http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/speaking_of_having_no_clue_as_to_the_efficacy_or_wisdom_of_the_sacrifice_at/" rel="nofollow">http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/speaking_of_having_no_clue_as_to_the_efficacy_or_wisdom_of_the_sacrifice_at/</a>)<br />
where Dave argued with others, Lichtman (and I with a short note) among them, he&#8217;d rather have Beltre than others with the same projection because he has greater variance in his results, and therefore though has the possibility to do worse than others, also has the same possibility to do better. (In that thread, by the way, Dave and Mitchel considered making a wager on who was right. Did Dave take up Mitchel&#8217;s offer? And who is winning that bet right now if he did?)</p>
<p>I think Beltre, then, becomes a good metaphor for the team as a whole. And basically, what Dave is saying is that if the Ms get lucky, they will have a better chance of winning than if another team gets lucky. Okay. Maybe. But to think that we are &#8220;built for october&#8221; because we might get lucky is ridiculous. Any team can get lucky. If the Yankees get lucky, then forget about it. I&#8217;m saying, thank god the Ms are luckier than other teams this year.</p>
<p>I hope this made sense. It&#8217;s 4 in the morning and I&#8217;m only up cos I just got dumped.</p>
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		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/comment-page-2/#comment-228477</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 01:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/#comment-228477</guid>
		<description>It might be helpful to think of it this way: if you have two teams, both with on-base percentages of .350, team A all with singles and team B with a ton of walks, you&#039;ll see team A&#039;s offensive performance contains a lot more variance: if they face a team with a bad defense, or a pitch-to-contact starter, they&#039;re likely to batter them to death with singles, while team B will have a lot more success putting batters on base against good defense/power pitchers, and less success against bad defense/contact pitchers because they&#039;re not putting the ball in play as much.

While they may both put the same number of baserunners on over a year, the A offense is almost certainly going to exhibit a lot more variance in how it does day-to-day, series-to-series, and even month-to-month than B does.

In practice, of course, it&#039;s a lot more complicated</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might be helpful to think of it this way: if you have two teams, both with on-base percentages of .350, team A all with singles and team B with a ton of walks, you&#8217;ll see team A&#8217;s offensive performance contains a lot more variance: if they face a team with a bad defense, or a pitch-to-contact starter, they&#8217;re likely to batter them to death with singles, while team B will have a lot more success putting batters on base against good defense/power pitchers, and less success against bad defense/contact pitchers because they&#8217;re not putting the ball in play as much.</p>
<p>While they may both put the same number of baserunners on over a year, the A offense is almost certainly going to exhibit a lot more variance in how it does day-to-day, series-to-series, and even month-to-month than B does.</p>
<p>In practice, of course, it&#8217;s a lot more complicated</p>
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		<title>By: milquetoast</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/comment-page-2/#comment-228475</link>
		<dc:creator>milquetoast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 01:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/#comment-228475</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Weâ€™ve talked about the sustainability factor of those performances, but hereâ€™s the thing - this hyper aggressive approach comes with significant variance, but that variance comes with a built in upside - over any period of weeks, the Mâ€™s can absolutely blister the ball. This is basically the blueprint the White Sox used to score their way to a World Series title - swing the bat a lot, get a lot of hits, have parade.&lt;/i&gt;

Does this not contradict the recent post made about how there is no such thing as a &quot;hot streak&quot; for a player? Is there any reason to think the Ms, as a team, can blister the ball for any period of weeks any more than a single player can do that? You can find winning streaks/offensive streaks on any team during any part of the season due to random variance, why is this any more true for the Ms than any other team? Can we assign a predictive value to the team as a whole any more than we can do for a player? I don&#039;t think so. The way I read it, it simply says that the Ms can get lucky and win. It reminds me of a friend with whom I once went to a casino, and he said: &quot;you can win, but you have to be lucky.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Weâ€™ve talked about the sustainability factor of those performances, but hereâ€™s the thing &#8211; this hyper aggressive approach comes with significant variance, but that variance comes with a built in upside &#8211; over any period of weeks, the Mâ€™s can absolutely blister the ball. This is basically the blueprint the White Sox used to score their way to a World Series title &#8211; swing the bat a lot, get a lot of hits, have parade.</i></p>
<p>Does this not contradict the recent post made about how there is no such thing as a &#8220;hot streak&#8221; for a player? Is there any reason to think the Ms, as a team, can blister the ball for any period of weeks any more than a single player can do that? You can find winning streaks/offensive streaks on any team during any part of the season due to random variance, why is this any more true for the Ms than any other team? Can we assign a predictive value to the team as a whole any more than we can do for a player? I don&#8217;t think so. The way I read it, it simply says that the Ms can get lucky and win. It reminds me of a friend with whom I once went to a casino, and he said: &#8220;you can win, but you have to be lucky.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: davepaisley</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/comment-page-2/#comment-228068</link>
		<dc:creator>davepaisley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 03:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/#comment-228068</guid>
		<description>81 &quot;Think of this team like Jello; remove an ingredient (a player) and the whole thing changes. Maybe it wonâ€™t even be â€œJelloâ€ anymore but rather a sloppy, liquid bucket of goo like Oakland.&quot;

Or maybe:

Think of your body like Jello; remove an ingredient (your brain) and the whole thing changes. Or maybe not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>81 &#8220;Think of this team like Jello; remove an ingredient (a player) and the whole thing changes. Maybe it wonâ€™t even be â€œJelloâ€ anymore but rather a sloppy, liquid bucket of goo like Oakland.&#8221;</p>
<p>Or maybe:</p>
<p>Think of your body like Jello; remove an ingredient (your brain) and the whole thing changes. Or maybe not.</p>
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		<title>By: davepaisley</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/comment-page-2/#comment-228049</link>
		<dc:creator>davepaisley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 02:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/#comment-228049</guid>
		<description>81 aka bigdad03

Nice platitudinous post. Are you really Bob Finnegan posting from retirement? 

As for:
&quot;Stay positive. We need your energy and enthusiasm focused on the â€˜goodâ€™ rather than the bad or the ugly.&quot;

Wow. Do you want us to win one for the Gipper, too? It ain&#039;t over till it&#039;s over? Don&#039;t stop believin&#039;? Nobody, and I mean nobody, comes into our house and pushes us around?

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>81 aka bigdad03</p>
<p>Nice platitudinous post. Are you really Bob Finnegan posting from retirement? </p>
<p>As for:<br />
&#8220;Stay positive. We need your energy and enthusiasm focused on the â€˜goodâ€™ rather than the bad or the ugly.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wow. Do you want us to win one for the Gipper, too? It ain&#8217;t over till it&#8217;s over? Don&#8217;t stop believin&#8217;? Nobody, and I mean nobody, comes into our house and pushes us around?</p>
<p>A mind is a terrible thing to waste.</p>
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		<title>By: gwangung</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/comment-page-2/#comment-228041</link>
		<dc:creator>gwangung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 02:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/#comment-228041</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; I thought personal attacks were against this blogs conduct policy. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I thought people had the common sense to actually read what&#039;s been posted before.

Don&#039;t troll and behave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> I thought personal attacks were against this blogs conduct policy. </p></blockquote>
<p>I thought people had the common sense to actually read what&#8217;s been posted before.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t troll and behave.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Malph</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/comment-page-2/#comment-228019</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Malph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 02:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/#comment-228019</guid>
		<description>I think the conduct policy applies to posters.  I believe the authors, the people who run this place, can do whatever they want.  It&#039;s their house and their rules, and if you don&#039;t like them you can leave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the conduct policy applies to posters.  I believe the authors, the people who run this place, can do whatever they want.  It&#8217;s their house and their rules, and if you don&#8217;t like them you can leave.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Nye</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/comment-page-2/#comment-227997</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Nye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/#comment-227997</guid>
		<description>Oh, god.

Vidro has no power because Ichiro doesn&#039;t steal enough bases?

I cannot possibly roll my eyes hard enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, god.</p>
<p>Vidro has no power because Ichiro doesn&#8217;t steal enough bases?</p>
<p>I cannot possibly roll my eyes hard enough.</p>
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		<title>By: bigdad03</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/comment-page-2/#comment-227983</link>
		<dc:creator>bigdad03</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/08/24/august-offense/#comment-227983</guid>
		<description>Crazy man here. Thanks Dave for your insight. I thought personal attacks were against this blogs conduct policy. 

Next topic: Will the Angels be able to sustain their record at home? That seems to be a real key as to whether we can overcome them or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crazy man here. Thanks Dave for your insight. I thought personal attacks were against this blogs conduct policy. </p>
<p>Next topic: Will the Angels be able to sustain their record at home? That seems to be a real key as to whether we can overcome them or not.</p>
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