Comments on: In praise of Vidro http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/ Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:41:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: portlysimpering http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/comment-page-1/#comment-235190 portlysimpering Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:34:01 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/#comment-235190 I don't disagree with the standard USSM analysis that picking up Vidro made little sense, because of the glut at 1B/DH, but at least Vidro has turned out to be somewhat of a solution to a problem: Batting 2nd, 2007: M's .366/.404 (JV 83g .384/.404, also AB & JL); Opponents .359/.470 Batting 2nd, 2006: M's .329/.471 (Lopez 74g .316/.449, Beltre 61g .367/.574); Opponents .328/.413 Batting 2nd, 2005: M's .315/.369 (Winn .326/.402, also JR & WB); Opponents .344/.395 Batting 2nd, 2004: M's .336/.421 (Winn .343/.439); Opponents .339/.420 The only time from 2004-2006 Mariners had good production at #2 was when they stuck Beltre there. Vidro, whether his BABIP is due to luck (essentially an unknown), or whether you think his above-average walk rate "sucks" (known), has at least been able to post a decent (if "> Ichiro career" qualifies) OBP this year. Then again, an extra .05 of OBP in the #2 hole is probably of less use to the M's than to any other team anyway.... 2006 stats (e.g.) found at: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/Statistics/Team/playerstats?team=sea&seasonYear=2006&split=110&seasonType=2&type=reg&pagetype=batting Bonus running-around-espn note: Angels DH's (resting regulars) have hit .304/.365 this year. It's interesting that three teams have threat-to-lead-in-OPS type DH's (Ortiz, Hafner, Thome), four teams have semi-retired superstars born in 1968 (Sheffield, Thomas, Sosa, Piazza), 6 teams use a player chosen at random and the Mariners have Vidro. They're at least thinking outside the box. I don’t disagree with the standard USSM analysis that picking up Vidro made little sense, because of the glut at 1B/DH, but at least Vidro has turned out to be somewhat of a solution to a problem:

Batting 2nd, 2007: M’s .366/.404 (JV 83g .384/.404, also AB & JL); Opponents .359/.470

Batting 2nd, 2006: M’s .329/.471 (Lopez 74g .316/.449, Beltre 61g .367/.574); Opponents .328/.413

Batting 2nd, 2005: M’s .315/.369 (Winn .326/.402, also JR & WB); Opponents .344/.395

Batting 2nd, 2004: M’s .336/.421 (Winn .343/.439); Opponents .339/.420

The only time from 2004-2006 Mariners had good production at #2 was when they stuck Beltre there. Vidro, whether his BABIP is due to luck (essentially an unknown), or whether you think his above-average walk rate “sucks” (known), has at least been able to post a decent (if “> Ichiro career” qualifies) OBP this year. Then again, an extra .05 of OBP in the #2 hole is probably of less use to the M’s than to any other team anyway….

2006 stats (e.g.) found at: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/Statistics/Team/playerstats?team=sea&seasonYear=2006&split=110&seasonType=2&type=reg&pagetype=batting

Bonus running-around-espn note: Angels DH’s (resting regulars) have hit .304/.365 this year. It’s interesting that three teams have threat-to-lead-in-OPS type DH’s (Ortiz, Hafner, Thome), four teams have semi-retired superstars born in 1968 (Sheffield, Thomas, Sosa, Piazza), 6 teams use a player chosen at random and the Mariners have Vidro. They’re at least thinking outside the box.

]]> By: Jordan of Boise http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/comment-page-1/#comment-235131 Jordan of Boise Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:22:21 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/#comment-235131 "He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother." “He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.”

]]> By: gwangung http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/comment-page-1/#comment-235130 gwangung Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:37:12 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/#comment-235130 <blockquote> Man. I try and find something nice to say about Vidro, and that’s all I get for it? I mean… I know, he’s not patient - clearly, the stats of the other guys show that, and sure, I’d be happier if he was drawing 100, but it’s something nice I wanted to point out. </blockquote> True. And when all else fails, go the route of positive reinforcement. Condition with praise for minor goodness, no matter how small, and maybe the rest of the donkey (term used purposefully) will follow...

Man. I try and find something nice to say about Vidro, and that’s all I get for it? I mean… I know, he’s not patient – clearly, the stats of the other guys show that, and sure, I’d be happier if he was drawing 100, but it’s something nice I wanted to point out.

True.

And when all else fails, go the route of positive reinforcement. Condition with praise for minor goodness, no matter how small, and maybe the rest of the donkey (term used purposefully) will follow…

]]> By: DMZ http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/comment-page-1/#comment-235129 DMZ Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:09:28 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/#comment-235129 Man. I try and find something nice to say about Vidro, and that's all I get for it? I mean... I know, he's not patient - clearly, the stats of the other guys show that, and sure, I'd be happier if he was drawing 100, but it's something nice I wanted to point out. Man. I try and find something nice to say about Vidro, and that’s all I get for it? I mean… I know, he’s not patient – clearly, the stats of the other guys show that, and sure, I’d be happier if he was drawing 100, but it’s something nice I wanted to point out.

]]> By: Steve T http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/comment-page-1/#comment-235127 Steve T Mon, 10 Sep 2007 05:27:03 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/#comment-235127 I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. Vidro is not patient, and he does not have a good eye. He sucks at drawing walks -- it's just that everyone else on this team of non-walkers sucks worse. Saying that because he leads the team he's good at it is a bit too much like "doesn't sweat much for a fat girl" to me. I'd be a lot happier if someone was a threat to break 100 -- i.e., was an ACTUAL patient hitter. I’m sorry, I’m not buying it. Vidro is not patient, and he does not have a good eye. He sucks at drawing walks — it’s just that everyone else on this team of non-walkers sucks worse.

Saying that because he leads the team he’s good at it is a bit too much like “doesn’t sweat much for a fat girl” to me. I’d be a lot happier if someone was a threat to break 100 — i.e., was an ACTUAL patient hitter.

]]> By: Chris88 http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/comment-page-1/#comment-235125 Chris88 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 05:14:27 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/#comment-235125 I hate our organizations whole "It worked before, its worked a bit recently, why change it now." I mean, they don't even bother to see if there is something that works better EVERY time. Not just this one way of hitting, or this one lineup, because it has worked a few times. The Devil Rays win occasionally, that doesn't mean what they are doing is the best way. Heck, a horse-drawn carriage worked for a long time. I guess if you are a Mariner it is time to saddle up? I hate our organizations whole “It worked before, its worked a bit recently, why change it now.”

I mean, they don’t even bother to see if there is something that works better EVERY time. Not just this one way of hitting, or this one lineup, because it has worked a few times.

The Devil Rays win occasionally, that doesn’t mean what they are doing is the best way. Heck, a horse-drawn carriage worked for a long time. I guess if you are a Mariner it is time to saddle up?

]]> By: argh http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/comment-page-1/#comment-235120 argh Mon, 10 Sep 2007 00:54:46 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/#comment-235120 Knowing how to spell it and successfully commanding the fingers to perform are two different issues. Knowing how to spell it and successfully commanding the fingers to perform are two different issues.

]]> By: Karen http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/comment-page-1/#comment-235113 Karen Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:57:42 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/#comment-235113 #23. That's "Pythagorean", not "pygathorean", argh. Just in case you ever have to type it again... :) #23. That’s “Pythagorean”, not “pygathorean”, argh.

Just in case you ever have to type it again… :)

]]> By: jlc http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/comment-page-1/#comment-235111 jlc Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:52:58 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/#comment-235111 Did somebody post the Rosenthal article here? McLaren loves the fact that these guys are free swingers and is concerned about trying to change it much. That makes Vidro's discipline all the more amazing. Did somebody post the Rosenthal article here? McLaren loves the fact that these guys are free swingers and is concerned about trying to change it much. That makes Vidro’s discipline all the more amazing.

]]> By: terry http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/comment-page-1/#comment-235071 terry Sun, 09 Sep 2007 22:46:55 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/09/08/in-praise-of-vidro/#comment-235071 I'm not a pessimist by nature but I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop with the Ms since July. The Ms roster simply isn't as good as the other legitimate playoff contenders and their collective brain trust isn't exactly enlightened so rapid adaptation isn't an option for them. Really you didn't get the feeling that the Ms were going to leverage advantages or squeeze every ounce of ability out of their roster. Then they entered their "desert of no respite" (i.e. their span of 596 games in 40 days) in which they played some stiff competition and unfortunately all of their flaws came to bare. Really the Gods doomed them with snow in April. The Ms margin of error couldn't even withstand a couple inches of snow!? Those on Mt. Olympus can kiss my arse. Then after purposefully adding a few nail holes to their own canteen in Parrish and White, it's no real surprise that the Ms ran out of water. You would think the Gods would direct their folly on someone whose downfall would be more tragic and less deserved. Winning is always more fun than losing and I LOVE the underdog. There just wasn't a sense that the Ms could overcome some of the serious flaws in their roster IMHO. That said, they came pretty close and despite the frustration of seeing them flame out, I'm pretty grateful for an unexpected gift of a season. I’m not a pessimist by nature but I’ve been waiting for the other shoe to drop with the Ms since July. The Ms roster simply isn’t as good as the other legitimate playoff contenders and their collective brain trust isn’t exactly enlightened so rapid adaptation isn’t an option for them. Really you didn’t get the feeling that the Ms were going to leverage advantages or squeeze every ounce of ability out of their roster. Then they entered their “desert of no respite” (i.e. their span of 596 games in 40 days) in which they played some stiff competition and unfortunately all of their flaws came to bare. Really the Gods doomed them with snow in April. The Ms margin of error couldn’t even withstand a couple inches of snow!? Those on Mt. Olympus can kiss my arse. Then after purposefully adding a few nail holes to their own canteen in Parrish and White, it’s no real surprise that the Ms ran out of water. You would think the Gods would direct their folly on someone whose downfall would be more tragic and less deserved.

Winning is always more fun than losing and I LOVE the underdog. There just wasn’t a sense that the Ms could overcome some of the serious flaws in their roster IMHO. That said, they came pretty close and despite the frustration of seeing them flame out, I’m pretty grateful for an unexpected gift of a season.

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