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	<title>Comments on: PECOTA projects the 2008 season</title>
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	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: dbroncos31</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/comment-page-1/#comment-252835</link>
		<dc:creator>dbroncos31</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/#comment-252835</guid>
		<description>Thanks, I was just wondering (read: hoping) if there was a reason to believe the James projections over the others. I guess it&#039;s just wishful thinking, haha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, I was just wondering (read: hoping) if there was a reason to believe the James projections over the others. I guess it&#8217;s just wishful thinking, haha.</p>
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		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/comment-page-1/#comment-252833</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/#comment-252833</guid>
		<description>I do not know of a systematic reason why one system would rate a particular team&#039;s players high or low in one system compared to the others, except the obvious park effects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not know of a systematic reason why one system would rate a particular team&#8217;s players high or low in one system compared to the others, except the obvious park effects.</p>
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		<title>By: dbroncos31</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/comment-page-1/#comment-252830</link>
		<dc:creator>dbroncos31</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/#comment-252830</guid>
		<description>DMZ, do you know why the Bill James projections seem to be so much more optimistic for the M&#039;s? I was looking at the numbers on Fangraphs and almost everyone on the team has better numbers than in PECOTA or ZiPS. I&#039;m not very familiar with how each projection is made, but I&#039;m curious as to why James (and CHONE to an extent) seem to love the M&#039;s while PECOTA and ZiPS hate us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DMZ, do you know why the Bill James projections seem to be so much more optimistic for the M&#8217;s? I was looking at the numbers on Fangraphs and almost everyone on the team has better numbers than in PECOTA or ZiPS. I&#8217;m not very familiar with how each projection is made, but I&#8217;m curious as to why James (and CHONE to an extent) seem to love the M&#8217;s while PECOTA and ZiPS hate us.</p>
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		<title>By: Mat</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/comment-page-1/#comment-252807</link>
		<dc:creator>Mat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 03:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/#comment-252807</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;My question in 13 was not meant to suggest that PECOTA is crap or anything like that. More precisely phrased, I was wondering what, for example, the standard deviation of spring team projections have been for the last few years.&lt;/i&gt;

I ran some rough numbers on this last weekend looking at some DMB 2007 preseason projections, Nate Silver&#039;s PECOTA projections, Nate Silver&#039;s predictions after he tried to adjust things manually, Joe Sheehan&#039;s projections, and the preseason predictions from a poll of espn.com baseball writers.  I don&#039;t have the numbers handy right now, but the DMB and PECOTA projections did the best, coming in with a reduced chi square statistic of about one.  Nate Silver made his predictions worse by deviating from PECOTA, but not a whole lot worse.  The espn.com writers were a fair bit worse (reduced chi square of around 1.5 I think) and Joe Sheehan was last in the group with a reduced chi square of around 1.7.

Basically, the objective preseason predictions did remarkably well if you&#039;re comfortable with the idea that a team&#039;s win total is the sum of 162 random binomial events.  The standard deviation on such random variable is going to be about 6 wins over 162 games, which gives a sort of limit on just how well you can predict the season (like there&#039;s a limit as to how well you can predict a series of coin tosses.)  If that&#039;s the case no one is going to get much closer without being really lucky (or if games are somehow more pre-determined with match-fixing or something like that.)  And for all of the &quot;adjusting for the human element&quot; that analysts can do by hand, they did a fair bit worse than the objective systems in 2007.

2007 could turn out to be special, but I doubt it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>My question in 13 was not meant to suggest that PECOTA is crap or anything like that. More precisely phrased, I was wondering what, for example, the standard deviation of spring team projections have been for the last few years.</i></p>
<p>I ran some rough numbers on this last weekend looking at some DMB 2007 preseason projections, Nate Silver&#8217;s PECOTA projections, Nate Silver&#8217;s predictions after he tried to adjust things manually, Joe Sheehan&#8217;s projections, and the preseason predictions from a poll of espn.com baseball writers.  I don&#8217;t have the numbers handy right now, but the DMB and PECOTA projections did the best, coming in with a reduced chi square statistic of about one.  Nate Silver made his predictions worse by deviating from PECOTA, but not a whole lot worse.  The espn.com writers were a fair bit worse (reduced chi square of around 1.5 I think) and Joe Sheehan was last in the group with a reduced chi square of around 1.7.</p>
<p>Basically, the objective preseason predictions did remarkably well if you&#8217;re comfortable with the idea that a team&#8217;s win total is the sum of 162 random binomial events.  The standard deviation on such random variable is going to be about 6 wins over 162 games, which gives a sort of limit on just how well you can predict the season (like there&#8217;s a limit as to how well you can predict a series of coin tosses.)  If that&#8217;s the case no one is going to get much closer without being really lucky (or if games are somehow more pre-determined with match-fixing or something like that.)  And for all of the &#8220;adjusting for the human element&#8221; that analysts can do by hand, they did a fair bit worse than the objective systems in 2007.</p>
<p>2007 could turn out to be special, but I doubt it.</p>
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		<title>By: scott19</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/comment-page-1/#comment-252795</link>
		<dc:creator>scott19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/#comment-252795</guid>
		<description>Wow...73-89?!  Sure sounds like a rip-roaringly-exciting summer to me! &gt;:(

This might actually be a good year to subscribe to Extra Innings to watch some of the other teams.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230;73-89?!  Sure sounds like a rip-roaringly-exciting summer to me! &gt;:(</p>
<p>This might actually be a good year to subscribe to Extra Innings to watch some of the other teams.</p>
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		<title>By: terry</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/comment-page-1/#comment-252792</link>
		<dc:creator>terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 08:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/#comment-252792</guid>
		<description>Wowsers, that&#039;s with WFB getting less than 200 PAs too....

BTW, why does BP make it so hard to figure out how they project playing time on their depth charts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wowsers, that&#8217;s with WFB getting less than 200 PAs too&#8230;.</p>
<p>BTW, why does BP make it so hard to figure out how they project playing time on their depth charts?</p>
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		<title>By: Deelron</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/comment-page-1/#comment-252786</link>
		<dc:creator>Deelron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 06:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/#comment-252786</guid>
		<description>-#21 Exactly, even in the article linked by #13 there are hardly any misses as bad as +17 (just the Cubs at -19 if I&#039;m not mistaken), which is what it would take to to push the M&#039;s up to the 90 win threshold. We can hope it&#039;s one of their worst projections ever, but at this point that&#039;s all it is sadly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-#21 Exactly, even in the article linked by #13 there are hardly any misses as bad as +17 (just the Cubs at -19 if I&#8217;m not mistaken), which is what it would take to to push the M&#8217;s up to the 90 win threshold. We can hope it&#8217;s one of their worst projections ever, but at this point that&#8217;s all it is sadly.</p>
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		<title>By: Typical Idiot Fan</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/comment-page-1/#comment-252780</link>
		<dc:creator>Typical Idiot Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 04:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/#comment-252780</guid>
		<description>Let me be fair with my previous statement:  I&#039;m not a BP subscriber.  I don&#039;t really have the time to go through the oodles of information they have to warrant spending money on it.  But I know that they have a hard time projecting Ichiro annually because of his historic uniqueness.

Be that as it may, the difference in win values between Ichiro&#039;s PECOTA projection and his real values wont be significant enough to think that the projections here are absurdly low.  One or two wins added when your projection is 73 wins wont make a ants&#039; nuts worth of difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me be fair with my previous statement:  I&#8217;m not a BP subscriber.  I don&#8217;t really have the time to go through the oodles of information they have to warrant spending money on it.  But I know that they have a hard time projecting Ichiro annually because of his historic uniqueness.</p>
<p>Be that as it may, the difference in win values between Ichiro&#8217;s PECOTA projection and his real values wont be significant enough to think that the projections here are absurdly low.  One or two wins added when your projection is 73 wins wont make a ants&#8217; nuts worth of difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Typical Idiot Fan</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/comment-page-1/#comment-252779</link>
		<dc:creator>Typical Idiot Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 03:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/#comment-252779</guid>
		<description>That has to include PECOTA&#039;s annual &quot;We Can&#039;t Figure Out Ichiro&quot; projections, I&#039;m assuming</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That has to include PECOTA&#8217;s annual &#8220;We Can&#8217;t Figure Out Ichiro&#8221; projections, I&#8217;m assuming</p>
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		<title>By: thefin190</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/comment-page-1/#comment-252773</link>
		<dc:creator>thefin190</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 01:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/15/pecota-projects-the-2008-season/#comment-252773</guid>
		<description>5 - touchÃ© Derek, touchÃ©.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>5 &#8211; touchÃ© Derek, touchÃ©.</p>
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