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	<title>Comments on: A brief return to the Clement decision</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/20/a-brief-return-to-the-clement-decision/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/20/a-brief-return-to-the-clement-decision/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: wickethewok</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/20/a-brief-return-to-the-clement-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-273180</link>
		<dc:creator>wickethewok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 23:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5201#comment-273180</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I realize he isnâ€™t a shill for the team, but sometimes his arguments seem so narrow minded, he makes it sound like he is.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I usually don&#039;t read Seattle press (Pirates fan), so I had to double check that Baker doesn&#039;t work for the team as a PR guy or something.  I didn&#039;t realize that I&#039;ve been spoiled by the Buccos&#039; beat writer for the Post Gazette.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I realize he isnâ€™t a shill for the team, but sometimes his arguments seem so narrow minded, he makes it sound like he is.</p></blockquote>
<p>I usually don&#8217;t read Seattle press (Pirates fan), so I had to double check that Baker doesn&#8217;t work for the team as a PR guy or something.  I didn&#8217;t realize that I&#8217;ve been spoiled by the Buccos&#8217; beat writer for the Post Gazette.</p>
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		<title>By: don52656</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/20/a-brief-return-to-the-clement-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-272989</link>
		<dc:creator>don52656</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 17:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5201#comment-272989</guid>
		<description>And I forgot to add...the comment by &quot;certaindoom&quot;, #23, is right on!  It describes the M&#039;s to a tee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I forgot to add&#8230;the comment by &#8220;certaindoom&#8221;, #23, is right on!  It describes the M&#8217;s to a tee.</p>
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		<title>By: don52656</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/20/a-brief-return-to-the-clement-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-272986</link>
		<dc:creator>don52656</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 17:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5201#comment-272986</guid>
		<description>My first reaction to the Clement decision was &quot;there they go again&quot;.  Upon reflection, I sort of understand the decision, because the M&#039;s don&#039;t have the luxury of waiting for Clement to season and get used to being a major leaguer because they think they have to rescue the season &quot;before&quot; it is lost.  Of course, most of the folks on this site believe the season is already lost, so we don&#039;t buy that argument.

Holding off an extra year before Clement &quot;free agent-hood&quot; is a good thing for the M&#039;s future.  Next time he comes up, he&#039;ll probably be more effective because he will be less anxious and will be more and more likely to face pitchers for a second time.  And, the next time he comes up, the M&#039;s will have realized what most of already know and will be preparing for the future.

Just heard on KJR that the two best teams in the NL right now are being managed by Lou Piniella and Bob Melvin.  Also, Jorge Campillo (!), Joel Pineiro, and Gil Meche all had good outings yesterday....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first reaction to the Clement decision was &#8220;there they go again&#8221;.  Upon reflection, I sort of understand the decision, because the M&#8217;s don&#8217;t have the luxury of waiting for Clement to season and get used to being a major leaguer because they think they have to rescue the season &#8220;before&#8221; it is lost.  Of course, most of the folks on this site believe the season is already lost, so we don&#8217;t buy that argument.</p>
<p>Holding off an extra year before Clement &#8220;free agent-hood&#8221; is a good thing for the M&#8217;s future.  Next time he comes up, he&#8217;ll probably be more effective because he will be less anxious and will be more and more likely to face pitchers for a second time.  And, the next time he comes up, the M&#8217;s will have realized what most of already know and will be preparing for the future.</p>
<p>Just heard on KJR that the two best teams in the NL right now are being managed by Lou Piniella and Bob Melvin.  Also, Jorge Campillo (!), Joel Pineiro, and Gil Meche all had good outings yesterday&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: ralphie81</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/20/a-brief-return-to-the-clement-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-272985</link>
		<dc:creator>ralphie81</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 17:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5201#comment-272985</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Also, Cairo has no business being on this roster, and weâ€™re reminded of that with every move.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But, but, but....he has the best line there!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Also, Cairo has no business being on this roster, and weâ€™re reminded of that with every move.</p></blockquote>
<p>But, but, but&#8230;.he has the best line there!!!</p>
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		<title>By: angrybeltre</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/20/a-brief-return-to-the-clement-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-272964</link>
		<dc:creator>angrybeltre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 17:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5201#comment-272964</guid>
		<description>On point as usual DMZ.

jzalman, good call with the &#039;same pitcher twice&#039; difference as well. I just wish we had more examples, I bet the stats would look a lot more favorably on Clement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On point as usual DMZ.</p>
<p>jzalman, good call with the &#8216;same pitcher twice&#8217; difference as well. I just wish we had more examples, I bet the stats would look a lot more favorably on Clement.</p>
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		<title>By: jzalman</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/20/a-brief-return-to-the-clement-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-272934</link>
		<dc:creator>jzalman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 15:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5201#comment-272934</guid>
		<description>@ 1,2:

Re Clement&#039;s facing a pitcher twice:

He face Vincent Padilla twice.  First time he flied out, SO swinging, SO looking.  Second time he singled, lined out, then doubled (causing Padilla to be pulled).  

Sooo, maybe an adjustment?  Of course an incredibly small sample.  Also, to be fair, it could have just been an off day for Padilla in general.  He pitched 7 shut out innings in the first game against us, then 5 innings giving up 7 hits, a BB, 6 runs, 3 earned.  Still interesting to see that the only pitcher Clement faced twice he improved drastically from 0-3 with 2 K&#039;s (Padilla&#039;s no artist) to 2-3 with a double and a line out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ 1,2:</p>
<p>Re Clement&#8217;s facing a pitcher twice:</p>
<p>He face Vincent Padilla twice.  First time he flied out, SO swinging, SO looking.  Second time he singled, lined out, then doubled (causing Padilla to be pulled).  </p>
<p>Sooo, maybe an adjustment?  Of course an incredibly small sample.  Also, to be fair, it could have just been an off day for Padilla in general.  He pitched 7 shut out innings in the first game against us, then 5 innings giving up 7 hits, a BB, 6 runs, 3 earned.  Still interesting to see that the only pitcher Clement faced twice he improved drastically from 0-3 with 2 K&#8217;s (Padilla&#8217;s no artist) to 2-3 with a double and a line out.</p>
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		<title>By: jspektor</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/20/a-brief-return-to-the-clement-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-272930</link>
		<dc:creator>jspektor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 15:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5201#comment-272930</guid>
		<description>14 - That is freaking hilarious. Great reference</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>14 &#8211; That is freaking hilarious. Great reference</p>
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		<title>By: busplunger</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/20/a-brief-return-to-the-clement-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-272927</link>
		<dc:creator>busplunger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 15:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5201#comment-272927</guid>
		<description>Hey look, Derek beat me to it. That&#039;s why he&#039;s number one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey look, Derek beat me to it. That&#8217;s why he&#8217;s number one.</p>
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		<title>By: busplunger</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/20/a-brief-return-to-the-clement-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-272926</link>
		<dc:creator>busplunger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 15:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5201#comment-272926</guid>
		<description>[dupe]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[dupe]</p>
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		<title>By: gwangung</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/20/a-brief-return-to-the-clement-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-272920</link>
		<dc:creator>gwangung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 15:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5201#comment-272920</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;â€œ..while other organizations would take young players and develop them, none of the Athleticsâ€™ young performers would ever progress an inch from the point at which they entered the league â€¦ Over the years, I have noted this effect, that when a good organization comes up with a young player that young player will develop, but when a weak organization comes up with a good young player he seems less likely to progress.â€

He went on to cite the reasoning: Bad organizations put undue pressure / undue expectations on young players, and the minute those arenâ€™t met, theyâ€™re shipped out. Whereas a good organzation waits, teaches, is patient. Bad organizations have â€œ..extreme instability, resulting in a truly remarkable lack of committment to their best young players.â€

Very many of them apply to the current Mâ€™s, who seem determined to be the last team in baseball not to employ a sabermetrician / modern day stats analyst to assist with their decision making
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

QFT, dammit!!!!

These guys don&#039;t know how to develop young players, and it&#039;s been systemic, persisting through decades.

And don&#039;t go quoting A-Rod or Jr...if a system is 50% worse than others, that still means it will OCCASIONALLY produce a good player.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>â€œ..while other organizations would take young players and develop them, none of the Athleticsâ€™ young performers would ever progress an inch from the point at which they entered the league â€¦ Over the years, I have noted this effect, that when a good organization comes up with a young player that young player will develop, but when a weak organization comes up with a good young player he seems less likely to progress.â€</p>
<p>He went on to cite the reasoning: Bad organizations put undue pressure / undue expectations on young players, and the minute those arenâ€™t met, theyâ€™re shipped out. Whereas a good organzation waits, teaches, is patient. Bad organizations have â€œ..extreme instability, resulting in a truly remarkable lack of committment to their best young players.â€</p>
<p>Very many of them apply to the current Mâ€™s, who seem determined to be the last team in baseball not to employ a sabermetrician / modern day stats analyst to assist with their decision making
</p></blockquote>
<p>QFT, dammit!!!!</p>
<p>These guys don&#8217;t know how to develop young players, and it&#8217;s been systemic, persisting through decades.</p>
<p>And don&#8217;t go quoting A-Rod or Jr&#8230;if a system is 50% worse than others, that still means it will OCCASIONALLY produce a good player.</p>
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