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	<title>Comments on: On blame skipping two levels</title>
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	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/26/on-blame-skipping-two-levels/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: et_blankenship</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/26/on-blame-skipping-two-levels/comment-page-2/#comment-275993</link>
		<dc:creator>et_blankenship</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 19:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5235#comment-275993</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;2. Team preparation. This shows itself in different ways, but you donâ€™t see everything. Missed cutoff men or ill-advised throws, players not on the base theyâ€™re supposed to be on. Pitches made to the batterâ€™s hot spot. From what we can see, Iâ€™d give McLaren a D for this, too.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

These are examples of basic baseball fundamentals, instincts every professional baseball player should have incorporated into his DNA by the time he finishes watching Tom Emanskiâ€™s instructional videos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>2. Team preparation. This shows itself in different ways, but you donâ€™t see everything. Missed cutoff men or ill-advised throws, players not on the base theyâ€™re supposed to be on. Pitches made to the batterâ€™s hot spot. From what we can see, Iâ€™d give McLaren a D for this, too.</p></blockquote>
<p>These are examples of basic baseball fundamentals, instincts every professional baseball player should have incorporated into his DNA by the time he finishes watching Tom Emanskiâ€™s instructional videos.</p>
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		<title>By: jspektor</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/26/on-blame-skipping-two-levels/comment-page-2/#comment-275946</link>
		<dc:creator>jspektor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 16:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5235#comment-275946</guid>
		<description>53 - His Dad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>53 &#8211; His Dad.</p>
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		<title>By: Axtell</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/26/on-blame-skipping-two-levels/comment-page-2/#comment-275899</link>
		<dc:creator>Axtell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 05:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5235#comment-275899</guid>
		<description>Every talking head had the M&#039;s contending for the title.

Every serious stat-based website had the M&#039;s contending for the cellar.

It&#039;s apparent M&#039;s management based their efforts on the talking heads instead of looking at objective stats. They decided to overlook last years RS/RA and inflated win totals and felt 2 new pitchers would be the push them over the top.  Every website I read that looked beyond wins and losses had the M&#039;s in trouble.

So it&#039;s not like the research wasn&#039;t out there that this team was going to suck. It&#039;s apparent that Bavasi feels each of the 25 men on the roster are collectively sucking, and, instead of taking ownership for some of those problems, he feels the need to dump on the guys going out every day and trying?

Do I think that players like Vidro (who I really, really think should be DFA&#039;ed) aren&#039;t trying? No, I don&#039;t. I simply think they&#039;re usefulness as players is gone.  But Bavasi thinks that a magical leadership dust would turn this disaster around?

How did this guy get to run a team again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every talking head had the M&#8217;s contending for the title.</p>
<p>Every serious stat-based website had the M&#8217;s contending for the cellar.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s apparent M&#8217;s management based their efforts on the talking heads instead of looking at objective stats. They decided to overlook last years RS/RA and inflated win totals and felt 2 new pitchers would be the push them over the top.  Every website I read that looked beyond wins and losses had the M&#8217;s in trouble.</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s not like the research wasn&#8217;t out there that this team was going to suck. It&#8217;s apparent that Bavasi feels each of the 25 men on the roster are collectively sucking, and, instead of taking ownership for some of those problems, he feels the need to dump on the guys going out every day and trying?</p>
<p>Do I think that players like Vidro (who I really, really think should be DFA&#8217;ed) aren&#8217;t trying? No, I don&#8217;t. I simply think they&#8217;re usefulness as players is gone.  But Bavasi thinks that a magical leadership dust would turn this disaster around?</p>
<p>How did this guy get to run a team again?</p>
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		<title>By: jHUGE</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/26/on-blame-skipping-two-levels/comment-page-2/#comment-275585</link>
		<dc:creator>jHUGE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 02:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5235#comment-275585</guid>
		<description>I hate to see Mac be a scapegoat. 
I would rather see Bavisi eat it, and the current roster be gutted first. Give Mac a chance with some young players in their prime (instead of over the hill--best years behind them &quot;experienced&quot; players)and see what he can do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to see Mac be a scapegoat.<br />
I would rather see Bavisi eat it, and the current roster be gutted first. Give Mac a chance with some young players in their prime (instead of over the hill&#8211;best years behind them &#8220;experienced&#8221; players)and see what he can do.</p>
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		<title>By: Breadbaker</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/26/on-blame-skipping-two-levels/comment-page-2/#comment-275534</link>
		<dc:creator>Breadbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 00:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5235#comment-275534</guid>
		<description>If managers and general managers were never culpable for on-field performance, it is curious why they are paid so much.  

I think you can divide a manager&#039;s performance into three parts:

1.  The really visible part:  lineups, onfield strategy.  I&#039;d give McLaren a D for that.

2.  Team preparation.  This shows itself in different ways, but you don&#039;t see everything.  Missed cutoff men or ill-advised throws, players not on the base they&#039;re supposed to be on.  Pitches made to the batter&#039;s hot spot.  From what we can see, I&#039;d give McLaren a D for this, too.

3.  Team cohesiveness.  Baseball is not an individual game, despite all you read about it.  The only players who don&#039;t have to interact with each other in the field are the right and left fielders.  Pitcher and catcher must be in synch.  First basemen must know which infielders have a tendency to bounce throws in the dirt and which ones have a tendency to sail throws high.  Cutoff men must line up and outfielders throws be made to be cutoff.  This is supposed to be taken care of in spring training.  When it&#039;s done well, the players play together like a well-oiled machine, and make plays that make you go wow!.  I&#039;d give McLaren a D on this, too.

The last bit is hard to see on most teams.  But you can see it on the M&#039;s by the way someone like Washburn will complain to the press about his catcher, and neither the manager nor a single player does anything about it (other than for McLaren to give the baby his rattle).  I can&#039;t imagine anyone on a Lou Piniella team making a press statement demeaning a teammate&#039;s performance; he&#039;d know he&#039;d have Lou to answer to and so he&#039;d never make the statement.  All those incredible plays we saw Erick Aybar make:  that&#039;s a hallmark of a Mike Scioscia managed team--they&#039;re always in position.  Notice how the Braves&#039; prospects always seem to blossom:  that&#039;s a hallmark of a Bobby Cox managed team (Lou never caught on to that one).  Different managers have different strengths.  Different managers are the right person for a team at a particular point in time (Joe Torre sucked managing the Mets, Braves and Cardinals; Lou couldn&#039;t have been more wrong for the Devil Rays).  And some managers have to get fired to learn a lesson (Bob Melvin being the most obvious example).  

All of which is a very long way to saying that it might not be McLaren&#039;s &quot;fault&quot;, but that is completely the wrong question to ask.  The right question is:  given where the team is today, is there someone who is the better person to turn the situation around.  That of course requires one to have a goal in mind.  Clearly, 2008 is not a playoff year here.  So the goal, imho, would be to determine what the future should look like.  If a manager is still running out Sexson, Vidro and Cairo, none of whom will be active major leaguers when this team next makes the playoffs, then that is the wrong manager for this team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If managers and general managers were never culpable for on-field performance, it is curious why they are paid so much.  </p>
<p>I think you can divide a manager&#8217;s performance into three parts:</p>
<p>1.  The really visible part:  lineups, onfield strategy.  I&#8217;d give McLaren a D for that.</p>
<p>2.  Team preparation.  This shows itself in different ways, but you don&#8217;t see everything.  Missed cutoff men or ill-advised throws, players not on the base they&#8217;re supposed to be on.  Pitches made to the batter&#8217;s hot spot.  From what we can see, I&#8217;d give McLaren a D for this, too.</p>
<p>3.  Team cohesiveness.  Baseball is not an individual game, despite all you read about it.  The only players who don&#8217;t have to interact with each other in the field are the right and left fielders.  Pitcher and catcher must be in synch.  First basemen must know which infielders have a tendency to bounce throws in the dirt and which ones have a tendency to sail throws high.  Cutoff men must line up and outfielders throws be made to be cutoff.  This is supposed to be taken care of in spring training.  When it&#8217;s done well, the players play together like a well-oiled machine, and make plays that make you go wow!.  I&#8217;d give McLaren a D on this, too.</p>
<p>The last bit is hard to see on most teams.  But you can see it on the M&#8217;s by the way someone like Washburn will complain to the press about his catcher, and neither the manager nor a single player does anything about it (other than for McLaren to give the baby his rattle).  I can&#8217;t imagine anyone on a Lou Piniella team making a press statement demeaning a teammate&#8217;s performance; he&#8217;d know he&#8217;d have Lou to answer to and so he&#8217;d never make the statement.  All those incredible plays we saw Erick Aybar make:  that&#8217;s a hallmark of a Mike Scioscia managed team&#8211;they&#8217;re always in position.  Notice how the Braves&#8217; prospects always seem to blossom:  that&#8217;s a hallmark of a Bobby Cox managed team (Lou never caught on to that one).  Different managers have different strengths.  Different managers are the right person for a team at a particular point in time (Joe Torre sucked managing the Mets, Braves and Cardinals; Lou couldn&#8217;t have been more wrong for the Devil Rays).  And some managers have to get fired to learn a lesson (Bob Melvin being the most obvious example).  </p>
<p>All of which is a very long way to saying that it might not be McLaren&#8217;s &#8220;fault&#8221;, but that is completely the wrong question to ask.  The right question is:  given where the team is today, is there someone who is the better person to turn the situation around.  That of course requires one to have a goal in mind.  Clearly, 2008 is not a playoff year here.  So the goal, imho, would be to determine what the future should look like.  If a manager is still running out Sexson, Vidro and Cairo, none of whom will be active major leaguers when this team next makes the playoffs, then that is the wrong manager for this team.</p>
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		<title>By: gottago</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/26/on-blame-skipping-two-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-275529</link>
		<dc:creator>gottago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 23:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5235#comment-275529</guid>
		<description>I love baseball and I have been a Mariners season ticket holder for 8 years.  But I&#039;m sick of Bavasi and he can&#039;t leave town soon enough.  I&#039;ll always go to the games.  But tonight I&#039;m wearing a Red Sox jersey and from here on out, I&#039;m pulling for the visiting team.  After that last pitiful road trip, I figure the more losses that pile up, the higher up the chain the firings will go.  Maybe even Woody.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love baseball and I have been a Mariners season ticket holder for 8 years.  But I&#8217;m sick of Bavasi and he can&#8217;t leave town soon enough.  I&#8217;ll always go to the games.  But tonight I&#8217;m wearing a Red Sox jersey and from here on out, I&#8217;m pulling for the visiting team.  After that last pitiful road trip, I figure the more losses that pile up, the higher up the chain the firings will go.  Maybe even Woody.</p>
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		<title>By: IMFletcher</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/26/on-blame-skipping-two-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-275519</link>
		<dc:creator>IMFletcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 22:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5235#comment-275519</guid>
		<description>Sorry Karen, but I was thinking to add 6 more to the remaining 4 bobblehead nights.

June 18th, Bloomquist (Dirty cap edition)
July 5th, Bedard (It gives 1 to 4 word answers)
August 4th, Dave Sims (non-HOF edition with enormous forehead)
August 26th, Ibanez (The head won&#039;t bobble that fast)
September 6th, Vidro (Professional bobblehead edition)
September 28th, Bavasi/McLaren 2-pack (each carrying suitcases)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Karen, but I was thinking to add 6 more to the remaining 4 bobblehead nights.</p>
<p>June 18th, Bloomquist (Dirty cap edition)<br />
July 5th, Bedard (It gives 1 to 4 word answers)<br />
August 4th, Dave Sims (non-HOF edition with enormous forehead)<br />
August 26th, Ibanez (The head won&#8217;t bobble that fast)<br />
September 6th, Vidro (Professional bobblehead edition)<br />
September 28th, Bavasi/McLaren 2-pack (each carrying suitcases)</p>
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		<title>By: Crushgroovin</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/26/on-blame-skipping-two-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-275512</link>
		<dc:creator>Crushgroovin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 21:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5235#comment-275512</guid>
		<description>I have read some national publications that blame the  current failure of veteran teams on the steroid era. GM&#039;s were spoiled by older players magically extending their careers due to the rampant use of steroids in MLB. Now that the steroid era is over older veteran players are not able to extend their careers by 3-5 years. Bat speeds slow, guys with bad knees become liabilities in the field, Pitchers lose 5-10 mph on their fastball and turn into batting practice pitchers. Meanwhile less veteran dominated teams are relying on youth to win. It is obvious to me that Bavasi is just trying to cover his own ass by blaming the players. I mean seriously does anyone really expect him to say &quot;wow I totally screwed this one up&quot; of course not he is going to go down with the ship all the while exclaiming that the Titanic is unsinkable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read some national publications that blame the  current failure of veteran teams on the steroid era. GM&#8217;s were spoiled by older players magically extending their careers due to the rampant use of steroids in MLB. Now that the steroid era is over older veteran players are not able to extend their careers by 3-5 years. Bat speeds slow, guys with bad knees become liabilities in the field, Pitchers lose 5-10 mph on their fastball and turn into batting practice pitchers. Meanwhile less veteran dominated teams are relying on youth to win. It is obvious to me that Bavasi is just trying to cover his own ass by blaming the players. I mean seriously does anyone really expect him to say &#8220;wow I totally screwed this one up&#8221; of course not he is going to go down with the ship all the while exclaiming that the Titanic is unsinkable.</p>
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		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/26/on-blame-skipping-two-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-275511</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 21:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5235#comment-275511</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a great comment with the attendance numbers, Karen. I hadn&#039;t looked up this year&#039;s gates in a while, and that&#039;s just... shocking.

It&#039;ll go up with the Red Sox series, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a great comment with the attendance numbers, Karen. I hadn&#8217;t looked up this year&#8217;s gates in a while, and that&#8217;s just&#8230; shocking.</p>
<p>It&#8217;ll go up with the Red Sox series, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/05/26/on-blame-skipping-two-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-275509</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 21:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5235#comment-275509</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;&quot;Adding 6 more bobblehead nights should get us back into the top 15.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

Unfortunately, there&#039;s only 4 more bobblehead nights left in this season...

June 13, Adrian
July 18, Felix
August 3, Dave Niehaus HOF
August 8, Yunieski

The OTHER &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;45&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; promotion nights ought to bring that average up to, say, 29,500 or so.  I&#039;ll bet it doesn&#039;t change the ranking one whit, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;Adding 6 more bobblehead nights should get us back into the top 15.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Unfortunately, there&#8217;s only 4 more bobblehead nights left in this season&#8230;</p>
<p>June 13, Adrian<br />
July 18, Felix<br />
August 3, Dave Niehaus HOF<br />
August 8, Yunieski</p>
<p>The OTHER <strong><em>45</em></strong> promotion nights ought to bring that average up to, say, 29,500 or so.  I&#8217;ll bet it doesn&#8217;t change the ranking one whit, though.</p>
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