Comments on: The supposed 30-day waiver rule http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/18/the-supposed-30-day-waiver-rule/ Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:19:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: jwb http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/18/the-supposed-30-day-waiver-rule/comment-page-1/#comment-297372 jwb Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:47:08 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5839#comment-297372 It appears the thirty day rule may not apply for assignment waivers, either. Bryan Corey (then with Boston, now with San Diego) was DFAed twice in April. So either the second DFA did not require waivers because it was in the same waiver period (then why not just outright him without the additional delay?) or a player can be waived twice in 30 days. Anybody here on good terms with Keith Law? Since this involves a current Padre, would this be a question Paul DePodesta might answer? It appears the thirty day rule may not apply for assignment waivers, either. Bryan Corey (then with Boston, now with San Diego) was DFAed twice in April. So either the second DFA did not require waivers because it was in the same waiver period (then why not just outright him without the additional delay?) or a player can be waived twice in 30 days.

Anybody here on good terms with Keith Law? Since this involves a current Padre, would this be a question Paul DePodesta might answer?

]]> By: Matt the Dragon http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/18/the-supposed-30-day-waiver-rule/comment-page-1/#comment-296977 Matt the Dragon Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:42:49 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5839#comment-296977 The 30 days is, I believe, originally [publicly] cited in an old Steve Phillips article on ESPN: ( http://tinyurl.com/5zslvf (on Insider now unfortunately) ) I think a certain gossip site not to be named later cited the article and that point. I'm reasonably sure it's not true. (I can't find for sure but a nagging memory suggests it should be 3 (three) not 30 (thirty).) If I recall correctly, and I quite possibly don't, the 30-day delay is not for trade waivers (i.e. those applicable in August for waiver trades) but for assignment waivers (i.e. where a player is DFA'd for re-assignment, removal from the 40-man or unconditional release.) Re-requesting trade waivers are specifically irrevocable waivers so the 30 day delay would make little sense (or none, depending on when the clock starts.) In theory with 30-day delay: Trade waivers come into effect following the non-waiver trade deadline, so the earliest a player could be placed on them would be 1st August. If the date the player was originally placed on waivers was used to start the 3-day period, those players for whom waivers were requested on that first day could then be re-requested on the 31st August and wouldn't therefore clear until September. Given that players must be on the roster prior to 1st September to be playoff eligible what would be the point? Ok, once in a blue moon a team right on the edge of a playoff spot with an injury gap might take a flyer on a player to get them there who can't then play in the postseason (filling for short-term injury, maybe?) but generally if you trade for the guy you want him on your post-season roster. That's certainly not proof (see the previous post for proof that MLB's rules do not need to make sense) but I'm pretty sure that it's an error. If I can find the correct rule I'll re-post (hopefully with less waffle and parentheses.) The 30 days is, I believe, originally [publicly] cited in an old Steve Phillips article on ESPN: ( http://tinyurl.com/5zslvf (on Insider now unfortunately) )

I think a certain gossip site not to be named later cited the article and that point.

I’m reasonably sure it’s not true. (I can’t find for sure but a nagging memory suggests it should be 3 (three) not 30 (thirty).)

If I recall correctly, and I quite possibly don’t, the 30-day delay is not for trade waivers (i.e. those applicable in August for waiver trades) but for assignment waivers (i.e. where a player is DFA’d for re-assignment, removal from the 40-man or unconditional release.)

Re-requesting trade waivers are specifically irrevocable waivers so the 30 day delay would make little sense (or none, depending on when the clock starts.)

In theory with 30-day delay: Trade waivers come into effect following the non-waiver trade deadline, so the earliest a player could be placed on them would be 1st August. If the date the player was originally placed on waivers was used to start the 3-day period, those players for whom waivers were requested on that first day could then be re-requested on the 31st August and wouldn’t therefore clear until September.

Given that players must be on the roster prior to 1st September to be playoff eligible what would be the point?

Ok, once in a blue moon a team right on the edge of a playoff spot with an injury gap might take a flyer on a player to get them there who can’t then play in the postseason (filling for short-term injury, maybe?) but generally if you trade for the guy you want him on your post-season roster.

That’s certainly not proof (see the previous post for proof that MLB’s rules do not need to make sense) but I’m pretty sure that it’s an error. If I can find the correct rule I’ll re-post (hopefully with less waffle and parentheses.)

]]> By: frannyzoo http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/18/the-supposed-30-day-waiver-rule/comment-page-1/#comment-296968 frannyzoo Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:45:00 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5839#comment-296968 Whenever I get mad at Strat-O-Matic for having arcane and ill-defined rules I'll refer to this thread and remember that the rules ain't terribly clear in the real world, either. *Bonus for the David Foster Wallace reference... Whenever I get mad at Strat-O-Matic for having arcane and ill-defined rules I’ll refer to this thread and remember that the rules ain’t terribly clear in the real world, either.

*Bonus for the David Foster Wallace reference…

]]> By: cdowley http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/18/the-supposed-30-day-waiver-rule/comment-page-1/#comment-296966 cdowley Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:19:15 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5839#comment-296966 Nevermind, this editor doesn't like fake code... Nevermind, this editor doesn’t like fake code…

]]> By: vj http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/18/the-supposed-30-day-waiver-rule/comment-page-1/#comment-296965 vj Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:55:07 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5839#comment-296965 Hoping this comment is more helpful than the last... On this page (http://soxprospects.wikispaces.com/Major+League+Rules - scuse me, I can't do HTML formatting without the tools on the page) they say that they don't have the actual rules but just summaries. Hoping this comment is more helpful than the last…
On this page (http://soxprospects.wikispaces.com/Major+League+Rules – scuse me, I can’t do HTML formatting without the tools on the page) they say that they don’t have the actual rules but just summaries.

]]> By: bakomariner http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/18/the-supposed-30-day-waiver-rule/comment-page-1/#comment-296964 bakomariner Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:48:09 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5839#comment-296964 If the 30 day rule is, in fact, correct, it just makes not getting rid of The Bus that much worse... He is at a total "sell high" time right now. Trading him in the off-season probably won't get us what we could have gotten from contenders needing him for the playoffs... They should have gotten any warm body they could if the other team was willing to take his salary... The Ms are DUUUUUUUUMB... If the 30 day rule is, in fact, correct, it just makes not getting rid of The Bus that much worse…

He is at a total “sell high” time right now. Trading him in the off-season probably won’t get us what we could have gotten from contenders needing him for the playoffs…

They should have gotten any warm body they could if the other team was willing to take his salary…

The Ms are DUUUUUUUUMB…

]]> By: Tuggler http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/18/the-supposed-30-day-waiver-rule/comment-page-1/#comment-296962 Tuggler Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:25:33 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5839#comment-296962 Brief and spotty legal research: the only Lexis-Nexis hit for Major League Rule 10 is in "Step Up to the Bargaining Table: A Call for the Unionization of Minor League Baseball," 14 Hofstra L.J. 265 (1996), which claims that the rules for waivers are reprinted in The Baseball Bluebook (1988). Doubtless they've changed since then, but does the Baseball Bluebook still exist in any form? Brief and spotty legal research: the only Lexis-Nexis hit for Major League Rule 10 is in “Step Up to the Bargaining Table: A Call for the Unionization of Minor League Baseball,” 14 Hofstra L.J. 265 (1996), which claims that the rules for waivers are reprinted in The Baseball Bluebook (1988). Doubtless they’ve changed since then, but does the Baseball Bluebook still exist in any form?

]]> By: DMZ http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/18/the-supposed-30-day-waiver-rule/comment-page-1/#comment-296961 DMZ Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:10:18 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5839#comment-296961 If that rules copy is correct, there is indeed such a rule: <blockquote> # If a request is withdrawn, waiver may not be requested on that same player for 30 days (except for Unconditional Release Waivers). </blockquote> I'll see if I can't double check that. If that rules copy is correct, there is indeed such a rule:

# If a request is withdrawn, waiver may not be requested on that same player for 30 days (except for Unconditional Release Waivers).

I’ll see if I can’t double check that.

]]> By: cdowley http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/18/the-supposed-30-day-waiver-rule/comment-page-1/#comment-296959 cdowley Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:04:11 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5839#comment-296959 <em>I don’t think the NFL or the NBA* publishes the rules for player transactions and stuff either.</em> I know the NFL's CBA is publicly published on the NFLPA website, or at least it was before the last revamp (haven't bothered to look since, their site is way too clunky now). I have a copy of it on my computer, it's a good guide on how player transactions work, tho a bear to read. And yes, screw the NBA. Preferably with something sharp and spiky... I don’t think the NFL or the NBA* publishes the rules for player transactions and stuff either.

I know the NFL’s CBA is publicly published on the NFLPA website, or at least it was before the last revamp (haven’t bothered to look since, their site is way too clunky now). I have a copy of it on my computer, it’s a good guide on how player transactions work, tho a bear to read.

And yes, screw the NBA. Preferably with something sharp and spiky…

]]> By: the other benno http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/18/the-supposed-30-day-waiver-rule/comment-page-1/#comment-296958 the other benno Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:58:02 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5839#comment-296958 This is a blog entry, but appears to be a copy of the MLB rules. My apologies if it turns out to be incorrect. The relevant info is the 4th bullet point in Section (C). http://soxprospects.wikispaces.com/Rule+10 This is a blog entry, but appears to be a copy of the MLB rules. My apologies if it turns out to be incorrect. The relevant info is the 4th bullet point in Section (C).

http://soxprospects.wikispaces.com/Rule+10

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