Comments on: Morrow to start next week versus Yankees http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/26/morrow-to-start-next-week-versus-yankees/ Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:19:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Silentpadna http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/26/morrow-to-start-next-week-versus-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-298404 Silentpadna Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:33:19 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5903#comment-298404 The easiest way to make the point in this "debate" is simply to take it to the extreme. If we want to use our best pitchers in relief, why not make Felix a closer. I'm sure he'd be outstanding at it. Or Pedro in his prime. Or the Unit. Lots of starting pitchers get their feet wet in the bullpen and it used to happen more often than it does today. Before the game started being managed around a 'stat', you'd never think of using your next horse as a lights out reliever. Lights out relievers are valuable, but there's a reason why suggesting Pedro or Unit as a closer would get laughed at. It amazes me how people don't use the same logic with respect to Joba or Morrow. Yeah, they haven't proven it yet, but how can they if you trap them in a role they're great at? And it's a role they *should* be great at. Why it's easier for some to move RRS to starter when he's good at relief than it is to move Morrow when he's great at relief is beyond me. Logic doesn't apply to that case in my eyes. The easiest way to make the point in this “debate” is simply to take it to the extreme. If we want to use our best pitchers in relief, why not make Felix a closer. I’m sure he’d be outstanding at it.

Or Pedro in his prime.

Or the Unit.

Lots of starting pitchers get their feet wet in the bullpen and it used to happen more often than it does today. Before the game started being managed around a ‘stat’, you’d never think of using your next horse as a lights out reliever. Lights out relievers are valuable, but there’s a reason why suggesting Pedro or Unit as a closer would get laughed at. It amazes me how people don’t use the same logic with respect to Joba or Morrow. Yeah, they haven’t proven it yet, but how can they if you trap them in a role they’re great at? And it’s a role they *should* be great at. Why it’s easier for some to move RRS to starter when he’s good at relief than it is to move Morrow when he’s great at relief is beyond me. Logic doesn’t apply to that case in my eyes.

]]> By: Benne http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/26/morrow-to-start-next-week-versus-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-298309 Benne Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:46:45 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5903#comment-298309 "Jim Caple (whom ESPN ostensibly retain for his humor, but who contributes more wisdom than most of their ’straight’ analysts) wrote a nice little attack on the concept of the “proven closer” earlier this year. and our friend Jonah Keri backed it up for good measure." ZOMG an ESPN article quoted WPA! This is why Keri is awesome, and why mainstream save-worshiping journalists are dumb. Jim Caple is my second-favorite ESPN writer behind Keri, mostly because he's one of the few ESPN guys that actually pays attention to Seattle sports. “Jim Caple (whom ESPN ostensibly retain for his humor, but who contributes more wisdom than most of their ’straight’ analysts) wrote a nice little attack on the concept of the “proven closer” earlier this year.
and our friend Jonah Keri backed it up for good measure.”

ZOMG an ESPN article quoted WPA! This is why Keri is awesome, and why mainstream save-worshiping journalists are dumb.

Jim Caple is my second-favorite ESPN writer behind Keri, mostly because he’s one of the few ESPN guys that actually pays attention to Seattle sports.

]]> By: DAMellen http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/26/morrow-to-start-next-week-versus-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-298300 DAMellen Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:12:54 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5903#comment-298300 Wouldn't worst case scenario be we turn him back into a relief pitcher? Wouldn’t worst case scenario be we turn him back into a relief pitcher?

]]> By: TotallyNotWilly http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/26/morrow-to-start-next-week-versus-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-298297 TotallyNotWilly Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:05:59 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5903#comment-298297 Morrow's line tonight: Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA Morrow 4.2 5 6 6 3 3 2 11.57 I was at the game tonight and I was certain there would be no chance he'd come up for his next start. He had poor control with a 1.5 / 1 strike to ball ratio. I guess they feel he'll learn more pitching to major leaguers. Morrow’s line tonight:

Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA

Morrow 4.2 5 6 6 3 3 2 11.57

I was at the game tonight and I was certain there would be no chance he’d come up for his next start. He had poor control with a 1.5 / 1 strike to ball ratio. I guess they feel he’ll learn more pitching to major leaguers.

]]> By: galaxieboi http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/26/morrow-to-start-next-week-versus-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-298239 galaxieboi Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:41:13 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5903#comment-298239 I look at ESPN.com about once or twice a year. The last time I looked at it I actually stumbled upon those two articles. Both are fantastic. Nice work, Colm. I look at ESPN.com about once or twice a year. The last time I looked at it I actually stumbled upon those two articles. Both are fantastic. Nice work, Colm.

]]> By: galaxieboi http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/26/morrow-to-start-next-week-versus-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-298237 galaxieboi Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:39:52 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5903#comment-298237 I'm going to go out on a limp and say more than 10-15 innings occur with a 3 run lead in the 9th, but your point more than stands. And, yes, Morrow did get moved a year and a half later than he should have. However, the fact that SOMEone up top is willing to look at him as a starter is kinda nice. I’m going to go out on a limp and say more than 10-15 innings occur with a 3 run lead in the 9th, but your point more than stands.

And, yes, Morrow did get moved a year and a half later than he should have. However, the fact that SOMEone up top is willing to look at him as a starter is kinda nice.

]]> By: Colm http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/26/morrow-to-start-next-week-versus-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-298236 Colm Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:37:55 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5903#comment-298236 Jim Caple (whom ESPN ostensibly retain for his humor, but who contributes more wisdom than most of their 'straight' analysts) wrote a nice little attack on the concept of the "proven closer" earlier this year. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/080805 and our friend Jonah Keri backed it up for good measure http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=krod/080805&sportCat=mlb Okay, it's preaching to the choir... Jim Caple (whom ESPN ostensibly retain for his humor, but who contributes more wisdom than most of their ‘straight’ analysts) wrote a nice little attack on the concept of the “proven closer” earlier this year. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/080805
and our friend Jonah Keri backed it up for good measure
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=krod/080805&sportCat=mlb

Okay, it’s preaching to the choir…

]]> By: andrew23 http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/26/morrow-to-start-next-week-versus-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-298231 andrew23 Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:29:11 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5903#comment-298231 80 high leverage innings could be more valuable than 200. Unfortunately, no one uses their closers that effectively, since *most* managers pitch to the save statistic, meaning 10-15 of those 80 innings occur with a 3 run lead and are essentially valueless. 80 high leverage innings could be more valuable than 200. Unfortunately, no one uses their closers that effectively, since *most* managers pitch to the save statistic, meaning 10-15 of those 80 innings occur with a 3 run lead and are essentially valueless.

]]> By: Axtell http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/26/morrow-to-start-next-week-versus-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-298229 Axtell Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:25:12 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5903#comment-298229 The scout has the same mindset as a vast majority of people in baseball...the same people who think that a pitcher who throws 80 late innings is somehow more valuable than a starter who throws 200+. The same people who think saves are important, the same people who think that K-rod having 50 saves should earn him Cy Young consideration. The scout has the same mindset as a vast majority of people in baseball…the same people who think that a pitcher who throws 80 late innings is somehow more valuable than a starter who throws 200+. The same people who think saves are important, the same people who think that K-rod having 50 saves should earn him Cy Young consideration.

]]> By: JR Ewing http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/08/26/morrow-to-start-next-week-versus-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-298227 JR Ewing Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:20:03 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=5903#comment-298227 Fair enough, I can't argue with your logic. Fair enough, I can’t argue with your logic.

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