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	<title>Comments on: Giants decided to prove Morrow better pick by destroying theirs</title>
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	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: Gomez</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/14/giants-decided-to-prove-morrow-better-pick-by-destroying-theirs/comment-page-1/#comment-300276</link>
		<dc:creator>Gomez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6109#comment-300276</guid>
		<description>I just had a thought.

To anyone who&#039;s watched Tim pitch in MLB a few times (I don&#039;t have MLB.tv, or else I&#039;d verify this myself): does he appear to labor and/or lose velocity/break on his pitches once he reaches the 110-120 pitch mark?  I&#039;d be a lot more worried if he was throwing the last 10-20 pitches of a 130 pitch start while gassed, than if he were running up that high because he felt fine.

I remember, watching his first MLB start, that he got gassed around the 90 pitch mark and lost a ton of velocity, but it was also his first start and nerves were certainly a factor.  When I watched him pitch at UW, he was usually able to maintain his pace and velocity right up to the end of his outings (though he often didn&#039;t finish those outings: 7 inning starts were common due to his erratic control).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just had a thought.</p>
<p>To anyone who&#8217;s watched Tim pitch in MLB a few times (I don&#8217;t have MLB.tv, or else I&#8217;d verify this myself): does he appear to labor and/or lose velocity/break on his pitches once he reaches the 110-120 pitch mark?  I&#8217;d be a lot more worried if he was throwing the last 10-20 pitches of a 130 pitch start while gassed, than if he were running up that high because he felt fine.</p>
<p>I remember, watching his first MLB start, that he got gassed around the 90 pitch mark and lost a ton of velocity, but it was also his first start and nerves were certainly a factor.  When I watched him pitch at UW, he was usually able to maintain his pace and velocity right up to the end of his outings (though he often didn&#8217;t finish those outings: 7 inning starts were common due to his erratic control).</p>
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		<title>By: Zero Gravitas</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/14/giants-decided-to-prove-morrow-better-pick-by-destroying-theirs/comment-page-1/#comment-300273</link>
		<dc:creator>Zero Gravitas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6109#comment-300273</guid>
		<description>Wow just saw this. This really bugs me even though I&#039;m not a Giants fan. I have seen Lincecum pitch down there and it&#039;s really exciting for baseball fans in general to have such a great young talent in the game. What they&#039;re doing is risking one of MLB&#039;s superstars of the future for absolutely no reason. There&#039;s so much evidence that this is a bad practice, I find it hard to believe that they would allow 138-pitch counts in any regular season game, let alone with this kid. He&#039;s a guy that they could build around if they were smarter.  Now you have to worry about his arm falling off before Spring Training even gets here next year. Bochy is either brainless or gutless - there really isn&#039;t any other explanation for this crap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow just saw this. This really bugs me even though I&#8217;m not a Giants fan. I have seen Lincecum pitch down there and it&#8217;s really exciting for baseball fans in general to have such a great young talent in the game. What they&#8217;re doing is risking one of MLB&#8217;s superstars of the future for absolutely no reason. There&#8217;s so much evidence that this is a bad practice, I find it hard to believe that they would allow 138-pitch counts in any regular season game, let alone with this kid. He&#8217;s a guy that they could build around if they were smarter.  Now you have to worry about his arm falling off before Spring Training even gets here next year. Bochy is either brainless or gutless &#8211; there really isn&#8217;t any other explanation for this crap.</p>
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		<title>By: dnc</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/14/giants-decided-to-prove-morrow-better-pick-by-destroying-theirs/comment-page-1/#comment-300269</link>
		<dc:creator>dnc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6109#comment-300269</guid>
		<description>As many have pointed out, Lincecum&#039;s pitch counts at UW were astronomical. As a Husky fan, I was calling for coach Ken Knutson&#039;s head throughout most of Lincecum&#039;s tenure there. Tim&#039;s control was twice as bad at UW, and hitters had less chance of hitting him anyway, so many would take, take, take, until his pitch counts were sky high. And Knutson did nothing.

Rest assured, Lincecum&#039;s high pitch counts in college had a lot to do with his fall to SF in the draft. Knutson cost Tim a lot of money.

It appears Bochy is determined to do the same thing.

Of course, there&#039;s always the chance that TL is the winner of the genetic lottery and is somehow able to handle all this just fine. The odds are stacked heavily against that though, and taking the risk is just foolish on SF&#039;s part.

It&#039;s a shame, too, because I love watching the kid pitch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As many have pointed out, Lincecum&#8217;s pitch counts at UW were astronomical. As a Husky fan, I was calling for coach Ken Knutson&#8217;s head throughout most of Lincecum&#8217;s tenure there. Tim&#8217;s control was twice as bad at UW, and hitters had less chance of hitting him anyway, so many would take, take, take, until his pitch counts were sky high. And Knutson did nothing.</p>
<p>Rest assured, Lincecum&#8217;s high pitch counts in college had a lot to do with his fall to SF in the draft. Knutson cost Tim a lot of money.</p>
<p>It appears Bochy is determined to do the same thing.</p>
<p>Of course, there&#8217;s always the chance that TL is the winner of the genetic lottery and is somehow able to handle all this just fine. The odds are stacked heavily against that though, and taking the risk is just foolish on SF&#8217;s part.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a shame, too, because I love watching the kid pitch.</p>
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		<title>By: bigred</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/14/giants-decided-to-prove-morrow-better-pick-by-destroying-theirs/comment-page-1/#comment-300242</link>
		<dc:creator>bigred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 06:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6109#comment-300242</guid>
		<description>I was in SanFran about a month ago, and heard the same ridiculous  comments juneau-fan heard on the local sports radio station.  This is clearly an example of the skipper caving to ignorant local media in an effort to save face with the fans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was in SanFran about a month ago, and heard the same ridiculous  comments juneau-fan heard on the local sports radio station.  This is clearly an example of the skipper caving to ignorant local media in an effort to save face with the fans.</p>
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		<title>By: Gomez</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/14/giants-decided-to-prove-morrow-better-pick-by-destroying-theirs/comment-page-1/#comment-300239</link>
		<dc:creator>Gomez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 05:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6109#comment-300239</guid>
		<description>Lincecum also threw a lot of pitches in college at UW.  120-130 pitch starts were not uncommon.  And then, after not icing his arm at all, he&#039;d play catch with coaches and teammates the day after, often standing near each foul pole while playing catch, so this wasn&#039;t soft toss at 60 feet.

So I&#039;m guessing Tim puts up with it because he doesn&#039;t think or feel that it&#039;s a big deal given his M.O.  That doesn&#039;t make it right, but that&#039;s the perspective the Giants are dealing with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lincecum also threw a lot of pitches in college at UW.  120-130 pitch starts were not uncommon.  And then, after not icing his arm at all, he&#8217;d play catch with coaches and teammates the day after, often standing near each foul pole while playing catch, so this wasn&#8217;t soft toss at 60 feet.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m guessing Tim puts up with it because he doesn&#8217;t think or feel that it&#8217;s a big deal given his M.O.  That doesn&#8217;t make it right, but that&#8217;s the perspective the Giants are dealing with.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Nye</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/14/giants-decided-to-prove-morrow-better-pick-by-destroying-theirs/comment-page-1/#comment-300236</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Nye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 04:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6109#comment-300236</guid>
		<description>Ugh, don&#039;t remind me. 

I read that article in SI (I got a few issues for free, I&#039;d never pay for it) and it made me queasy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh, don&#8217;t remind me. </p>
<p>I read that article in SI (I got a few issues for free, I&#8217;d never pay for it) and it made me queasy.</p>
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		<title>By: msb</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/14/giants-decided-to-prove-morrow-better-pick-by-destroying-theirs/comment-page-1/#comment-300235</link>
		<dc:creator>msb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 04:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6109#comment-300235</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Either his manager is forcing it, Lincecum is over and unnecessarily confident or heâ€™s gunning for a Cy Young. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I doubt Tim is going to think he can&#039;t handle it, with his dad telling him and everyone else that he could easily throw 160+ every outing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Either his manager is forcing it, Lincecum is over and unnecessarily confident or heâ€™s gunning for a Cy Young. </p></blockquote>
<p>I doubt Tim is going to think he can&#8217;t handle it, with his dad telling him and everyone else that he could easily throw 160+ every outing.</p>
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		<title>By: juneau_fan</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/14/giants-decided-to-prove-morrow-better-pick-by-destroying-theirs/comment-page-1/#comment-300233</link>
		<dc:creator>juneau_fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 03:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6109#comment-300233</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m down in Norcal working, and listen to the Giants games every day.

Lincecum was pulled in a previous start at 120 pitches with the lead and had it immediately coughed up by their crappy bullpen.  One of the radio personalities from KNBR, their flag station, was so enraged that he called and ranted for 5 minutes about how Lincecum isn&#039;t made of china and should have been left in.  

Lincecum&#039;s last start, he tried to complete the game, but got pulled after one batter in the ninth.  The score was much closer in that game, though.  This game, he batted in the 8th, up 3 nothing, and the Giants added 3 runs.  Surely they thought their bullpen, even their horrible gas-tossing closer, could hold a 6 run lead--it was about the CG.  They let him get two men on, then he managed to pump out a 95 MPH fastball for the strike out.  OUCH!  

They, and I get the impression he, are really gunning for the Cy Young.  It&#039;s all they talk about on their radio station.  There was a vague comment during today&#039;s game that the 138 pitches was the most by any pitcher this year, but there&#039;s been no criticism of the decision, and this isn&#039;t&#039; a homer station.  

They feel as though he needs at least one complete game to compete with Brandon Webb, because he&#039;s at 17 wins, while Webb is at 20.  But I completely expect him to last only three innings his next start, he won&#039;t get the Cy Young, and it&#039;ll all be for nothing.

The truly bizarre part of this attitude is, the Giants have lost plenty of pitchers to the falling off arm.  They managed to let Jason Schmidt go before his fell off, or there would have been another one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m down in Norcal working, and listen to the Giants games every day.</p>
<p>Lincecum was pulled in a previous start at 120 pitches with the lead and had it immediately coughed up by their crappy bullpen.  One of the radio personalities from KNBR, their flag station, was so enraged that he called and ranted for 5 minutes about how Lincecum isn&#8217;t made of china and should have been left in.  </p>
<p>Lincecum&#8217;s last start, he tried to complete the game, but got pulled after one batter in the ninth.  The score was much closer in that game, though.  This game, he batted in the 8th, up 3 nothing, and the Giants added 3 runs.  Surely they thought their bullpen, even their horrible gas-tossing closer, could hold a 6 run lead&#8211;it was about the CG.  They let him get two men on, then he managed to pump out a 95 MPH fastball for the strike out.  OUCH!  </p>
<p>They, and I get the impression he, are really gunning for the Cy Young.  It&#8217;s all they talk about on their radio station.  There was a vague comment during today&#8217;s game that the 138 pitches was the most by any pitcher this year, but there&#8217;s been no criticism of the decision, and this isn&#8217;t&#8217; a homer station.  </p>
<p>They feel as though he needs at least one complete game to compete with Brandon Webb, because he&#8217;s at 17 wins, while Webb is at 20.  But I completely expect him to last only three innings his next start, he won&#8217;t get the Cy Young, and it&#8217;ll all be for nothing.</p>
<p>The truly bizarre part of this attitude is, the Giants have lost plenty of pitchers to the falling off arm.  They managed to let Jason Schmidt go before his fell off, or there would have been another one.</p>
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		<title>By: Eastside Crank</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/14/giants-decided-to-prove-morrow-better-pick-by-destroying-theirs/comment-page-1/#comment-300231</link>
		<dc:creator>Eastside Crank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 01:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6109#comment-300231</guid>
		<description>I was not happy with Morrow pitching the 8th even though he had a no-hitter going in his first outing.  The chance of injury increases with tired arms trying to get critical outs.  I am not a big fan of trying to get statistics at the cost of the arm but after seeing how the Giants are abusing Lincecum I will keep quiet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was not happy with Morrow pitching the 8th even though he had a no-hitter going in his first outing.  The chance of injury increases with tired arms trying to get critical outs.  I am not a big fan of trying to get statistics at the cost of the arm but after seeing how the Giants are abusing Lincecum I will keep quiet.</p>
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		<title>By: galaxieboi</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/14/giants-decided-to-prove-morrow-better-pick-by-destroying-theirs/comment-page-1/#comment-300230</link>
		<dc:creator>galaxieboi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6109#comment-300230</guid>
		<description>Tim really doesn&#039;t have a choice in how many piches he throws.  The MLB fraternity does not look kindly upon some snot-nosed kid in his early 20&#039;s telling his bosses how much he can throw.  

The abuse is criminal.  Of course Timmy is going to say he feels fine.  He&#039;s already got to fight the &#039;under 6&#039;4&quot; and right-handed&#039; label.  Get a hint, Bochy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim really doesn&#8217;t have a choice in how many piches he throws.  The MLB fraternity does not look kindly upon some snot-nosed kid in his early 20&#8242;s telling his bosses how much he can throw.  </p>
<p>The abuse is criminal.  Of course Timmy is going to say he feels fine.  He&#8217;s already got to fight the &#8216;under 6&#8217;4&#8243; and right-handed&#8217; label.  Get a hint, Bochy.</p>
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