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	<title>Comments on: Current GM Handicapping: Post-season edition</title>
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	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/29/current-gm-handicapping-post-season-edition/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/29/current-gm-handicapping-post-season-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-301989</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6265#comment-301989</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s an updated one going up in a couple minutes. Patience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an updated one going up in a couple minutes. Patience.</p>
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		<title>By: Gomez</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/29/current-gm-handicapping-post-season-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-301987</link>
		<dc:creator>Gomez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6265#comment-301987</guid>
		<description>At the risk of sounding too pedantic, DePodesta&#039;s 10% chance needs to be redistributed among the remaining choices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the risk of sounding too pedantic, DePodesta&#8217;s 10% chance needs to be redistributed among the remaining choices.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/29/current-gm-handicapping-post-season-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-301958</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6265#comment-301958</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Olkin was only looking at whether adding Silva and Bedard would make the team likely to win more games in 2008. He was wrong about Silva and possibly right about Bedard, depending on whether the analysis was supposed to account for giving up Jones and Sherrill. But thereâ€™s nothing that would suggest he thought Silvaâ€™s contract was a good allocation of resources or the Bedard package was a wise decision over the long term.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s the way it seems to me as well.  I can see Olkin providing an analysis that shows Silva would be an improvement.  I can also see an Olkin analysis at one point that Silva is the best remaining FA pitcher, especially if durability is factored in. Or maybe he simply concludes that Silva is as good as any remaining free agent pitcher.

Bavasi and staff might then use that analysis to buttress their beliefs that Silva is the best option remaining.  Based on the conclusion, Bavasi would then establish what it would take to sign Silva, and conclude that contract is the going rate for getting help for the rotation. Nothing in the article suggests that Olkin provided any assessment as to whether signing Silva would be the most effective way to spend that money.

That scenario matches the bits that are known about Olkin&#039;s role; the Mariners ask him to look at specific players or situations and report back.  There&#039;s been no indication the team asks Olkin for bigger picture input.

Of course that illustrates a blind spot for the Mariners.  Lincoln and Armstrong apparently believe that by deploying Olkin in that fashion they are deploying advanced numeric analysis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Olkin was only looking at whether adding Silva and Bedard would make the team likely to win more games in 2008. He was wrong about Silva and possibly right about Bedard, depending on whether the analysis was supposed to account for giving up Jones and Sherrill. But thereâ€™s nothing that would suggest he thought Silvaâ€™s contract was a good allocation of resources or the Bedard package was a wise decision over the long term.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s the way it seems to me as well.  I can see Olkin providing an analysis that shows Silva would be an improvement.  I can also see an Olkin analysis at one point that Silva is the best remaining FA pitcher, especially if durability is factored in. Or maybe he simply concludes that Silva is as good as any remaining free agent pitcher.</p>
<p>Bavasi and staff might then use that analysis to buttress their beliefs that Silva is the best option remaining.  Based on the conclusion, Bavasi would then establish what it would take to sign Silva, and conclude that contract is the going rate for getting help for the rotation. Nothing in the article suggests that Olkin provided any assessment as to whether signing Silva would be the most effective way to spend that money.</p>
<p>That scenario matches the bits that are known about Olkin&#8217;s role; the Mariners ask him to look at specific players or situations and report back.  There&#8217;s been no indication the team asks Olkin for bigger picture input.</p>
<p>Of course that illustrates a blind spot for the Mariners.  Lincoln and Armstrong apparently believe that by deploying Olkin in that fashion they are deploying advanced numeric analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Snow</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/29/current-gm-handicapping-post-season-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-301955</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 02:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6265#comment-301955</guid>
		<description>Allow me to isolate the part of the quote that actually indicates what Olkin&#039;s analysis showed:

&lt;blockquote&gt;using analyses by Mariners statistical adviser Mat Olkin to show what the moves would mean in wins and losses.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Translation: Olkin was only looking at whether adding Silva and Bedard would make the team likely to win more games in 2008. He was wrong about Silva and possibly right about Bedard, depending on whether the analysis was supposed to account for giving up Jones and Sherrill. But there&#039;s nothing that would suggest he thought Silva&#039;s contract was a good allocation of resources or the Bedard package was a wise decision over the long term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allow me to isolate the part of the quote that actually indicates what Olkin&#8217;s analysis showed:</p>
<blockquote><p>using analyses by Mariners statistical adviser Mat Olkin to show what the moves would mean in wins and losses.</p></blockquote>
<p>Translation: Olkin was only looking at whether adding Silva and Bedard would make the team likely to win more games in 2008. He was wrong about Silva and possibly right about Bedard, depending on whether the analysis was supposed to account for giving up Jones and Sherrill. But there&#8217;s nothing that would suggest he thought Silva&#8217;s contract was a good allocation of resources or the Bedard package was a wise decision over the long term.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/29/current-gm-handicapping-post-season-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-301953</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6265#comment-301953</guid>
		<description>If, indeed, zackr&#039;s information is &quot;good&quot; and &quot;not speculative&quot; about Cashman, that would be right in line with Chuck &#039;N Howie&#039;s MO, which seems to be &quot;make a big splash&quot; -- even if in the past their MO has resulted in a series of bellyflops.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If, indeed, zackr&#8217;s information is &#8220;good&#8221; and &#8220;not speculative&#8221; about Cashman, that would be right in line with Chuck &#8216;N Howie&#8217;s MO, which seems to be &#8220;make a big splash&#8221; &#8212; even if in the past their MO has resulted in a series of bellyflops.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve T</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/29/current-gm-handicapping-post-season-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-301952</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6265#comment-301952</guid>
		<description>Or maybe Mat Olkin is a lousy analyst.

Or maybe Olkin was forced to use &quot;stats&quot; that Bavasi could wrap his mind around, like ERA and WHIP, but was specifically told that he could leave any post-McCracken ideas behind.

The mention of &quot;wins and losses&quot; gives us some hints, but that&#039;s not a particularly new concept. Unfortunately for the M&#039;s, it&#039;s not 1983, and you don&#039;t get SDCN bonus points just for knowing what park factor is any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or maybe Mat Olkin is a lousy analyst.</p>
<p>Or maybe Olkin was forced to use &#8220;stats&#8221; that Bavasi could wrap his mind around, like ERA and WHIP, but was specifically told that he could leave any post-McCracken ideas behind.</p>
<p>The mention of &#8220;wins and losses&#8221; gives us some hints, but that&#8217;s not a particularly new concept. Unfortunately for the M&#8217;s, it&#8217;s not 1983, and you don&#8217;t get SDCN bonus points just for knowing what park factor is any more.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Clapper</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/29/current-gm-handicapping-post-season-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-301947</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Clapper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6265#comment-301947</guid>
		<description>I was shocked by that quote about Olkin, too. The idea that Olkin believed Bedard for five players or Silva for a truckload of money for four years were statistically sound moves seems... improbable at best. I could see Olkin pointing to both of them as potentially being undervalued, but not to the degree to which the M&#039;s wound up overvaluing both of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was shocked by that quote about Olkin, too. The idea that Olkin believed Bedard for five players or Silva for a truckload of money for four years were statistically sound moves seems&#8230; improbable at best. I could see Olkin pointing to both of them as potentially being undervalued, but not to the degree to which the M&#8217;s wound up overvaluing both of them.</p>
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		<title>By: JJD</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/29/current-gm-handicapping-post-season-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-301946</link>
		<dc:creator>JJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6265#comment-301946</guid>
		<description>Apologies if this has been covered - I skimmed the comments and didn&#039;t see any mention of this quote from the Times&#039; article Sunday.

&lt;em&gt;Armstrong insists he isn&#039;t wedded to any one style and that a heavier use of statistical analysis will not necessarily be required. He points out that Bavasi convinced Lincoln and him to sign pitcher Carlos Silva and trade for pitcher Erik Bedard by using analyses by Mariners statistical adviser Mat Olkin to show what the moves would mean in wins and losses.&lt;/em&gt;

Either Bavasi misread the stats or Chuck&#039;s lying, right?  Especially in regards to Silva.  Either that, or possible Chuck made a comment about statistical analysis and it was extrapolated to mean what was written?

I mean, I&#039;d believe that were true if both moves weren&#039;t nearly universally panned (at the time) for one reason or another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies if this has been covered &#8211; I skimmed the comments and didn&#8217;t see any mention of this quote from the Times&#8217; article Sunday.</p>
<p><em>Armstrong insists he isn&#8217;t wedded to any one style and that a heavier use of statistical analysis will not necessarily be required. He points out that Bavasi convinced Lincoln and him to sign pitcher Carlos Silva and trade for pitcher Erik Bedard by using analyses by Mariners statistical adviser Mat Olkin to show what the moves would mean in wins and losses.</em></p>
<p>Either Bavasi misread the stats or Chuck&#8217;s lying, right?  Especially in regards to Silva.  Either that, or possible Chuck made a comment about statistical analysis and it was extrapolated to mean what was written?</p>
<p>I mean, I&#8217;d believe that were true if both moves weren&#8217;t nearly universally panned (at the time) for one reason or another.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Nye</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/29/current-gm-handicapping-post-season-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-301945</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Nye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6265#comment-301945</guid>
		<description>Hey, I sent a resume to the Mariners a while back, just for fun.

Howie, Chuck, give me a call!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I sent a resume to the Mariners a while back, just for fun.</p>
<p>Howie, Chuck, give me a call!</p>
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		<title>By: ceepdublu</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/29/current-gm-handicapping-post-season-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-301944</link>
		<dc:creator>ceepdublu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6265#comment-301944</guid>
		<description>Alas, the FO hasn&#039;t yet posted the GM job on their job board:

http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/mlb/help/jobs.jsp?c_id=sea

Not that they would, but that would be an interesting read...  &quot;Successful candidate must be able to evaluate talent using the team&#039;s &#039;niceness scale.&#039;  Prior history of increasing payroll and decreasing results is a must.  Statisticians need not apply.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alas, the FO hasn&#8217;t yet posted the GM job on their job board:</p>
<p><a href="http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/mlb/help/jobs.jsp?c_id=sea" rel="nofollow">http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/mlb/help/jobs.jsp?c_id=sea</a></p>
<p>Not that they would, but that would be an interesting read&#8230;  &#8220;Successful candidate must be able to evaluate talent using the team&#8217;s &#8216;niceness scale.&#8217;  Prior history of increasing payroll and decreasing results is a must.  Statisticians need not apply.&#8221;</p>
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