Comments on: The Template For Success in 2009 http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/02/02/the-template-for-success-in-2009/ Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:19:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Johnny Slick http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/02/02/the-template-for-success-in-2009/comment-page-2/#comment-311088 Johnny Slick Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:42:49 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=7190#comment-311088 Washburn isn't old enough to play for San Fran. :p Washburn isn’t old enough to play for San Fran. :p

]]> By: Osfan http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/02/02/the-template-for-success-in-2009/comment-page-2/#comment-311082 Osfan Wed, 04 Feb 2009 19:19:32 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=7190#comment-311082 I think it's easy to see which GM's do not buy into modern statistical analysis. Look at the teams that continue to make indefensible moves. San Fran, Washington, Houston, Both Chicagos, Detroit, Kansas City, and, to a lesser extent, Philly (no way to defend the Ibanez signing) and the Mets. I think it’s easy to see which GM’s do not buy into modern statistical analysis. Look at the teams that continue to make indefensible moves. San Fran, Washington, Houston, Both Chicagos, Detroit, Kansas City, and, to a lesser extent, Philly (no way to defend the Ibanez signing) and the Mets.

]]> By: Johnny Slick http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/02/02/the-template-for-success-in-2009/comment-page-2/#comment-311053 Johnny Slick Wed, 04 Feb 2009 04:01:56 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=7190#comment-311053 Given Bavasi, it actually wouldn't surprise me if the M's were the last team to figure that sort of thing out. Anyway, last or 15th or what have you isn't so much important; it doesn't matter whether Washington thinks highly of Washburn or not because they won't be able to afford him anyway. The intended market for a guy like Jarrod is a contender or a darkhorse contender with a need to fill at starting pitcher. Anyway, that wasn't really a rhetorical question I asked earlier. I would really like to know how many GMs in the league pay attention to stuff like this besides ERA. While I'm not convinced that betting your opponents will be less informed than you is a good strategy to take, if it's just the M's who understand this or just the M's and Theo and Billy, then great. I have an inkling that the hardcore scout-heavy GMs might have reached this way of thinking as well, albeit by other means. Given Bavasi, it actually wouldn’t surprise me if the M’s were the last team to figure that sort of thing out. Anyway, last or 15th or what have you isn’t so much important; it doesn’t matter whether Washington thinks highly of Washburn or not because they won’t be able to afford him anyway. The intended market for a guy like Jarrod is a contender or a darkhorse contender with a need to fill at starting pitcher.

Anyway, that wasn’t really a rhetorical question I asked earlier. I would really like to know how many GMs in the league pay attention to stuff like this besides ERA. While I’m not convinced that betting your opponents will be less informed than you is a good strategy to take, if it’s just the M’s who understand this or just the M’s and Theo and Billy, then great. I have an inkling that the hardcore scout-heavy GMs might have reached this way of thinking as well, albeit by other means.

]]> By: joser http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/02/02/the-template-for-success-in-2009/comment-page-2/#comment-311020 joser Tue, 03 Feb 2009 22:58:54 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=7190#comment-311020 <blockquote> My question is, how many GMs around the league are familiar with FIP and related pitching stats? Or more to the point, how many are *not* familiar with them? </blockquote> A year ago the Mariners didn't believe in FIP. Chuck Armstrong apparently still doesn't. Do you really think the Mariners were the <i>last</i> team in baseball to get on the clue train? There are still some pretty bad front offices out there, still well-mired in past decades.

My question is, how many GMs around the league are familiar with FIP and related pitching stats? Or more to the point, how many are *not* familiar with them?

A year ago the Mariners didn’t believe in FIP. Chuck Armstrong apparently still doesn’t. Do you really think the Mariners were the last team in baseball to get on the clue train? There are still some pretty bad front offices out there, still well-mired in past decades.

]]> By: Chase http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/02/02/the-template-for-success-in-2009/comment-page-2/#comment-310926 Chase Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:48:25 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=7190#comment-310926 I'm not trying to fill this blog with nothing but [deleted, off topic] I’m not trying to fill this blog with nothing but [deleted, off topic]

]]> By: Johnny Slick http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/02/02/the-template-for-success-in-2009/comment-page-2/#comment-310924 Johnny Slick Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:25:29 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=7190#comment-310924 My question is, how many GMs around the league are familiar with FIP and related pitching stats? Or more to the point, how many are *not* familiar with them? 10 years ago you could probably build an outfield like the one the M's have, use a guy like Washburn every 5th game, and then cash in when teams don't look past the ERA. Is that a worthwhile angle to pursue in today's game? As for the bullpen, I agree with Dave on this one. One of the little things that a good GM can do is cobble together a decent bullpen from a bunch of spare parts. To an extent I think that's what Z is doing with Aardsma and all the #5 starters he's picked up. Will it be the best bullpen in the history of mankind? No. Is the pen an area the Mariners should be working on improving. No, and as a matter of fact if teams are willing to toss in potential starting middle infielders in exchange for "veteran grit" (or whatever Heilman provides the Cubs what Olson doesn't) in the later innings, this is a good year for the M's to sell off their better-known parts. My question is, how many GMs around the league are familiar with FIP and related pitching stats? Or more to the point, how many are *not* familiar with them? 10 years ago you could probably build an outfield like the one the M’s have, use a guy like Washburn every 5th game, and then cash in when teams don’t look past the ERA. Is that a worthwhile angle to pursue in today’s game?

As for the bullpen, I agree with Dave on this one. One of the little things that a good GM can do is cobble together a decent bullpen from a bunch of spare parts. To an extent I think that’s what Z is doing with Aardsma and all the #5 starters he’s picked up. Will it be the best bullpen in the history of mankind? No. Is the pen an area the Mariners should be working on improving. No, and as a matter of fact if teams are willing to toss in potential starting middle infielders in exchange for “veteran grit” (or whatever Heilman provides the Cubs what Olson doesn’t) in the later innings, this is a good year for the M’s to sell off their better-known parts.

]]> By: TomTuttle http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/02/02/the-template-for-success-in-2009/comment-page-2/#comment-310922 TomTuttle Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:17:36 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=7190#comment-310922 <blockquote>More importantly, don’t you think that this is the sort of template you could follow for FUTURE success?</blockquote> Hmmmmmmmmmm, building a team around pitching and defense at a ballpark where you're supposed to build around pitching and defense? Makes sense to me. I do kind of wish we had some more thumpers in the lineup though. Just not at the expense of trades like Jeff Clement for Delmon Young as has been rumored and signing power guys with low batting averages like Adam Dunn for too much money.

More importantly, don’t you think that this is the sort of template you could follow for FUTURE success?

Hmmmmmmmmmm, building a team around pitching and defense at a ballpark where you’re supposed to build around pitching and defense?

Makes sense to me.

I do kind of wish we had some more thumpers in the lineup though.

Just not at the expense of trades like Jeff Clement for Delmon Young as has been rumored and signing power guys with low batting averages like Adam Dunn for too much money.

]]> By: Chase http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/02/02/the-template-for-success-in-2009/comment-page-2/#comment-310919 Chase Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:13:51 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=7190#comment-310919 I'll take your word for it then. But i'm going to stick with M's BP is the reason we don't win 81. I’ll take your word for it then. But i’m going to stick with M’s BP is the reason we don’t win 81.

]]> By: Dave http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/02/02/the-template-for-success-in-2009/comment-page-2/#comment-310918 Dave Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:10:59 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=7190#comment-310918 <em>If you knew the Ray’s were going to be good last year I would change my mind about sabermetrics and maybe even buy a Bill James book.</em> Okay, change your mind. I called the Rays an 85+ win team in 2008 at the end of '07, even before they had a good off-season and drastically improved their defense. It wasn't that hard to see coming. If you knew the Ray’s were going to be good last year I would change my mind about sabermetrics and maybe even buy a Bill James book.

Okay, change your mind. I called the Rays an 85+ win team in 2008 at the end of ’07, even before they had a good off-season and drastically improved their defense. It wasn’t that hard to see coming.

]]> By: sass http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/02/02/the-template-for-success-in-2009/comment-page-2/#comment-310917 sass Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:07:10 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=7190#comment-310917 Lol, wasn't it Dave who said the Rays would be at least the fifth best team in the American League? I would classify that as predicting they would be good. Lol, wasn’t it Dave who said the Rays would be at least the fifth best team in the American League? I would classify that as predicting they would be good.

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