Comments on: Should The Team Do The Unthinkable? http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/05/15/should-the-team-do-the-unthinkable/ Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:19:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: themedia http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/05/15/should-the-team-do-the-unthinkable/comment-page-3/#comment-328404 themedia Sun, 17 May 2009 01:11:20 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=8146#comment-328404 <blockquote>Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon is a hell of a package.</blockquote> Then maybe Z should call the Mets.

Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon is a hell of a package.

Then maybe Z should call the Mets.

]]> By: Jon http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/05/15/should-the-team-do-the-unthinkable/comment-page-3/#comment-328402 Jon Sun, 17 May 2009 00:29:22 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=8146#comment-328402 I see nothing--zero--that has changed in the last 4-5 years that makes Ichiro more tradeable or, better put, makes a trade more worthy of consideration except one thing: Ichiro is older. That's it. A surplus of outfield talent? Not even hypothetically more OF talent (assuming they draft this OF or that OF). Throughout the last 4-5 years they were always one or two trades away from stockpiling depth in the OF. Now is no different. The M's can go ahead and trade Ichiro if they want, but now is no better than before. If it makes sense now, then it has made sense for awhile. I see nothing–zero–that has changed in the last 4-5 years that makes Ichiro more tradeable or, better put, makes a trade more worthy of consideration except one thing: Ichiro is older. That’s it. A surplus of outfield talent? Not even hypothetically more OF talent (assuming they draft this OF or that OF). Throughout the last 4-5 years they were always one or two trades away from stockpiling depth in the OF. Now is no different. The M’s can go ahead and trade Ichiro if they want, but now is no better than before. If it makes sense now, then it has made sense for awhile.

]]> By: ivan http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/05/15/should-the-team-do-the-unthinkable/comment-page-3/#comment-328387 ivan Sat, 16 May 2009 17:59:51 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=8146#comment-328387 <blockquote>No one will ever again receive the package that Baltimore received, unless St. Louis trades Pujols, or Bavasi becomes a GM for another team.</blockquote> Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon is a hell of a package.

No one will ever again receive the package that Baltimore received, unless St. Louis trades Pujols, or Bavasi becomes a GM for another team.

Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon is a hell of a package.

]]> By: Lauren, token chick http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/05/15/should-the-team-do-the-unthinkable/comment-page-3/#comment-328364 Lauren, token chick Sat, 16 May 2009 07:23:57 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=8146#comment-328364 Hmm. According to baseball-reference.com, Ichiro tends to walk as much in the early months, if not more. So much for that argument. May is his worst month for being caught stealing, though! Hmm. According to baseball-reference.com, Ichiro tends to walk as much in the early months, if not more. So much for that argument. May is his worst month for being caught stealing, though!

]]> By: Lauren, token chick http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/05/15/should-the-team-do-the-unthinkable/comment-page-3/#comment-328362 Lauren, token chick Sat, 16 May 2009 07:08:19 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=8146#comment-328362 I'm with pinball. I have no shame in saying that Ichiro gives me something as a fan that isn't a rational calculation, and for that reason alone I want him kept here. But I do also think (and this is a large part of why he's appealed to me all along) that obviously he's a different type of player and doesn't fit into typical patterns. And he's a *smart* player; as someone said up above, if he realizes his results are diminishing he may well begin to approach hitting in a new way. My slightly more rational question is about this: <blockquote>He’s drawn three unintentional walks so far this year, putting him on pace to draw ~16 for the season. He usually draws between 25 and 35. He’s been caught stealing three times in eight attempts so far this year after being thrown out four times in 47 attempts last year.</blockquote> Isn't any part of the argument built on Ichiro's performance in April and the first half of May questionable? Out of his usual 25-35 unintentional walks, how many does he get this early in the season? I guess the caught stealing stat would be less affected by time of year. I’m with pinball. I have no shame in saying that Ichiro gives me something as a fan that isn’t a rational calculation, and for that reason alone I want him kept here. But I do also think (and this is a large part of why he’s appealed to me all along) that obviously he’s a different type of player and doesn’t fit into typical patterns. And he’s a *smart* player; as someone said up above, if he realizes his results are diminishing he may well begin to approach hitting in a new way.

My slightly more rational question is about this:

He’s drawn three unintentional walks so far this year, putting him on pace to draw ~16 for the season. He usually draws between 25 and 35. He’s been caught stealing three times in eight attempts so far this year after being thrown out four times in 47 attempts last year.

Isn’t any part of the argument built on Ichiro’s performance in April and the first half of May questionable? Out of his usual 25-35 unintentional walks, how many does he get this early in the season? I guess the caught stealing stat would be less affected by time of year.

]]> By: heyoka http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/05/15/should-the-team-do-the-unthinkable/comment-page-3/#comment-328280 heyoka Sat, 16 May 2009 04:09:09 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=8146#comment-328280 <blockquote> <blockquote> I don’t foresee Ich being unvaluable until he’s 39/40. </blockquote> Unvaluable? That’s unpossible! </blockquote> I knew it wasn't a word when I typed it. What the hell was I thinking? Hey, a counter thought to trading Ichiro. What if we're contending in 2010? This is, after all, still a relatively high budget team, and some crippling contracts are coming off the books.

I don’t foresee Ich being unvaluable until he’s 39/40.

Unvaluable? That’s unpossible!

I knew it wasn’t a word when I typed it. What the hell was I thinking?

Hey, a counter thought to trading Ichiro. What if we’re contending in 2010? This is, after all, still a relatively high budget team, and some crippling contracts are coming off the books.

]]> By: aaron c. http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/05/15/should-the-team-do-the-unthinkable/comment-page-3/#comment-328244 aaron c. Sat, 16 May 2009 03:18:17 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=8146#comment-328244 <blockquote>Have I been missing something about how this team has been winning a lot of games with pitching and defense without any power? Something’s got to change, doesn’t it?</blockquote> The thing you're missing is that there are many different ways to outscore your opponent. Fixating on one way to do so is a mistake.

Have I been missing something about how this team has been winning a lot of games with pitching and defense without any power? Something’s got to change, doesn’t it?

The thing you’re missing is that there are many different ways to outscore your opponent. Fixating on one way to do so is a mistake.

]]> By: The Ancient Mariner http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/05/15/should-the-team-do-the-unthinkable/comment-page-3/#comment-328214 The Ancient Mariner Sat, 16 May 2009 02:40:11 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=8146#comment-328214 <i>Have I been missing something about how this team has been winning a lot of games with pitching and defense without any power? Something’s got to change, doesn’t it?</i> Yeah -- better pitching. We've mostly been winning (when we've managed to) with good fielding making our pitching look better than it is. As for trading off our bad players first: no, because all you can get back for them is other bad players. (If that.) Have I been missing something about how this team has been winning a lot of games with pitching and defense without any power? Something’s got to change, doesn’t it?

Yeah — better pitching. We’ve mostly been winning (when we’ve managed to) with good fielding making our pitching look better than it is.

As for trading off our bad players first: no, because all you can get back for them is other bad players. (If that.)

]]> By: ppl http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/05/15/should-the-team-do-the-unthinkable/comment-page-3/#comment-328213 ppl Sat, 16 May 2009 02:39:58 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=8146#comment-328213 It obviously lies with Ichiro, he has to want to be traded, and would only go somewhere he wants to go. You gotta figure that he would only leave here if it meant going to a legitimate contender. And most likely a legitimate contender to win it all, and the Giants might not fit into that category in his eyes. If he prefers the West-Coast, and the M's don't want to deal him to a potential rival, the options are limited. I think the fanbase is split on this, but practically at his age, and with the M's current difficulties, a majority of fans would accept the idea. As a fan, I figure if the season becomes lost, I want them to do everything possible to build a great team as soon as can be done. If they could get some good pieces for the future from the Giants, I am all for it. Most likely the team would make it known that trading him was a possibility before actually doing that, and if it came out publically that he was willing to go to an Eastern team like the Mets, the specualtions could actually be fun to follow. It obviously lies with Ichiro, he has to want to be traded, and would only go somewhere he wants to go. You gotta figure that he would only leave here if it meant going to a legitimate contender.
And most likely a legitimate contender to win it all, and the Giants might not fit into that category in his eyes. If he prefers the West-Coast, and the M’s don’t want to deal him to a potential rival, the options are limited. I think the fanbase is split on this, but practically at his age, and with the M’s current difficulties, a majority of fans would accept the idea. As a fan, I figure if the season becomes lost, I want them to do everything possible to build a great team as soon as can be done. If they could get some good pieces for the future from the Giants, I am all for it. Most likely the team would make it known that trading him was a possibility before actually doing that, and if it came out publically that he was willing to go to an Eastern team like the Mets, the specualtions could actually be fun to follow.

]]> By: mark s http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/05/15/should-the-team-do-the-unthinkable/comment-page-3/#comment-328189 mark s Sat, 16 May 2009 02:23:44 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=8146#comment-328189 There is a reason this is unthinkable, because I cried just reading that post. If the M's were able to get a Bedard trade type package in exchange for Ichiro it would be understandable. Can't we trade off our bad players first? There is a reason this is unthinkable, because I cried just reading that post. If the M’s were able to get a Bedard trade type package in exchange for Ichiro it would be understandable.

Can’t we trade off our bad players first?

]]>