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	<title>Comments on: The End Of Yuniesky Betancourt</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff Nye</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/comment-page-3/#comment-333220</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Nye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8387#comment-333220</guid>
		<description>I think this topic has run its course.

Comments closed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this topic has run its course.</p>
<p>Comments closed.</p>
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		<title>By: Utis</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/comment-page-3/#comment-333214</link>
		<dc:creator>Utis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8387#comment-333214</guid>
		<description>rmac1973 I am responding only because I think you are mischaracterizing the exchange.  These things stay around for a while so I don&#039;t want to be misunderstood. So, here it is for the record.

1. Betancourt is underperforming.  Fact.
2. He has not worked to improve his skills.  Fact.
3. He has not listened to coaches or teammates.  Fact.
4. Betancourt underperforms because he is lazy.  He is a waste of time and space.  Opinion.  You might argue it is informed opinion but it is still an opinion.  It is so heavily dependent on a cultural frame of reference that some people regard it as self evident.
5. I find statement 4 objectionable.  Fact.
6. The reasons for objecting to 4 are bogus PC correctness.  Opinion.
7. The reasons for objecting to 4 are valid.  Opinion.
8. Some people value plain speaking.  Fact.
9. Some people value civility and sensitivity. Fact.
Opinions will be heavily influenced by your culture and life experiences.
Letâ€™s agree to disagree.
Peace</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rmac1973 I am responding only because I think you are mischaracterizing the exchange.  These things stay around for a while so I don&#8217;t want to be misunderstood. So, here it is for the record.</p>
<p>1. Betancourt is underperforming.  Fact.<br />
2. He has not worked to improve his skills.  Fact.<br />
3. He has not listened to coaches or teammates.  Fact.<br />
4. Betancourt underperforms because he is lazy.  He is a waste of time and space.  Opinion.  You might argue it is informed opinion but it is still an opinion.  It is so heavily dependent on a cultural frame of reference that some people regard it as self evident.<br />
5. I find statement 4 objectionable.  Fact.<br />
6. The reasons for objecting to 4 are bogus PC correctness.  Opinion.<br />
7. The reasons for objecting to 4 are valid.  Opinion.<br />
8. Some people value plain speaking.  Fact.<br />
9. Some people value civility and sensitivity. Fact.<br />
Opinions will be heavily influenced by your culture and life experiences.<br />
Letâ€™s agree to disagree.<br />
Peace</p>
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		<title>By: Jim_H</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/comment-page-3/#comment-333181</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim_H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8387#comment-333181</guid>
		<description>[moderation complaint]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[moderation complaint]</p>
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		<title>By: rmac1973</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/comment-page-3/#comment-333180</link>
		<dc:creator>rmac1973</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8387#comment-333180</guid>
		<description>Utis,

I don&#039;t think anyone labeled anyone&#039;s opinion &quot;good&quot; or &quot;bad&quot;; rather, it seems there is a more effective means of expressing displeasure with Yuniesky Betancourt.

His inability to maintain good physical condition and keep his body weight where it needs to be in order to be a MLB shortstop displays a lack of respect - for himself, his employer, and his co-workers - on his part.  The terms &quot;fat&quot;, &quot;lazy&quot; and &quot;stupid&quot; might seem to be hurtful, in which case if we were all in a sensitivity training class then they would all be a big no-no.

However, the value judgment being made against Yuni to which you refer is based &lt;em&gt;solely&lt;/em&gt; on his inability to:

a) perform his job as required
b) effort to improve his skills
c) effort to maintain his skills at their current level
d) maintain good physical condition

This is not a snap judgment based on one missed off-day BP session and a few poor decisions in the batters box in recent weeks - this has been going on for &lt;em&gt;nearly two years&lt;/em&gt;, and four different managers and countless teammates have (as reported by dozens of journalists) tried and failed at inspiring him to do the bare minimum.

I understand the PC ideals, and it&#039;s neat that you embrace it so dearly.  But this isn&#039;t a matter of making any kind of judgment on the type of person YuBet is outside of the baseball world.  He might very well be a great buddy with whom fishing trips result in epic adventures and fantastic tales of impossibility.  He might spend his off-season time teaching blind kids how to read braille.  Maybe he mops the floor of the Sistine Chapel for free every Saturday in winter.  Good for him if that&#039;s the case.

But, in the world of baseball... he has &lt;em&gt;become&lt;/em&gt; fat, and he has &lt;em&gt;displayed&lt;/em&gt; laziness and stupidity on and off the field.  Those traits have directly and adversely affected his ability to perform the duties of the job he was hired to do.  He has &lt;em&gt;efforted his way out&lt;/em&gt; of being an MLB-caliber baseball player.

It&#039;s not really a debatable topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Utis,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone labeled anyone&#8217;s opinion &#8220;good&#8221; or &#8220;bad&#8221;; rather, it seems there is a more effective means of expressing displeasure with Yuniesky Betancourt.</p>
<p>His inability to maintain good physical condition and keep his body weight where it needs to be in order to be a MLB shortstop displays a lack of respect &#8211; for himself, his employer, and his co-workers &#8211; on his part.  The terms &#8220;fat&#8221;, &#8220;lazy&#8221; and &#8220;stupid&#8221; might seem to be hurtful, in which case if we were all in a sensitivity training class then they would all be a big no-no.</p>
<p>However, the value judgment being made against Yuni to which you refer is based <em>solely</em> on his inability to:</p>
<p>a) perform his job as required<br />
b) effort to improve his skills<br />
c) effort to maintain his skills at their current level<br />
d) maintain good physical condition</p>
<p>This is not a snap judgment based on one missed off-day BP session and a few poor decisions in the batters box in recent weeks &#8211; this has been going on for <em>nearly two years</em>, and four different managers and countless teammates have (as reported by dozens of journalists) tried and failed at inspiring him to do the bare minimum.</p>
<p>I understand the PC ideals, and it&#8217;s neat that you embrace it so dearly.  But this isn&#8217;t a matter of making any kind of judgment on the type of person YuBet is outside of the baseball world.  He might very well be a great buddy with whom fishing trips result in epic adventures and fantastic tales of impossibility.  He might spend his off-season time teaching blind kids how to read braille.  Maybe he mops the floor of the Sistine Chapel for free every Saturday in winter.  Good for him if that&#8217;s the case.</p>
<p>But, in the world of baseball&#8230; he has <em>become</em> fat, and he has <em>displayed</em> laziness and stupidity on and off the field.  Those traits have directly and adversely affected his ability to perform the duties of the job he was hired to do.  He has <em>efforted his way out</em> of being an MLB-caliber baseball player.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not really a debatable topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/comment-page-3/#comment-333179</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8387#comment-333179</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll take credit for that last edit assuming it&#039;ll spare Dave/DMZ some grief. You don&#039;t get to dress up metacomplaints with on topic discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll take credit for that last edit assuming it&#8217;ll spare Dave/DMZ some grief. You don&#8217;t get to dress up metacomplaints with on topic discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Utis</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/comment-page-3/#comment-333178</link>
		<dc:creator>Utis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8387#comment-333178</guid>
		<description>There is no good or bad on this issue.  There are just different points of view.  Which side you end up in will depend on what you value.  If you all understand where I am coming from a little better then that is good.  I understand the counter argument even if I don&#039;t agree.

I have no beef with the management here.  They provide the soapbox and have not censored anything I&#039;ve written.  I could not ask for more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no good or bad on this issue.  There are just different points of view.  Which side you end up in will depend on what you value.  If you all understand where I am coming from a little better then that is good.  I understand the counter argument even if I don&#8217;t agree.</p>
<p>I have no beef with the management here.  They provide the soapbox and have not censored anything I&#8217;ve written.  I could not ask for more.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: aaron c.</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/comment-page-3/#comment-333174</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron c.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8387#comment-333174</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Utis,

You have committed the unforgivable sin of disagreeing with the management here. Itâ€™s worse than being a bad spellar.

Unfortunately there is a forest/trees problem with people not wanting to understand what you are trying to say. Instead they are twisting your words to mean what they want them to mean and using them against you.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Or maybe he just made a really bad argument. No? I&#039;m not capable of thinking for myself? Oh. Well, okay...I guess you&#039;re right. I am now sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Utis,</p>
<p>You have committed the unforgivable sin of disagreeing with the management here. Itâ€™s worse than being a bad spellar.</p>
<p>Unfortunately there is a forest/trees problem with people not wanting to understand what you are trying to say. Instead they are twisting your words to mean what they want them to mean and using them against you.</p></blockquote>
<p>Or maybe he just made a really bad argument. No? I&#8217;m not capable of thinking for myself? Oh. Well, okay&#8230;I guess you&#8217;re right. I am now sad.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jim_H</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/comment-page-3/#comment-333173</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim_H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8387#comment-333173</guid>
		<description>Utis,

[Hello. I am being a passive aggressive tool.

Love,
Jim H]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Utis,</p>
<p>[Hello. I am being a passive aggressive tool.</p>
<p>Love,<br />
Jim H]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Utis</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/comment-page-3/#comment-333169</link>
		<dc:creator>Utis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 06:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8387#comment-333169</guid>
		<description>Dave, there is a big difference between political correctness and pleas for civility and fairness.  No one is arguing that Betancourt&#039;s performance hasn&#039;t sucked.  No one is arguing that there should not be consequences for his performance.  No one is accusing anyone of racism.  If you are lumping in my remarks with other inconsequential pleas for political correctness then I have failed in communicating my concerns.
I have been and will continue to be a supporter of the writing at this web site.  On this issue, weâ€™ll just have to disagree.
Peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, there is a big difference between political correctness and pleas for civility and fairness.  No one is arguing that Betancourt&#8217;s performance hasn&#8217;t sucked.  No one is arguing that there should not be consequences for his performance.  No one is accusing anyone of racism.  If you are lumping in my remarks with other inconsequential pleas for political correctness then I have failed in communicating my concerns.<br />
I have been and will continue to be a supporter of the writing at this web site.  On this issue, weâ€™ll just have to disagree.<br />
Peace.</p>
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		<title>By: SonOfZavaras</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/comment-page-3/#comment-333164</link>
		<dc:creator>SonOfZavaras</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8387#comment-333164</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;If Betancourt wants to actually put in a little bit of effort to live up to the abilities he was born with, great. But he needs to do that in Tacoma, and earn his way back to the major leagues by showing that he cares enough to make himself into a guy who deserves to be here. If that never happens, so be it - Iâ€™m perfectly happy never having to watch him play baseball again.&lt;/em&gt;

Hells. Yes. And AMEN.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>If Betancourt wants to actually put in a little bit of effort to live up to the abilities he was born with, great. But he needs to do that in Tacoma, and earn his way back to the major leagues by showing that he cares enough to make himself into a guy who deserves to be here. If that never happens, so be it &#8211; Iâ€™m perfectly happy never having to watch him play baseball again.</em></p>
<p>Hells. Yes. And AMEN.</p>
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