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	<title>Comments on: Five hundred. Fiiiiive hundred.</title>
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	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/20/five-hundred-fiiiiive-hundred/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: qwerty</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/20/five-hundred-fiiiiive-hundred/comment-page-1/#comment-334785</link>
		<dc:creator>qwerty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8510#comment-334785</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still inclined to SELL/Buy. This team could get hot and contend into September, but they aren&#039;t a playoff-caliber team. They really need to improve for &#039;10 and beyond. But if they get the right players in, they can keep their pace up. Dave&#039;s written well about it.
Bottom line: don&#039;t Stand Pat!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still inclined to SELL/Buy. This team could get hot and contend into September, but they aren&#8217;t a playoff-caliber team. They really need to improve for &#8217;10 and beyond. But if they get the right players in, they can keep their pace up. Dave&#8217;s written well about it.<br />
Bottom line: don&#8217;t Stand Pat!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Snow</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/20/five-hundred-fiiiiive-hundred/comment-page-1/#comment-334746</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8510#comment-334746</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;So anytime Gutierrez needs a rest (I donâ€™t even want to think about him being unavailable for other reasons) Ronny Cedeno is your Marinersâ€™ center fielder.&lt;/em&gt;

They did run Balentien out there in center last year. I know the Cubs played Cedeno for an inning in center once, but I&#039;d be inclined to pick the guy who&#039;s actually an outfielder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>So anytime Gutierrez needs a rest (I donâ€™t even want to think about him being unavailable for other reasons) Ronny Cedeno is your Marinersâ€™ center fielder.</em></p>
<p>They did run Balentien out there in center last year. I know the Cubs played Cedeno for an inning in center once, but I&#8217;d be inclined to pick the guy who&#8217;s actually an outfielder.</p>
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		<title>By: wabbles</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/20/five-hundred-fiiiiive-hundred/comment-page-1/#comment-334619</link>
		<dc:creator>wabbles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8510#comment-334619</guid>
		<description>Sweeney hitting fourth? Don&#039;t you put hitters like Sweeney at eight or nine or on the bench and put one of your best hitters at fourth?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sweeney hitting fourth? Don&#8217;t you put hitters like Sweeney at eight or nine or on the bench and put one of your best hitters at fourth?</p>
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		<title>By: dirk</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/20/five-hundred-fiiiiive-hundred/comment-page-1/#comment-334613</link>
		<dc:creator>dirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8510#comment-334613</guid>
		<description>Wow.

I. Suzuki rf 
C. Woodward 3b 
M. Carp 1b   
M. Sweeney dh  
F. Gutierrez cf 
W. Balentien lf 
Y. Betancourt ss  
J. Burke c 
R. Cedeno 2b</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.</p>
<p>I. Suzuki rf<br />
C. Woodward 3b<br />
M. Carp 1b<br />
M. Sweeney dh<br />
F. Gutierrez cf<br />
W. Balentien lf<br />
Y. Betancourt ss<br />
J. Burke c<br />
R. Cedeno 2b</p>
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		<title>By: joser</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/20/five-hundred-fiiiiive-hundred/comment-page-1/#comment-334612</link>
		<dc:creator>joser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8510#comment-334612</guid>
		<description>Speaking of adversity, check out today&#039;s lineup:
No Endy; no Lopez; no Beltre; no Branyan; no Griffey; no Aardsma.  (Griffey is available to pinch hit; Aardsma just needs a rest)

So we have: Carp at 1st, Cedeno at 2nd, Woodward at 3rd.  Betancourt is going to look even more bewildered out there than usual.

One ugly thing that I hadn&#039;t thought about until now: Endy was the backup CF.  So anytime Gutierrez needs a rest (I don&#039;t even want to think about him being unavailable for other reasons) Ronny Cedeno is your Mariners&#039; center fielder.  Those of you wondering about him getting DFA&#039;d, consider that his job security.  Of course Ichiro could do it, but I don&#039;t think that&#039;s all that appealing to anybody either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of adversity, check out today&#8217;s lineup:<br />
No Endy; no Lopez; no Beltre; no Branyan; no Griffey; no Aardsma.  (Griffey is available to pinch hit; Aardsma just needs a rest)</p>
<p>So we have: Carp at 1st, Cedeno at 2nd, Woodward at 3rd.  Betancourt is going to look even more bewildered out there than usual.</p>
<p>One ugly thing that I hadn&#8217;t thought about until now: Endy was the backup CF.  So anytime Gutierrez needs a rest (I don&#8217;t even want to think about him being unavailable for other reasons) Ronny Cedeno is your Mariners&#8217; center fielder.  Those of you wondering about him getting DFA&#8217;d, consider that his job security.  Of course Ichiro could do it, but I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s all that appealing to anybody either.</p>
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		<title>By: Breadbaker</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/20/five-hundred-fiiiiive-hundred/comment-page-1/#comment-334610</link>
		<dc:creator>Breadbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8510#comment-334610</guid>
		<description>The difference between 2008 and 2009 is that the team seeks to fix problems in a consistent way.  This year&#039;s team has had a remarkable amount of adversity, with four original staters going down for at least one stretch, three on the DL, two for most of the year, a closer completely blowing up, two DL stints by the starting catcher, even Ichiro missing eight games.  They&#039;re .500 and the manager doesn&#039;t take crap from anyone.  I like to watch them.

So I&#039;m heading down to Safeco.  It&#039;s Father&#039;s Day and Felix Day, a perfect combination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference between 2008 and 2009 is that the team seeks to fix problems in a consistent way.  This year&#8217;s team has had a remarkable amount of adversity, with four original staters going down for at least one stretch, three on the DL, two for most of the year, a closer completely blowing up, two DL stints by the starting catcher, even Ichiro missing eight games.  They&#8217;re .500 and the manager doesn&#8217;t take crap from anyone.  I like to watch them.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m heading down to Safeco.  It&#8217;s Father&#8217;s Day and Felix Day, a perfect combination.</p>
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		<title>By: SonOfZavaras</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/20/five-hundred-fiiiiive-hundred/comment-page-1/#comment-334608</link>
		<dc:creator>SonOfZavaras</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8510#comment-334608</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;We donâ€™t know whatâ€™ll happen next, if theyâ€™ll sell, or buy and sell, or how the season will goâ€¦ but to see them claw their way back up after that May collapse makes me happy.&lt;/em&gt;

Me, too. This team has already provided about three times the entertainment value that the 2008 edition did. For me, anyway.

I think it&#039;s pretty clear the Rangers are anything but a lock for the division title this year. But then of course, the $64,000 question is to forego 2009 and sell off....or acquire young ML pieces to contend for this year and beyond.

We may well want to go for it this year, simply on the grounds that the Rangers are about a year away from having a real shot to hold the AL West for a looooong time- that farm system of theirs is nothing short of stacked.

Their offense on paper even now beats the living crap out of ours.

The &quot;Re-building by trading in 2009&quot; option has been made more difficult in that there are injury concerns for virtually every piece we have to offer, with maybe the exception of Aardsma.

Even if they prove to be rarin&#039; to go, those concerns dilute their value, and the return for them.

Moreover, there&#039;s about six teams that have already figured they&#039;re not going anywhere in 2009, and have just as many attractive pieces to sell as we do, if not more. 

(For instance: The Indians&#039; Cliff Lee will be wearing a different uniform by August 1st, I&#039;d put money on it right now.)

With those things in mind, &quot;going for it&quot; seems the natural course.

But going for it makes for a quandary or two: trading for players who are already in the major-leagues and who could contribute right now to the lineup...well, that might get expensive in terms of what you have to give up.

Someone go ahead and tell me &quot;yer wrong&quot; if I am, but it seems to me that ML-ready talent has more value (and therefore expensive) than what raw, A-ball-level, &quot;could-be-lightning-in-a-bottle&quot; talent would be.

One thing I&#039;m reasonably sure on is that Zduriencik is still looking at all the options- there&#039;s no definitive game plan yet. 

I just don&#039;t think he anticipated the Rangers and Angels being this vulnerable, at this point in the season. I wonder how much it changes things.

It&#039;s dificult- but not impossible- to improve a ML roster and keep your young talent in the system largely intact. 

Jack Zduriencik has a few very important moments in his GM career coming up. Let&#039;s hope the calls he makes are definingly good ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>We donâ€™t know whatâ€™ll happen next, if theyâ€™ll sell, or buy and sell, or how the season will goâ€¦ but to see them claw their way back up after that May collapse makes me happy.</em></p>
<p>Me, too. This team has already provided about three times the entertainment value that the 2008 edition did. For me, anyway.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s pretty clear the Rangers are anything but a lock for the division title this year. But then of course, the $64,000 question is to forego 2009 and sell off&#8230;.or acquire young ML pieces to contend for this year and beyond.</p>
<p>We may well want to go for it this year, simply on the grounds that the Rangers are about a year away from having a real shot to hold the AL West for a looooong time- that farm system of theirs is nothing short of stacked.</p>
<p>Their offense on paper even now beats the living crap out of ours.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Re-building by trading in 2009&#8243; option has been made more difficult in that there are injury concerns for virtually every piece we have to offer, with maybe the exception of Aardsma.</p>
<p>Even if they prove to be rarin&#8217; to go, those concerns dilute their value, and the return for them.</p>
<p>Moreover, there&#8217;s about six teams that have already figured they&#8217;re not going anywhere in 2009, and have just as many attractive pieces to sell as we do, if not more. </p>
<p>(For instance: The Indians&#8217; Cliff Lee will be wearing a different uniform by August 1st, I&#8217;d put money on it right now.)</p>
<p>With those things in mind, &#8220;going for it&#8221; seems the natural course.</p>
<p>But going for it makes for a quandary or two: trading for players who are already in the major-leagues and who could contribute right now to the lineup&#8230;well, that might get expensive in terms of what you have to give up.</p>
<p>Someone go ahead and tell me &#8220;yer wrong&#8221; if I am, but it seems to me that ML-ready talent has more value (and therefore expensive) than what raw, A-ball-level, &#8220;could-be-lightning-in-a-bottle&#8221; talent would be.</p>
<p>One thing I&#8217;m reasonably sure on is that Zduriencik is still looking at all the options- there&#8217;s no definitive game plan yet. </p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t think he anticipated the Rangers and Angels being this vulnerable, at this point in the season. I wonder how much it changes things.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s dificult- but not impossible- to improve a ML roster and keep your young talent in the system largely intact. </p>
<p>Jack Zduriencik has a few very important moments in his GM career coming up. Let&#8217;s hope the calls he makes are definingly good ones.</p>
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		<title>By: joser</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/20/five-hundred-fiiiiive-hundred/comment-page-1/#comment-334607</link>
		<dc:creator>joser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8510#comment-334607</guid>
		<description>According to 2nd and 3rd order wins (which have some predictive value) in BP&#039;s current &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/standings.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Adjusted Standings&lt;/a&gt;, the M&#039;s and the Rangers are essentially indistinguishable .500 teams, and the Angels are only a few games better.  Of course you&#039;d expect that Angels lead to double over the second half of the season (especially if you believe that their just-off-the-DL-and-pitching-like-it starters return to form).  But that suggests two things: the M&#039;s are a legit .500 team, and (baring unforeseen critical injuries) this is going to be a tight division right through the summer.  And both of those constituted my &lt;i&gt;best&lt;/i&gt; case scenario for the &#039;09 season, so I&#039;m pretty happy at this point.  

(One interesting thing about those BP numbers: looking at third-order wins, it would appear the M&#039;s have faced better-than-average pitching and worse-than-average hitting.  So the offense may not be quite as bad as we think, and the pitching -- especially the bullpen -- may not be quite as solid as it seems.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to 2nd and 3rd order wins (which have some predictive value) in BP&#8217;s current <a href="http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/standings.php" rel="nofollow">Adjusted Standings</a>, the M&#8217;s and the Rangers are essentially indistinguishable .500 teams, and the Angels are only a few games better.  Of course you&#8217;d expect that Angels lead to double over the second half of the season (especially if you believe that their just-off-the-DL-and-pitching-like-it starters return to form).  But that suggests two things: the M&#8217;s are a legit .500 team, and (baring unforeseen critical injuries) this is going to be a tight division right through the summer.  And both of those constituted my <i>best</i> case scenario for the &#8217;09 season, so I&#8217;m pretty happy at this point.  </p>
<p>(One interesting thing about those BP numbers: looking at third-order wins, it would appear the M&#8217;s have faced better-than-average pitching and worse-than-average hitting.  So the offense may not be quite as bad as we think, and the pitching &#8212; especially the bullpen &#8212; may not be quite as solid as it seems.)</p>
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		<title>By: Paul B</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/20/five-hundred-fiiiiive-hundred/comment-page-1/#comment-334606</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 16:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8510#comment-334606</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The Ms started the season embodying accountability and it showed&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You had me going, I thought you were serious.  Until I got to the 

&lt;blockquote&gt;selfish rbi single from Ichiro&lt;/blockquote&gt;

which gave it away.

I&#039;m not looking forward to the road trip, which includes New York and Boston.  And the M&#039;s have a starting lineup with Johnson, Woodward, Yuni, Wlad, an injured Beltre who can&#039;t swing the bat (at least, he looked sick on the 3 at bats he did have last night), and Sweeney hitting for a gimpy Junior against righties.

Not pretty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Ms started the season embodying accountability and it showed</p></blockquote>
<p>You had me going, I thought you were serious.  Until I got to the </p>
<blockquote><p>selfish rbi single from Ichiro</p></blockquote>
<p>which gave it away.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not looking forward to the road trip, which includes New York and Boston.  And the M&#8217;s have a starting lineup with Johnson, Woodward, Yuni, Wlad, an injured Beltre who can&#8217;t swing the bat (at least, he looked sick on the 3 at bats he did have last night), and Sweeney hitting for a gimpy Junior against righties.</p>
<p>Not pretty.</p>
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		<title>By: terry</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/06/20/five-hundred-fiiiiive-hundred/comment-page-1/#comment-334605</link>
		<dc:creator>terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=8510#comment-334605</guid>
		<description>The Ms started the season embodying accountability and it showed with a 12-6 record. Then the backsliding came. Thank goodness they (the Ms) had a team meeting or something on May 26th following a loss which included a selfish rbi single from Ichiro. Since then guys seem to be getting held accountable again. And it shows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Ms started the season embodying accountability and it showed with a 12-6 record. Then the backsliding came. Thank goodness they (the Ms) had a team meeting or something on May 26th following a loss which included a selfish rbi single from Ichiro. Since then guys seem to be getting held accountable again. And it shows.</p>
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