<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Roster Construction Theory</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/10/12/roster-construction-theor/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/10/12/roster-construction-theor/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:19:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mariners2620</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/10/12/roster-construction-theor/comment-page-1/#comment-353228</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariners2620</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9502#comment-353228</guid>
		<description>The Mariners organization has already talked about the want to get faster. The Mariners 2001 lineup had alot of speed which obviously led to alot of success. I don&#039;t know how they intend on getting faster this off season, but can&#039;t wait to see what they pull off. It is easy to say just go out and grab Chone Figgins and Carl Crawford, because those are both areas in which we need to improve, with Beltre departing and Saunders not quite proven at the plate yet. Figgins and Crawford both offer exceptional defense along with a consistent bat, but they will both be looking for lots of money which the Mariners do not have much of in which they can just go out and throw around to a different variety of players. Get a trade for Escobar and Fielder and we are set until Ackley is ready to play in the bigs out in LF. I wish it was that easy, because that sounds like a solid team. Looking forward to your off-season play Dave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mariners organization has already talked about the want to get faster. The Mariners 2001 lineup had alot of speed which obviously led to alot of success. I don&#8217;t know how they intend on getting faster this off season, but can&#8217;t wait to see what they pull off. It is easy to say just go out and grab Chone Figgins and Carl Crawford, because those are both areas in which we need to improve, with Beltre departing and Saunders not quite proven at the plate yet. Figgins and Crawford both offer exceptional defense along with a consistent bat, but they will both be looking for lots of money which the Mariners do not have much of in which they can just go out and throw around to a different variety of players. Get a trade for Escobar and Fielder and we are set until Ackley is ready to play in the bigs out in LF. I wish it was that easy, because that sounds like a solid team. Looking forward to your off-season play Dave.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mkale</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/10/12/roster-construction-theor/comment-page-1/#comment-353220</link>
		<dc:creator>mkale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9502#comment-353220</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;re giving a greater number of years to a higher-WAR player, isn&#039;t that taking on more risk?  (That they get injured in year 2 out of 8 and their WAR gets cut in half or goes down to zero after that.)

You&#039;re committing ($/Win * Wins * #years) in both cases, so the two three win players are likely getting less total money than the one six win player.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re giving a greater number of years to a higher-WAR player, isn&#8217;t that taking on more risk?  (That they get injured in year 2 out of 8 and their WAR gets cut in half or goes down to zero after that.)</p>
<p>You&#8217;re committing ($/Win * Wins * #years) in both cases, so the two three win players are likely getting less total money than the one six win player.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adam Guttridge</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/10/12/roster-construction-theor/comment-page-1/#comment-353212</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Guttridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9502#comment-353212</guid>
		<description>Dave,

Well written post.

However, the point about linearity in terms of $/win.... I&#039;m not sure you&#039;re correct there. Have you got a link for Tango&#039;s work? I did some work (on my CPU in storage... yikes) that came to the conclusion that the inflation of 2004-2007 was driven largely by mid market guys.... as in, the Pujols&#039; and Manny&#039;s and Jeter&#039;s of the world did not experience nearly the amount of inflation during that period as did the Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko types. It&#039;s an important point.

Also, have you seen the Guttridge-Wang trade model? http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/applying-the-guttridge-wang-trade-model-to-this-years-deadline-trades/

Eminently relatable stuff. 

--Adam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>Well written post.</p>
<p>However, the point about linearity in terms of $/win&#8230;. I&#8217;m not sure you&#8217;re correct there. Have you got a link for Tango&#8217;s work? I did some work (on my CPU in storage&#8230; yikes) that came to the conclusion that the inflation of 2004-2007 was driven largely by mid market guys&#8230;. as in, the Pujols&#8217; and Manny&#8217;s and Jeter&#8217;s of the world did not experience nearly the amount of inflation during that period as did the Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko types. It&#8217;s an important point.</p>
<p>Also, have you seen the Guttridge-Wang trade model? <a href="http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/applying-the-guttridge-wang-trade-model-to-this-years-deadline-trades/" rel="nofollow">http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/applying-the-guttridge-wang-trade-model-to-this-years-deadline-trades/</a></p>
<p>Eminently relatable stuff. </p>
<p>&#8211;Adam</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/10/12/roster-construction-theor/comment-page-1/#comment-353211</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9502#comment-353211</guid>
		<description>It has definitely been shown, by Tango and others, that teams pay about $X per win for free agents, paying linearly per win.  (Meaning that it isnt $X * W^1.5 or $X * W^2 or something like that).  A team pays the same for a player that is expected to be a 6 win player, as they do for two 3 win players.

My question is: Is this the correct strategy, or are the baseball general managers collectively making a mistake?

If I had the option of a 6 win player and 0 win player, or for the same cost I could have two 3 win players, I would prefer to have the 6 win player.  This is because I have a good chance of finding an undervalued 1 win player to replace the 0 win player with, who I can get for essentially free.  (For example, see the Mariners acquisition of Ryan Langerhans).  The club with a few stars and a bunch of replacement level players is easy to upgrade.  The club with a lot of 3 win players is hard to upgrade.  I would rather pay a lot for my stars, and then try to fill in other spots with undervalued bargains.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has definitely been shown, by Tango and others, that teams pay about $X per win for free agents, paying linearly per win.  (Meaning that it isnt $X * W^1.5 or $X * W^2 or something like that).  A team pays the same for a player that is expected to be a 6 win player, as they do for two 3 win players.</p>
<p>My question is: Is this the correct strategy, or are the baseball general managers collectively making a mistake?</p>
<p>If I had the option of a 6 win player and 0 win player, or for the same cost I could have two 3 win players, I would prefer to have the 6 win player.  This is because I have a good chance of finding an undervalued 1 win player to replace the 0 win player with, who I can get for essentially free.  (For example, see the Mariners acquisition of Ryan Langerhans).  The club with a few stars and a bunch of replacement level players is easy to upgrade.  The club with a lot of 3 win players is hard to upgrade.  I would rather pay a lot for my stars, and then try to fill in other spots with undervalued bargains.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris_From_Bothell</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/10/12/roster-construction-theor/comment-page-1/#comment-353210</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris_From_Bothell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9502#comment-353210</guid>
		<description>Still can&#039;t find best way to estimate WAR or projected WAR for minor league players, to estimate total value of package you get back in your average trade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still can&#8217;t find best way to estimate WAR or projected WAR for minor league players, to estimate total value of package you get back in your average trade.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: 6-4-3</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/10/12/roster-construction-theor/comment-page-1/#comment-353208</link>
		<dc:creator>6-4-3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9502#comment-353208</guid>
		<description>I admit this is tangentially related at best to the topic, but [tangentially related at best to the topic]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admit this is tangentially related at best to the topic, but [tangentially related at best to the topic]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bookbook</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/10/12/roster-construction-theor/comment-page-1/#comment-353206</link>
		<dc:creator>bookbook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 05:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9502#comment-353206</guid>
		<description>&quot;The premium players get one tangible payoff that non-premium players do not, and thatâ€™s contract length.&quot;

I hope this doesn&#039;t seem like nitpicking, but the premium players absolutely are getting paid more per win added via the contract length mechanism. When you give A-Rod a contract that guarantees to pay him like a 6-win player for his age 39 season ten years in the future, it&#039;s not because you think he&#039;s going to defy aging and/or the vagaries of injury. It&#039;s because you can&#039;t just pay him $4 million per win for the total wins you expect him to produce and get the deal done. Heck, when you give any pitcher a 5-year contract, year 5 can be seen largely as a deferred signing bonus and applied to the $/win of years 1 to 4. Ok, that&#039;s an overstatement, but clearly the projected wins in the out years for a 6-win player decay from the baseline. Yet, the contracts usually guarantee payment at a fairly steady level. The difference is deferred premium for the added value of the concentration of wins in the early years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The premium players get one tangible payoff that non-premium players do not, and thatâ€™s contract length.&#8221;</p>
<p>I hope this doesn&#8217;t seem like nitpicking, but the premium players absolutely are getting paid more per win added via the contract length mechanism. When you give A-Rod a contract that guarantees to pay him like a 6-win player for his age 39 season ten years in the future, it&#8217;s not because you think he&#8217;s going to defy aging and/or the vagaries of injury. It&#8217;s because you can&#8217;t just pay him $4 million per win for the total wins you expect him to produce and get the deal done. Heck, when you give any pitcher a 5-year contract, year 5 can be seen largely as a deferred signing bonus and applied to the $/win of years 1 to 4. Ok, that&#8217;s an overstatement, but clearly the projected wins in the out years for a 6-win player decay from the baseline. Yet, the contracts usually guarantee payment at a fairly steady level. The difference is deferred premium for the added value of the concentration of wins in the early years.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bookbook</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/10/12/roster-construction-theor/comment-page-1/#comment-353205</link>
		<dc:creator>bookbook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 05:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9502#comment-353205</guid>
		<description>&quot;how the best way to build wealth is to spread your investments around in order to avoid losing too much due to the failure of any one asset.&quot;

I&#039;m not going to argue against your main point, Dave, but your example didn&#039;t work for me:
 The best way to build wealth actually is to put all your eggs in a very few baskets if your goal is to be wealthy, and you&#039;re willing to accept the consequences of poor performance. Arguably, this is exactly the situation in Major league baseball (especially before the playoffs were expanded). Winning 88 games doesn&#039;t actually get you much closer to a world series pennant than winning 58. As the Indians have proven, sustaining long, gradual rebuilding phases is about as easy as maintaining a world beating offense of exclusively singles hitters.

The M&#039;s braintrust is better equipped than most to execute a stars-and-scrubs strategy (they recognize the hidden value needed to get almost-average production for peanuts). As you posted weeks ago, the team needs stars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;how the best way to build wealth is to spread your investments around in order to avoid losing too much due to the failure of any one asset.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to argue against your main point, Dave, but your example didn&#8217;t work for me:<br />
 The best way to build wealth actually is to put all your eggs in a very few baskets if your goal is to be wealthy, and you&#8217;re willing to accept the consequences of poor performance. Arguably, this is exactly the situation in Major league baseball (especially before the playoffs were expanded). Winning 88 games doesn&#8217;t actually get you much closer to a world series pennant than winning 58. As the Indians have proven, sustaining long, gradual rebuilding phases is about as easy as maintaining a world beating offense of exclusively singles hitters.</p>
<p>The M&#8217;s braintrust is better equipped than most to execute a stars-and-scrubs strategy (they recognize the hidden value needed to get almost-average production for peanuts). As you posted weeks ago, the team needs stars.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Snow</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/10/12/roster-construction-theor/comment-page-1/#comment-353204</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9502#comment-353204</guid>
		<description>Pete, I&#039;m not sure of all the differences, so I&#039;ll just highlight those I can identify. Fangraphs bases its fielding numbers on UZR, whereas BaseballProjection.com simply estimates range from play-by-play data (which is what allows it to go back before we had zone-based hit location data). They also appear to be using different replacement thresholds, as Fangraphs gives Ichiro a pretty consistent 2 runs credit per season extra for the gap between replacement and average. I&#039;m not sure what the basis is, because the theory for where they set replacement level sounds the same, but that translates into 0.2 WAR worth of difference. There are also big variations in the batting values. Both sites are a kind of park-adjusted linear weights, it seems, but I don&#039;t see much information on how the BaseballProjection.com weights are determined, so that&#039;s about as much as I can explain (it would probably tax my math skills to explain more than this even if the information was provided).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete, I&#8217;m not sure of all the differences, so I&#8217;ll just highlight those I can identify. Fangraphs bases its fielding numbers on UZR, whereas BaseballProjection.com simply estimates range from play-by-play data (which is what allows it to go back before we had zone-based hit location data). They also appear to be using different replacement thresholds, as Fangraphs gives Ichiro a pretty consistent 2 runs credit per season extra for the gap between replacement and average. I&#8217;m not sure what the basis is, because the theory for where they set replacement level sounds the same, but that translates into 0.2 WAR worth of difference. There are also big variations in the batting values. Both sites are a kind of park-adjusted linear weights, it seems, but I don&#8217;t see much information on how the BaseballProjection.com weights are determined, so that&#8217;s about as much as I can explain (it would probably tax my math skills to explain more than this even if the information was provided).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pete Livengood</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/10/12/roster-construction-theor/comment-page-1/#comment-353199</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Livengood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9502#comment-353199</guid>
		<description>Mike (or Dave or anybody who knows) - How are the historical WAR values calculated differently on Fangraphs and BaseballProjection.com?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike (or Dave or anybody who knows) &#8211; How are the historical WAR values calculated differently on Fangraphs and BaseballProjection.com?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

