Comments on: Ichiro Wins GG, Gutierrez Does Not

By: Breadbaker

Breadbaker — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:10:29 +0000

From Poz's great article (and you really should read the whole thing because it's funny all the way through):

Do me a favor, no matter how you may feel about defensive numbers: Just look at those again. Compare them. Please? Everyone here knows I love these stats, but even if you think they are irreparably flawed â€” could they be THAT WRONG? His [i.e., Guti's] plus minus is SIXTY THREE PLAYS better than Adam Jones. His UZR suggests he saved more than THIRTY RUNS more Torii Hunter. Could they be that wrong?

Thanks, Joe. Come to the next USSM event, we'll buy you a beer. Even two.

By: Shrike

Shrike — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:53:25 +0000

Posnanski has a great blog post up about this. Needless to say, he wrote that Gutierrez was robbed.

By: ClaytonMiles

ClaytonMiles — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:40:21 +0000

Instead of repeating the obvious, I'd just like to thank Franklin Gutierrez for the best season of OF defense I have ever seen. I'll be watching his highlights all winter. And in retrospect, you should take a moment to read Dave's post from Dec. 10, 2008 about how good Franklin Gutierrez would be for the Ms at defense. Absolute money.

By: TranquilPsychosis

TranquilPsychosis — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:23:06 +0000

Unfortunately, they used it to show how Jeter compared to other short stops.

Sorry to ask, but, what other position should they compare him to? He is a SS after all…

By: Carson

Carson — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:04:50 +0000

Argh.

ESPN actually just spoke about UZR (huzzah, fangraphs plug!).

Unfortunately, they used it to show how Jeter compared to other short stops.

Jack Wilson left off the list (I guess I can understand why), but if someone at ESPN is looking at UZR and puts it on the air, how do their eyes not pop out when they see Gutierrez’s number?

By: DMZ

DMZ — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 03:49:33 +0000

Arb cases are advancing quite quickly in recent years, but they’re certainly not using UZR (etc) yet. Power Point’s a pretty new innovation in the world of arbitration cases.

By: TerryMc

TerryMc — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 03:30:31 +0000

I wonder if any of the teams or player agents use the crazy sabertmetric indexes when arguing their arbitration cases, ’cause ya know it’s all made up just like that global warming thing.

It is worth pointing out that Jeter did an amazing turnaround in posting a 6.6UZR and 8.4UZR/150 this last season which is a tiny bit better than his -15.3UZR and -16.7UZR/150 in 2007. If his fielding increase stands over the next season or two (instead of in hindsight being cherry-picked low and high numbers out of his career) then teams/players/agents should really look at his off-season and how he targeted skills to allow him to be equally well to the left and right. I never much cared for Jeter but if he did work hard and intelligently to improve this late in his career, good for him.

By: josh_h

josh_h — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:29:08 +0000

My apologies for the messed up hyperlink… (Edit button please)

By: josh_h

josh_h — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:27:18 +0000

Jeter’s eye-popping defensive work wasn’t accidental. He committed eight errors in 554 chances — the league’s eight other shortstops with 500-plus chances averaged 17 errors — the season after his reputation was stung by various sabermetrics indexes that had him as the lowest-ranked shortstop in the Major Leagues.

From the MLB.com article.

I love how this is written to give the reader the impression that “sabermetrics indexes” are somehow not valid… like they are a fringe science…
Particularly since the article doesn’t give any reference to any range based defensive evaluation for 2009′s performance – simply errors committed (fielding percentage).

“Be aware of those crazy sabermetrics indexes!”

By: Joe C

Joe C — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:02:31 +0000

I’m no expert on fielding and who should win a gold glove, but in my opinion, if you were to pick three outfielder seasons in the last ten to award a gold glove… Gutierrez would have to win one for last year. I hope Gutierrez is even better next year.