Comments on: Griffey to return in 2010, Stone reports http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/ Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:19:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: daddydriz http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/comment-page-1/#comment-354771 daddydriz Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:40:42 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/#comment-354771 We are losing Bill Hall or Ryan Langerhans? Well, there goes the championship rings for 2010. We are losing Bill Hall or Ryan Langerhans? Well, there goes the championship rings for 2010.

]]> By: swershow http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/comment-page-1/#comment-354729 swershow Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:33:14 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/#comment-354729 Alllllright. I surrender. You've done the work on Lopez I suppose. I absolutely agree with everyone in the thread (as stated in my first post) that the roster spot could be better used on someone else. However, I absolutely disagree with the assertion that Griffey can't hit. He brings positives to the table and those qualities should be mentioned too. Either way, he's back, so lets hope for the best. Alllllright. I surrender. You’ve done the work on Lopez I suppose.
I absolutely agree with everyone in the thread (as stated in my first post) that the roster spot could be better used on someone else. However, I absolutely disagree with the assertion that Griffey can’t hit. He brings positives to the table and those qualities should be mentioned too. Either way, he’s back, so lets hope for the best.

]]> By: Alex http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/comment-page-1/#comment-354719 Alex Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:14:39 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/#comment-354719 I hope they keep Langerhans and get rid of Bill Hall or someoen else. Regardless of salary obligations. Langerhans is a great late inning defensive replacement in addition to being a good backup. I hope they keep Langerhans and get rid of Bill Hall or someoen else. Regardless of salary obligations. Langerhans is a great late inning defensive replacement in addition to being a good backup.

]]> By: 6-4-3 http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/comment-page-1/#comment-354680 6-4-3 Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:57:47 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/#comment-354680 I think Dave makes the most important point in the other post: it's not so much that Griffey will be a poor player, but the fact that retaining Griffey means another guy loses his job. A guy who could have made a valuable contribution to the team for years is sacrificed to allow Griffey to tip his cap a few times. I think Dave makes the most important point in the other post: it’s not so much that Griffey will be a poor player, but the fact that retaining Griffey means another guy loses his job. A guy who could have made a valuable contribution to the team for years is sacrificed to allow Griffey to tip his cap a few times.

]]> By: joser http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/comment-page-1/#comment-354676 joser Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:45:14 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/#comment-354676 But the real question is how many people in category #1 also agree with #2 and are simply willing to overlook it for the sake of nostalgia and deference to their childhood, and how many are simply in denial. (Like the folks in category #1, swershow has made his mind up about something and now sees everything through that lens; actual data to the contrary will be ignored or waved away as exceptional points that don't change his central thesis.) But the real question is how many people in category #1 also agree with #2 and are simply willing to overlook it for the sake of nostalgia and deference to their childhood, and how many are simply in denial.

(Like the folks in category #1, swershow has made his mind up about something and now sees everything through that lens; actual data to the contrary will be ignored or waved away as exceptional points that don’t change his central thesis.)

]]> By: DMZ http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/comment-page-1/#comment-354673 DMZ Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:34:30 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/#comment-354673 So you don't remember, say, the post where Dave talked about <a href="http://ussmariner.com/2009/09/23/lopez-putting-himself-in-the-history-books/" rel="nofollow">how Lopez's power provides an interesting dilemma</a>. Or <a href="http://ussmariner.com/2009/08/27/lopez-his-hot-streak-and-his-future/" rel="nofollow">his hot streak and how it relates to his real talent and what the team might do with him</a>. Or... jeez. I don't know what to tell you. So you don’t remember, say, the post where Dave talked about how Lopez’s power provides an interesting dilemma. Or his hot streak and how it relates to his real talent and what the team might do with him. Or… jeez.

I don’t know what to tell you.

]]> By: swershow http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/comment-page-1/#comment-354672 swershow Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:30:00 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/#comment-354672 I said you have a tendency. And I apologize for not being more specific. I guess what I was getting at is that you SOMETIMES address only the positive or negative aspects of a player. I feel this way about Jose Lopez too. He is a limited player, but hes also given us very consistent offensive production despite having a terrible lineup around him, at a position that many teams cant get much from. During 2008-2009 Lopez has produced 83 doubles, 42 homers, and was worth 4.7 wins above replacement. I said you have a tendency. And I apologize for not being more specific. I guess what I was getting at is that you SOMETIMES address only the positive or negative aspects of a player. I feel this way about Jose Lopez too. He is a limited player, but hes also given us very consistent offensive production despite having a terrible lineup around him, at a position that many teams cant get much from. During 2008-2009 Lopez has produced 83 doubles, 42 homers, and was worth 4.7 wins above replacement.

]]> By: Alex http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/comment-page-1/#comment-354671 Alex Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:25:59 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/#comment-354671 Re: "If griffey was a player that you were boosting, im sure we’d have heard all about his 14.00% walk rate .196 ISO, and how is numbers were hurt by a .222 BABIP which is .070 lower than his career average." He had a .323 wOBA last year, and ended up being 0.2 WAR. In 2008 he was worth 0.4 WAR and in 2007 he was 0.2, according to fangraphs. Obviously it helps him to DH, but his offensive production is lower now than it was in those years. Yes his BABIP (.222) was lower than his career numbers (.291), but he isnt as good now as he was for most of his career. You could probably claim that his current talent should lead to a .250-.260 BABIP, and maybe that brings his war up to like 0.5 over the partial season that he will be playing. Those who arent in favor of the Griffey signing feel that way because they think its more useful to spend the bench spots on someoen like Langerhans, than on a .25-.5 WAR DH/Pinch Hitter/Designated Hugger. Re: “If griffey was a player that you were boosting, im sure we’d have heard all about his 14.00% walk rate .196 ISO, and how is numbers were hurt by a .222 BABIP which is .070 lower than his career average.”

He had a .323 wOBA last year, and ended up being 0.2 WAR. In 2008 he was worth 0.4 WAR and in 2007 he was 0.2, according to fangraphs. Obviously it helps him to DH, but his offensive production is lower now than it was in those years.

Yes his BABIP (.222) was lower than his career numbers (.291), but he isnt as good now as he was for most of his career. You could probably claim that his current talent should lead to a .250-.260 BABIP, and maybe that brings his war up to like 0.5 over the partial season that he will be playing.

Those who arent in favor of the Griffey signing feel that way because they think its more useful to spend the bench spots on someoen like Langerhans, than on a .25-.5 WAR DH/Pinch Hitter/Designated Hugger.

]]> By: Liam http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/comment-page-1/#comment-354663 Liam Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:08:43 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/#comment-354663 What are the odds that Larry Stone knew all along when he wrote that article yesterday? What are the odds that Larry Stone knew all along when he wrote that article yesterday?

]]> By: Chris_From_Bothell http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/comment-page-1/#comment-354656 Chris_From_Bothell Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:00:29 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2009/11/11/griffey-to-return-in-2010-stone-reports/#comment-354656 <blockquote>His ISO and walk rate are still both very good, among the best on the team. </blockquote> That's a reflection on how much better the team could be, not just on Griffey's skills. <blockquote>I think it is quite reasonable, if he’s played in favorable matchups and kept healthy and rested to look at a line like .250 .360 .460.</blockquote> There are players with consistently much better lines than this, as part-time or full-time DHs.

His ISO and walk rate are still both very good, among the best on the team.

That’s a reflection on how much better the team could be, not just on Griffey’s skills.

I think it is quite reasonable, if he’s played in favorable matchups and kept healthy and rested to look at a line like .250 .360 .460.

There are players with consistently much better lines than this, as part-time or full-time DHs.

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