Figgins might be too expensive, but maybe not. I’m guessing he’ll get 4/$42MM

Hard to guess what Figgins might get, but I’d bet it’ll be more than that, maybe $13 to 17MM per year. I have no guess myself whether that would be higher than what the M’s would be wiling to spend on him.

Figgins might be too expensive, but maybe not. I’m guessing he’ll get 4/$42MM. At that price he becomes interesting. He’ll only be 35 in the last year of a 4 year deal and I wouldn’t expect too much decline before then.

Figgins can play 2B or LF in addition to 3B. Given the uncertainty the M’s have at those positions, it’s a big plus. He’s also not handicapped by Safeco the way that Beltre is.

Beltre is a good, solid player and I will miss him. But for the money I think the M’s have better options.

Brett Butler, Willie Wilson, Tim Raines, Willie McGee, Johnny Damon, Lou Brock (OK, more than 30 years ago). To name a few off the top of my head, along with the few already named. This statement just isn’t true.

Well, I was asking for help in building out my list, figuring I had missed someone, but I feel this deserves a response for both substance and tone:

Butler, I grant you, was “productive” until he turned 39, though after the age of 36 he only played in 111 games in a season once, and his totals in that regard were usually much, much lower.

To suggest that Wilson was a force after his mid-thirties is a stretch: his numbers were already declining, then fell precipitously from the year he turned 36 onward.

Raines’ OPS stayed relatively high from the year he turned 35 onward, but he never played in more than 109 games in a season, and usually far fewer.

Damon just turned 36, but indeed he looks like another one to add to the list, though I wonder to what degree he qualifies as someone whose game is largely built on speed.

McGee remained relatively productive and durable, though he was scarcely much of a base-stealing threat from age 33 on.

And, Brock: well, duh. He was a slam dunk Hall-of-Famer, and again, no one for whom Chone Figgins is likely to be mistaken.

I thank you for bringing a few other cases to my attention as food for thought, but I don’t think it vitiates the overall point I was hoping to make regarding the dangers of overvaluing Figgins, even if other sites than fangraphs peg his WAR slightly higher (and I reiterate, there’s no particularly strong reason based on his previous career numbers to think he will come close to repeating that performance). Though it seems the majority of contributors here don’t think it’s a good idea to sign him (and more importantly, that it won’t happen), there also seems to be a persistent undercurrent of thought that he would be attractive or a better option than Beltre. Marginally, that might be true, but not for what he’s likely to get paid versus what AB will probably get in free agency.

Neither of them should be counted on to give the M’s anything in 2010… so yeah, the M’s are kind of light in the infield, unless you keep Lopez and count on Tui as the 3B, or trade Lopez, stick Tui at 2B, and go with a Hall/Hannahan platoon (assuming a 2B/3B doesn’t come back).

Defense is a reason that Lowell might get traded. And as long as the leaderboard is open, we can talk about other players. But defense isn’t something they’re evaluated on, and certainly doesn’t inform the larger discussion about other options. If the Red Sox swapped Lowell for Beltre, I suppose the Red Sox would lose some offense and there’d be some salary differences to work out. Team defense, hey, who knows?

It seems to be clear to everyone else, but I don’t understand what DMZ was trying to say here.

Maybe someone can help me fill out my list here, but in racking my brain I can think of only two guys in the last thirty years whose game was in large measure built on speed who did not decline significantly in their mid-30s, and for both a single name may suffice: Rickey and Ichiro.

Brett Butler, Willie Wilson, Tim Raines, Willie McGee, Johnny Damon, Lou Brock (OK, more than 30 years ago). To name a few off the top of my head, along with the few already named. This statement just isn’t true.

Beltre’s skills aren’t speed based, but they’re also not “old player skills”.

As far as his plate discipline, it’s streaky like his hitting in general. When he’s hot, he lays off the outside slider. When he’s slumping, he fishes for it. People remember those terrible swings but seem to forget his hot streaks. That’s why the best way to evaluate him is with his overall averages, not your memories of a bad swing or 50 bad swings.