Uh, you don’t seem to understand offensive context very well. Jose Lopez is an average offensive 2B in a run-neutral environment (there are a number who are better, a number who are worse). Moving that player to a better hitter’s ballpark improves his numbers on the surface, but it does not actually change his skillset or abilities- it merely places them in a more favorable context for hitting.

Contextwise, Lopez is a league-average 2B. That’s great, but hardly irreplaceable. If he does turn into the second coming of Carlos Guillen in a better ballpark, it’s not particularly predictable from his current performance. (FWIW, Adrian Beltre is a considerably better hitter than Jose Lopez.)

Of course there are. The fact that so many argue that his major weak spot is plate discipline is certainly an indication for a young, developing hitter to work on it. Plate discipline is something you expect to improve with experience.

Right, but Lopez has had nearly 3000 plate appearances in the major leagues. Can you show me someone who went from having a well-below average walk rate in MLB to even an average one after 3000 plate appearances?

Generally speaking, it’s highly unusual to see players change dramatically at this point in their careers.

I know there’s a simple explanation for this but why Luke Scott when the team just punted Langerhans?

Langerhans is a ~1.5 WAR bench player whose gifts are in defense- we’re talking about a guy with a .311 wOBA. We’re kind of full up on guys with zero punch and great defense. At some point, you hit a problem of diminishing returns and an inability to win ballgames by a score of -1 to 0.

Luke Scott’s talents run more to offense. He’d likely swing to 1B and the OF and be a reasonably priced LHB for middle-order duty, plus the reasons Dave lists (can take a chance on Nick Johnson or Russ Branyan, who have injury issues, can let Carp OR Saunders fight their way onto the team, etc).

Uh, you don’t seem to understand offensive context very well. Jose Lopez is an average offensive 2B in a run-neutral environment (there are a number who are better, a number who are worse). Moving that player to a better hitter’s ballpark improves his numbers on the surface, but it does not actually change his skillset or abilities- it merely places them in a more favorable context for hitting.

Contextwise, Lopez is a league-average 2B. That’s great, but hardly irreplaceable. If he does turn into the second coming of Carlos Guillen in a better ballpark, it’s not particularly predictable from his current performance. (FWIW, Adrian Beltre is a considerably better hitter than Jose Lopez.)

Of course there are. The fact that so many argue that his major weak spot is plate discipline is certainly an indication for a young, developing hitter to work on it. Plate discipline is something you expect to improve with experience.

Right, but Lopez has had nearly 3000 plate appearances in the major leagues. Can you show me someone who went from having a well-below average walk rate in MLB to even an average one after 3000 plate appearances?

Generally speaking, it’s highly unusual to see players change dramatically at this point in their careers.

I know there’s a simple explanation for this but why Luke Scott when the team just punted Langerhans?

Langerhans is a ~1.5 WAR bench player whose gifts are in defense- we’re talking about a guy with a .311 wOBA. We’re kind of full up on guys with zero punch and great defense. At some point, you hit a problem of diminishing returns and an inability to win ballgames by a score of -1 to 0.

Luke Scott’s talents run more to offense. He’d likely swing to 1B and the OF and be a reasonably priced LHB for middle-order duty, plus the reasons Dave lists (can take a chance on Nick Johnson or Russ Branyan, who have injury issues, can let Carp OR Saunders fight their way onto the team, etc).

Of course there are. The fact that so many argue that his major weak spot is plate discipline is certainly an indication for a young, developing hitter to work on it. Plate discipline is something you expect to improve with experience.

Move that guy to a hitter friendly park and he challenges for the best offensive 2B in the majors(IMO). Sure he has his flaws

I’m in favor of moving Lopez in the right deal, but you seem to be missing a few important points that most people around here accept about Lopez.

(1) his lack of walks seriously, seriously limits his offensive value. Maybe you disagree on the value of OBP, but to most he simply doesn’t have enough power to justify the low OBP. Not that he is bad, but despite the impressive power numbers, he’s still roughly average.

(2) Many other 2B could have similar or better offensive value in Safeco. What they would lose in SLG and HR, they would gain in OBP.

(3) There are no indications that Lopez will improve his OBP or BB%, so while he may hit 30 HR or more in the right ballpark, he still won’t get on base enough or play good defense, so some of his value will be illusionary.

(4) Again, Lopez is a perfectly fine 2B as far as I’m concerned. Definitely should get moved if the right deal presents itself, but definitely should not get moved for the sake of moving him. I don’t think moving him for Scott really makes sense for either the M’s or the O’s.

Very few other 2B in the league would put up even close to his numbers in Safeco. Move that guy to a hitter friendly park and he challenges for the best offensive 2B in the majors(IMO).

Which is exactly why the M’s might want to trade him to a team with such a park. They should just get more than Luke Scott for him. Lopez is young and cost-controlled and still has some power upside, but he has terrible plate discipline (really, the worst of all MLB 2Bs) and his OBP (which the M’s clearly now value) is barely ahead of Kaz Matsui and Clint Barmes for worst. Moreover his barely-average defense isn’t improving, which means he’ll probably be headed for a corner infield position where his run-producing power won’t look quite so shiny. Meanwhile, the M’s have three players in the minors they’re trying out at second (Tui, Triu, and Ackley) so it’s clear his days as a 2B with the M’s are numbered.

I don’t mind having Lopez on the team (for 2010), but as with Scott he’d be more valuable to another team, and that means the M’s should certainly be out there seeing what they can get for him.

Sure, Luke Scott may be a nice pickup for the M’s, but can he compare with indomitable Ichiro Figgins?

I just love imagining the Irish-Japanese do-everything lead-off hitter, all tea ceremonies mixed with pub brawls and saki mixed with whiskey. A one-man haiku limerick.

But maybe we’re spelling it wrong, and it’s actually Ichor O’Figgins?