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	<title>Comments on: Francisco Liriano</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/12/31/francisco-liriano/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/12/31/francisco-liriano/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: bongo</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/12/31/francisco-liriano/comment-page-4/#comment-360690</link>
		<dc:creator>bongo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 05:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9942#comment-360690</guid>
		<description>@amnizu
If you consider Hudson&#039;s AL as opposed to NL performance, he looks considerably worse on offense.  With Toronto, his wOBA was:
2002: .326
2003: .316
2004: .339
2005: .317

So other than 2004, his performance was comparable (or worse) than Jose Lopez.  Add that to his unfavorable UZR comparison and one can argue that paying Orlando Hudson a substantial salary to play in the AL in 2010 represents a risk.  If he regresses toward his previous AL numbers and his fielding is similar to 2009 (or worse), then he might not even deliver 2 WAR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@amnizu<br />
If you consider Hudson&#8217;s AL as opposed to NL performance, he looks considerably worse on offense.  With Toronto, his wOBA was:<br />
2002: .326<br />
2003: .316<br />
2004: .339<br />
2005: .317</p>
<p>So other than 2004, his performance was comparable (or worse) than Jose Lopez.  Add that to his unfavorable UZR comparison and one can argue that paying Orlando Hudson a substantial salary to play in the AL in 2010 represents a risk.  If he regresses toward his previous AL numbers and his fielding is similar to 2009 (or worse), then he might not even deliver 2 WAR.</p>
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		<title>By: SeatownDown</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/12/31/francisco-liriano/comment-page-4/#comment-360627</link>
		<dc:creator>SeatownDown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9942#comment-360627</guid>
		<description>[low quality]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[low quality]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: amnizu</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/12/31/francisco-liriano/comment-page-4/#comment-360604</link>
		<dc:creator>amnizu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9942#comment-360604</guid>
		<description>wOBA	UZR 	OBP	
2008	Jose Lopez	.328	-5.8	.322
2009	Jose Lopez	.325	1.2	.303

2008	O. Hudson	.358	-5.1	.367
2009	O. Hudson	.342	-3.3	.357

2008	F. Lopez	.320	-5.3	.343
2009	F. Lopez	.356	7.8	.383




			BABIP	WAR
2008	Jose Lopez	.311	2.0
2009	Jose Lopez	.274	2.6

2008	O. Hudson	.344	2.0
2009	O. Hudson	.332	2.9

2008	F. Lopez	.331	.8
2009	F. Lopez	.360	4.6



Can someone give me a quick break down on BABIP as it relates to hitters?  It seems to me that if Jose Lopez can bring his up in line with league average (around .290 vs his .274 last season) this coming season he pencils out for 2.5 to 3 WAR or basically at or above level of Hudson or F. Lopez.  So this move would potentially net the Ms .5 to 1.5 WAR depending on Liriano but cost them 5 to 7 mil for a comparable 2b and $$$ to Minnesota.  Overall, seems a more cost effective move than 7 to 10 mil for Sheets, as well as providing 2011 and 2012 with Liriano instead of just one year of Sheets.  So from the  Mâ€™s perspective makes sense.  IDK enough about the Twins organization to offer an opinion there, but it seems to me like Lopez + Cash @ 2.5 WAR for Liriano at 1 to 1.5 WAR would make sense for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wOBA	UZR 	OBP<br />
2008	Jose Lopez	.328	-5.8	.322<br />
2009	Jose Lopez	.325	1.2	.303</p>
<p>2008	O. Hudson	.358	-5.1	.367<br />
2009	O. Hudson	.342	-3.3	.357</p>
<p>2008	F. Lopez	.320	-5.3	.343<br />
2009	F. Lopez	.356	7.8	.383</p>
<p>			BABIP	WAR<br />
2008	Jose Lopez	.311	2.0<br />
2009	Jose Lopez	.274	2.6</p>
<p>2008	O. Hudson	.344	2.0<br />
2009	O. Hudson	.332	2.9</p>
<p>2008	F. Lopez	.331	.8<br />
2009	F. Lopez	.360	4.6</p>
<p>Can someone give me a quick break down on BABIP as it relates to hitters?  It seems to me that if Jose Lopez can bring his up in line with league average (around .290 vs his .274 last season) this coming season he pencils out for 2.5 to 3 WAR or basically at or above level of Hudson or F. Lopez.  So this move would potentially net the Ms .5 to 1.5 WAR depending on Liriano but cost them 5 to 7 mil for a comparable 2b and $$$ to Minnesota.  Overall, seems a more cost effective move than 7 to 10 mil for Sheets, as well as providing 2011 and 2012 with Liriano instead of just one year of Sheets.  So from the  Mâ€™s perspective makes sense.  IDK enough about the Twins organization to offer an opinion there, but it seems to me like Lopez + Cash @ 2.5 WAR for Liriano at 1 to 1.5 WAR would make sense for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/12/31/francisco-liriano/comment-page-4/#comment-360562</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 14:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9942#comment-360562</guid>
		<description>Just in the interests of proper attribution, that quote is stolen from former Italian soccer coach Arrigo Sacchi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just in the interests of proper attribution, that quote is stolen from former Italian soccer coach Arrigo Sacchi.</p>
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		<title>By: Catherwood</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/12/31/francisco-liriano/comment-page-4/#comment-360545</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 07:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9942#comment-360545</guid>
		<description>Graham sez:

&lt;em&gt;You donâ€™t have to have been a horse to be a jockey.&lt;/em&gt;

That is fabulous. I intend to steal that early and often. 

At the same time, I have a minuscule amount of sympathy for the wagster, because baseball, like quantum mechanics, sometimes defies the truths we&#039;ve been taught to believe (Grit is the most important thing a player can bring, the big bat is more important than getting on base, time and space are both invariant, and so on). I don&#039;t know how we&#039;ll make runs happen, but if a bunch of guys in a row continue to get on base a lot, runs will happen as a consequence. It&#039;s not, well, quantum mechanics, but, come on. A hundred years of numbers don&#039;t lie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham sez:</p>
<p><em>You donâ€™t have to have been a horse to be a jockey.</em></p>
<p>That is fabulous. I intend to steal that early and often. </p>
<p>At the same time, I have a minuscule amount of sympathy for the wagster, because baseball, like quantum mechanics, sometimes defies the truths we&#8217;ve been taught to believe (Grit is the most important thing a player can bring, the big bat is more important than getting on base, time and space are both invariant, and so on). I don&#8217;t know how we&#8217;ll make runs happen, but if a bunch of guys in a row continue to get on base a lot, runs will happen as a consequence. It&#8217;s not, well, quantum mechanics, but, come on. A hundred years of numbers don&#8217;t lie.</p>
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		<title>By: mattlock</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/12/31/francisco-liriano/comment-page-4/#comment-360515</link>
		<dc:creator>mattlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 22:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9942#comment-360515</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Yep.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wow.  Just wow.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Apologies to those of you that actually wanted to discuss the merits of Daveâ€™s trade idea in this comment thread.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So is there any more news along these lines?  I&#039;m guessing that we probably have to wait for the weekend to end.

What other realistic trades might present themselves?  Obviously there&#039;s Overbay.  Who might the Jays want for him?  And Dave mentioned Willie Aybar.  That would be just beautiful, but who would the Rays want in return?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Yep.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wow.  Just wow.</p>
<blockquote><p>Apologies to those of you that actually wanted to discuss the merits of Daveâ€™s trade idea in this comment thread.</p></blockquote>
<p>So is there any more news along these lines?  I&#8217;m guessing that we probably have to wait for the weekend to end.</p>
<p>What other realistic trades might present themselves?  Obviously there&#8217;s Overbay.  Who might the Jays want for him?  And Dave mentioned Willie Aybar.  That would be just beautiful, but who would the Rays want in return?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Nye</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/12/31/francisco-liriano/comment-page-4/#comment-360513</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Nye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9942#comment-360513</guid>
		<description>Apologies to those of you that actually wanted to discuss the merits of Dave&#039;s trade idea in this comment thread.

&lt;blockquote&gt;DMZ, did he really do that??&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yep.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies to those of you that actually wanted to discuss the merits of Dave&#8217;s trade idea in this comment thread.</p>
<blockquote><p>DMZ, did he really do that??</p></blockquote>
<p>Yep.</p>
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		<title>By: mattlock</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/12/31/francisco-liriano/comment-page-4/#comment-360510</link>
		<dc:creator>mattlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9942#comment-360510</guid>
		<description>DMZ, did he really do that??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DMZ, did he really do that??</p>
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		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/12/31/francisco-liriano/comment-page-4/#comment-360509</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9942#comment-360509</guid>
		<description>Hey, uh, &quot;blazerbeliever01&quot; you realize that we can pretty clearly see that you&#039;re Wag, right?

Banned for sockpuppetry as the final straw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, uh, &#8220;blazerbeliever01&#8243; you realize that we can pretty clearly see that you&#8217;re Wag, right?</p>
<p>Banned for sockpuppetry as the final straw.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2009/12/31/francisco-liriano/comment-page-4/#comment-360508</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 20:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=9942#comment-360508</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;While you guys chose to analyze the game, he chose to actually play it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Which would probably make him a better baseball player and a worse analyst, no? You don&#039;t have to have been a horse to be a jockey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>While you guys chose to analyze the game, he chose to actually play it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Which would probably make him a better baseball player and a worse analyst, no? You don&#8217;t have to have been a horse to be a jockey.</p>
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