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	<title>Comments on: Dave vs Dave</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/03/05/dave-vs-dave/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/03/05/dave-vs-dave/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners blog and general baseball discussion</description>
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		<title>By: Liam</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/03/05/dave-vs-dave/comment-page-1/#comment-365130</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=10296#comment-365130</guid>
		<description>The results are out and Dave Niehaus has prevailed. I&#039;m ashamed of all of you who put too much thought into your voting process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The results are out and Dave Niehaus has prevailed. I&#8217;m ashamed of all of you who put too much thought into your voting process.</p>
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		<title>By: dsmiley</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/03/05/dave-vs-dave/comment-page-1/#comment-365071</link>
		<dc:creator>dsmiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 00:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=10296#comment-365071</guid>
		<description>Had this vote been held a few years ago, I would have voted for Dave N.  As much as I love Niehaus, he&#039;s kind of gone senile and it&#039;s getting hard to hear.

And like others have said, Dave C. (along with Derek and the other good folks as USSM) has contributed more to my knowledge of baseball and my ability to think critically about the game than Niehaus ever did.  For that, Dave Cameron is probably the only person that I&#039;d vote for over Niehaus.

Call me crazy -- you wouldn&#039;t be the first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Had this vote been held a few years ago, I would have voted for Dave N.  As much as I love Niehaus, he&#8217;s kind of gone senile and it&#8217;s getting hard to hear.</p>
<p>And like others have said, Dave C. (along with Derek and the other good folks as USSM) has contributed more to my knowledge of baseball and my ability to think critically about the game than Niehaus ever did.  For that, Dave Cameron is probably the only person that I&#8217;d vote for over Niehaus.</p>
<p>Call me crazy &#8212; you wouldn&#8217;t be the first.</p>
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		<title>By: pygmalion</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/03/05/dave-vs-dave/comment-page-1/#comment-365033</link>
		<dc:creator>pygmalion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 20:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=10296#comment-365033</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I ... didnâ€™t expect that someone would be parsing my words so carefully.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, I&#039;m just in that kind of mood.

PS Are bloggers and announcers commensurable?  That&#039;s what keeps me up late at night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I &#8230; didnâ€™t expect that someone would be parsing my words so carefully.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, I&#8217;m just in that kind of mood.</p>
<p>PS Are bloggers and announcers commensurable?  That&#8217;s what keeps me up late at night.</p>
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		<title>By: xeifrank</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/03/05/dave-vs-dave/comment-page-1/#comment-365024</link>
		<dc:creator>xeifrank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 18:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=10296#comment-365024</guid>
		<description>I voted for all the lower seeds.  Looking out for the little guys.
vr, Xeifrank</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I voted for all the lower seeds.  Looking out for the little guys.<br />
vr, Xeifrank</p>
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		<title>By: lailaihei</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/03/05/dave-vs-dave/comment-page-1/#comment-365022</link>
		<dc:creator>lailaihei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 17:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=10296#comment-365022</guid>
		<description>Honestly, Dave C did more to make me a Mariners fan than Dave N ever did. Before I found USSM, I knew little about baseball and only went to a couple games per year. Since, I have greatly expanded my knowledge and now try to go to 20-30 games annually.

So thanks, Dave, and there is at least one non-pity vote for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, Dave C did more to make me a Mariners fan than Dave N ever did. Before I found USSM, I knew little about baseball and only went to a couple games per year. Since, I have greatly expanded my knowledge and now try to go to 20-30 games annually.</p>
<p>So thanks, Dave, and there is at least one non-pity vote for you.</p>
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		<title>By: TomC</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/03/05/dave-vs-dave/comment-page-1/#comment-365021</link>
		<dc:creator>TomC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 16:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=10296#comment-365021</guid>
		<description>@pygmalion:  Excellent comment.  I love the diagramming of the argument.

I reviewed the list for myself.  Sorry, but Dave C. is my choice against everyone &lt;strong&gt;but&lt;/strong&gt; Dave N.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@pygmalion:  Excellent comment.  I love the diagramming of the argument.</p>
<p>I reviewed the list for myself.  Sorry, but Dave C. is my choice against everyone <strong>but</strong> Dave N.</p>
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		<title>By: peterp16</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/03/05/dave-vs-dave/comment-page-1/#comment-365020</link>
		<dc:creator>peterp16</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 16:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=10296#comment-365020</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I donâ€™t understand your â€œtherefore.â€&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I posted this late at night, and didn&#039;t expect that someone would be parsing my words so carefully. I see people treating this as an opportunity to vote for the best of something, however they frame that. While I like Dave N as an announcer, I consider him good, not great. To me, Vin Scully set the standard with great announcers. So, I see this vote as a good (though popular) announcer vs a great blogger. And Dave C got my vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I donâ€™t understand your â€œtherefore.â€</p></blockquote>
<p>I posted this late at night, and didn&#8217;t expect that someone would be parsing my words so carefully. I see people treating this as an opportunity to vote for the best of something, however they frame that. While I like Dave N as an announcer, I consider him good, not great. To me, Vin Scully set the standard with great announcers. So, I see this vote as a good (though popular) announcer vs a great blogger. And Dave C got my vote.</p>
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		<title>By: SCL</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/03/05/dave-vs-dave/comment-page-1/#comment-365019</link>
		<dc:creator>SCL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 15:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=10296#comment-365019</guid>
		<description>Dave Cameron has largely contributed to changing the way I look at baseball.  For that, he gets my vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave Cameron has largely contributed to changing the way I look at baseball.  For that, he gets my vote.</p>
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		<title>By: pygmalion</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/03/05/dave-vs-dave/comment-page-1/#comment-365018</link>
		<dc:creator>pygmalion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 13:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=10296#comment-365018</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I grew up listening to Vin Scully. I people will flame me on this, but you donâ€™t know what youâ€™re missing until youâ€™ve heard the best voice in baseball. Therefore I have no problem voting for Dave C. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t understand your &quot;therefore.&quot;  Consider the following parallel argument: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;I was introduced to Sabermetrics by Tango.  I know people will flame me for this, but you don&#039;t know what you&#039;re missing until you&#039;ve studied the best stats-writer in baseball.  Therefore I have no problem voting for Dave N.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It is easy to invert the argument because you seem to be missing a premise.  I can imagine three: 

1. The only baseball announcer that could be more deserving than Dave Cameron of winning would be the best baseball announcer ever.

2. All baseball announcers sound like suck after you&#039;ve heard Vin Scully, and no suck announcer should beat Dave Cameron.

3. The only reason to vote for a baseball announcer over Dave Cameron would be if you had a strong emotional connection to that announcer.

Going with either 1 or 2 would make the argument work, but they share the disadvantage of being unbearably stupid.  My assumption is that you&#039;re really working with something like 3, which would make sense given that almost every post expressing support for Niehaus has cited childhood emotional attachment; your post would then state, &quot;Ah, but I lack such an attachment, and am attached to an even better announcer; so I have no problem voting against Niehaus in favor of Cameron.&quot;

Contra this premise: Dave Niehaus is a large part of baseball&#039;s popularity in Seattle, a larger part than Dave Cameron, and to recognize this you don&#039;t need to possess the emotional attachment yourself, only recognize that millions of others possess it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I grew up listening to Vin Scully. I people will flame me on this, but you donâ€™t know what youâ€™re missing until youâ€™ve heard the best voice in baseball. Therefore I have no problem voting for Dave C. </p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand your &#8220;therefore.&#8221;  Consider the following parallel argument: </p>
<blockquote><p>I was introduced to Sabermetrics by Tango.  I know people will flame me for this, but you don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re missing until you&#8217;ve studied the best stats-writer in baseball.  Therefore I have no problem voting for Dave N.</p></blockquote>
<p>It is easy to invert the argument because you seem to be missing a premise.  I can imagine three: </p>
<p>1. The only baseball announcer that could be more deserving than Dave Cameron of winning would be the best baseball announcer ever.</p>
<p>2. All baseball announcers sound like suck after you&#8217;ve heard Vin Scully, and no suck announcer should beat Dave Cameron.</p>
<p>3. The only reason to vote for a baseball announcer over Dave Cameron would be if you had a strong emotional connection to that announcer.</p>
<p>Going with either 1 or 2 would make the argument work, but they share the disadvantage of being unbearably stupid.  My assumption is that you&#8217;re really working with something like 3, which would make sense given that almost every post expressing support for Niehaus has cited childhood emotional attachment; your post would then state, &#8220;Ah, but I lack such an attachment, and am attached to an even better announcer; so I have no problem voting against Niehaus in favor of Cameron.&#8221;</p>
<p>Contra this premise: Dave Niehaus is a large part of baseball&#8217;s popularity in Seattle, a larger part than Dave Cameron, and to recognize this you don&#8217;t need to possess the emotional attachment yourself, only recognize that millions of others possess it.</p>
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		<title>By: peterp16</title>
		<link>http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/03/05/dave-vs-dave/comment-page-1/#comment-365015</link>
		<dc:creator>peterp16</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 07:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=10296#comment-365015</guid>
		<description>I grew up listening to Vin Scully. I people will flame me on this, but you don&#039;t know what you&#039;re missing until you&#039;ve heard the best voice in baseball. Therefore I have no problem voting for Dave C. And I will retain my Mariner fandom in good standing. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I grew up listening to Vin Scully. I people will flame me on this, but you don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re missing until you&#8217;ve heard the best voice in baseball. Therefore I have no problem voting for Dave C. And I will retain my Mariner fandom in good standing. <img src='http://www.ussmariner.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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