Comments on: Leadership

By: Chris_From_Bothell

Chris_From_Bothell — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:08:59 +0000

why does Ichiro have to be a leader? Because he’s been here the longest? What makes you say that it’s mandatory he be a leader?

Yes. Because he’s been here the longest. That’s what makes it mandatory. Baseball 101.

Vocal leaders are wildly overrated, and if everyone came in to the clubhouse with the same attitude and work ethic as Ichiro we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

But they obviously don’t, so the vocal leaders are needed as a complementary piece to the quiet examples.

By: gloo

gloo — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 00:08:49 +0000

Exactly. Vocal leaders aren’t always what they preach to be…

By: Nellie Fox

Nellie Fox — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:30:10 +0000

Salk forgot the fourth kind of leadership: The mythical propaganda that a guy like Ken Griffey, Jr. was inspirational and motivational in any way at all. Let’s see – I’m benched, so I’ll hang it up and be on a plane for Florida in five minutes. Yeah, there’s a leader.

Or I’ll hit the clubhouse for a snooze in the fifth inning. Nice example.

It’s one thing to be a hall of famer who gets ogled and has all his lame jokes laughed at by a fawning, clueless media. But that’s not leadership. Griffey was an intimidator, a diva, and a high-maintenance egoist. He was not a leader. Ever.

By: Axtell

Axtell — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:19:28 +0000

Chris from Bothell, why does Ichiro have to be a leader? Because he’s been here the longest? What makes you say that it’s mandatory he be a leader?

He comes to work every day, kills it, works his ass off, doesn’t take days off, and that’s still not enough for you? Vocal leaders are wildly overrated, and if everyone came in to the clubhouse with the same attitude and work ethic as Ichiro we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Why is leadership and chemistry only talked about when a team is losing? Because they are largely irrelevant to a team’s success.

Chris, it’s time to ease up off the Ichiro talk. For all the team’s ills, Ichiro (and his supposed lack of leadership) definitely is not one of them.

By: firova2

firova2 — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:28:37 +0000

I doubt that if anyone asks Ichiro a question, he walks away. To expect more is actually to insult the intelligence of his teammates. No way should they need him to tell them how to be professionals. Watch, learn, ask questions. And grow up.

It has been said many times before. When teams lose, the best player always gets the blame.

By: gloo

gloo — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:08:16 +0000

No player regardless of their popularity is exempt from fair criticism. I fail to see how this is a fair criticism in light of what we discussed.

By: gloo

gloo — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:06:35 +0000

Baseball is at times less of a team sport than it is an individual one, compared to say, Football.

I totally agree with firova2 that it great ones have internal drive with intrinsic motivators.

By: Chris_From_Bothell

Chris_From_Bothell — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:03:29 +0000

Again, what is Ichiro supposed to say to them. “See how I work and prepare? Follow me.”

Um, actually, yeah, he’s supposed to say essentially that. Although in a much more effective way than you or I ever would, with lots more instruction, detail and authority, and more often.

Ichiro should be blamed since he won’t do more?

Not blaming him for 2010′s team blowing pork. I’m simply wondering why he can’t do this one thing that he should have the skills and credibility to do.

Daring to suggest that Ichiro, icon of the Mariners, is less than perfect at one thing is not at all the same as saying he’s the problem with the team, nor is it the same as saying that everything else he does so well is suddenly moot. It’s ok to criticize Ichiro about something. Really.

By: firova2

firova2 — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:01:18 +0000

Actually, Chris, I would say that coaching at the major league level is also wildly overrated. Firing Allan Cockerell hardly changed the Mariner offense. Most players have previous coaches or other people they are connected with whose opinion they trust, and they now self-evaluate via video to a large degree. The great ones (Edgar, Ichiro, Rod Carew, Brett) coached themselves, changing their stances constantly. Defense? How many hours they put in along with athletic ability is really what it is about. Of course the team needs coaches, and pitching coaches probably have a greater impact, but we shouldn’t overrate their significance.

By: gloo

gloo — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:57:15 +0000

Chris, why does it have to be Ichiro?

Being a vocal leader amongst a group of devs is night and day from being a vocal leader amongst a bunch of jock types.

10 years can be very different for someone who spends the off season not speaking or hearing the language at all, opposed to workers who live here permanently.

Ichiro should be blamed since he won’t do more? Seems interesting that he is taking on a role that other players would gladly relinquish; team’s lightning rod for criticism.