Game thread, Mariners at Athletics, 9/29

DMZ · September 29, 2004 at 5:48 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Madritsch v Harden

Come see two guys who have been mentioned by different people as being closers of the future duke it out as their talents warranted — as starters.

Also… Ichiro: hitting machine


43 Responses to “Game thread, Mariners at Athletics, 9/29”

  1. Eric Gunnerson\'s C# Compendium on September 29th, 2004 6:41 pm
    re: Group Blogs

  2. Jeff in Fremont on September 29th, 2004 7:08 pm

    Sisler’s record is safe as long as Harden can’t find the strike zone…

  3. DMZ on September 29th, 2004 7:14 pm

    It’s funny to think as we head into these last series that the M’s may have played a critical role in the AL West pennant race. Not the one they wanted.

  4. chris w on September 29th, 2004 7:33 pm

    Am I the only one who, watching Madritsch pitch in a critical pennant-race game, with bunch of other new Ms faces, and with Ichiro on the verge of breaking Sisler’s record, is way more interested in the Ms now than at any other time in the season? It’s something that only baseball has to offer.

  5. Jeff in Fremont on September 29th, 2004 7:37 pm

    How can you not be interested, even aside from Ichiro’s pursuit? We’re largely watching the future of this organization, and so far, a few have managed to really impress (Madsritch, Reed, Lopez, Jacobsen). I’m starting to think we really only need to spend a lot of money on one position, that being third base. The rest of the money can be spent rebuilding that pitching staff, especially the bullpen.

  6. LB on September 29th, 2004 7:38 pm

    Ignorant comment from Hendu on the TV broadcast: The Yankees proved today they could beat Santana.

    Right, Hendu. Have you bothered to look at a box score? Gardenhire isn’t playing to win anymore. He pulled Santana after 5 innings (and only 71 pitches) to have him fresh for the ALDS, and the Yankees scored the goahead runs in the 7th inning.

  7. Jeff in Fremont on September 29th, 2004 7:52 pm

    On a side note, it looks like DC is getting the Expos. So are they going to change the name back to the Senators or Nationals, or follow the lead of their football franchise and go with something a little more derogatory, like the Darkies, Crackers, or Wetbacks?

  8. Jeremy in Japan on September 29th, 2004 7:57 pm

    This is the first time I’ve ever seen Madritsch pitch. Is Native American? That’s a pretty sweet tattoo he’s got on his neck.

  9. DMZ on September 29th, 2004 8:18 pm

    Jeremy — eeeeyup, he is.

  10. DMZ on September 29th, 2004 8:18 pm


  11. Jim Thomsen on September 29th, 2004 8:23 pm

    I think it’s time to break out Biblical superlatives for Ichiro. He is Risen. He is Ascendeth. Let’s just hope nobody thinks he has to be sacrificed to redeem his team’s sins. (Except for those who insist he is wildly overrated and follow the false logic of: “Well, we won when he was great … so, now that we’re losing, he must not be all that great. In fact, he’s overrated because he doesn’t take walks or get lots of extra-base hits.”)

    He’s great.

  12. Dave on September 29th, 2004 8:30 pm

    As of this writing, Bobby Madritsch has faced 343 batters in the majors and allowed three home runs, or one every 114 batters. Tim Hudson has now allowed 8 homers in 767 batters faced, or one every 96 batters faced. Madritsch has caught and passed Hudson for the major league lead in non-gopheritis.

    Among starters, he leads the majors. I doubt anyone who doesn’t read this blog knows that, and it’s a very strong indicator that this is not a fluke.

  13. sidereal on September 29th, 2004 8:44 pm

    Thanks, Boone.
    If there were a Hall of Fame for those who strike out on three pitches, Bret would be in on the first ballot.

  14. chris w on September 29th, 2004 8:44 pm

    Dave, what is the skill that underlies non-gopheritis? Is it just keeping the ball down? It would make sense for guys like Hudson and Brandon Webb, who throw a lot of sinkers, to have it, but why Madritsch?

  15. Chris Begley on September 29th, 2004 8:47 pm

    Even when Rizzs begs Valle for analysis (What are they talking about there on the mound, Dave?) We still get next to nothing.. jeez!

  16. sidereal on September 29th, 2004 9:02 pm

    I love it when the broadcasters narrate conversations that they’re not privy to. And they don’t just try to guess at the general sentiment, like ‘oh, I’m sure he’s telling him that the error’s no big deal’. They actually detail the entire conversation, which they inevitably describe as a long string of godawful cliches. For all they know Madritsch is saying ‘if you ever do that again, I’m going to boil your cat’.

    More evidence that baseball fansmanship has little do with anything that actually happens, and more to do with the soothing, repetitive rhythm of the familiar. Uck.

  17. G-Man on September 29th, 2004 9:15 pm

    I have taken a liking to Jose Lopez, but he’s got to cut down on the errors to have a chance at being the M’s shortstop in the long term.

  18. LB on September 29th, 2004 9:17 pm

    #12: How much of Madritsch’s HR/PA success is explained by park effects?

  19. Cap on September 29th, 2004 9:29 pm

    Another fine game from Madritsch. He had problems with his control, which tells me something about his mental makeup.

    Oh my…

    Melvin ran Madritsch out there in the 8th? Whaa? 110 pitches, there, Melvin.

  20. Chris Begley on September 29th, 2004 9:41 pm

    Last game of the year for Madritsch – it is not like it is going to do his arm irreperable damage, or even any damage. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that Madritsch really wanted to go 8. And now 9… hmmm.. They did say he wanted a complete game this season. For my money, in the best stories of the year for the M’s (Non-Ichiro division) Bobby is the winner.

  21. chris w on September 29th, 2004 9:42 pm

    and the 9th… after 120 pitches.

  22. stiletto on September 29th, 2004 9:50 pm

    ditto ’bout bobby.
    no harm done for his final start of the year. 130+ isn’t going to kill his arm.
    the big league CG (3 hits) may really get his mind set for a big time competitor.

    post game interview. he thought he gave up 8 hits. was suprised and laughed when he learned it was a 3 hitter.

    good game bobby.

  23. G-Man on September 29th, 2004 9:50 pm

    133 pitches, 3 hits, 1 ER, 4 BB, 4 K.

    This guy is a starter next year, no question.

  24. Sergey on September 29th, 2004 9:52 pm

    137 pitches, 87 strikes, 4 walks, 4 ks.

    Why was he out there for 137 pitches. He did strike out last two batters. Mariners you need him next yr! Why?

  25. M.O. on September 29th, 2004 9:56 pm

    Does anyone know if there is any data on the abuse factor of pitching from the stretch vs. pitching from the windup. I didn’t realize this before, but Madritsch pitched all night from the stretch position only. Is that the usual for him?

  26. Steve on September 29th, 2004 9:57 pm

    Starter? #1 starter, you mean.

    I think his job is safer than Moyer, Meche, or Franklin’s — or should be. Presumably we will have to suffer through the routine “I haven’t decided who my starters are, I’m waiting for that last two innings of evidence” B.S. next spring. But really, Madritsch is the pitching stud of next year’s team even if his spring ERA is 12.

  27. Jeff on September 29th, 2004 9:57 pm

    Wow 135+ pitches it was great to see but I would hate to for Melvins parting gift to be a Tommy John. How much of an improvement is this team over the pre-all star bunch of relics we were watching? A Reed, Winn, Ichiro outfield might not be to shabby. Slide Ibanez over to 1st Lopez at SS Bucky at DH, find a 3rd basemen and buy some more pitching.

  28. chris w on September 29th, 2004 9:58 pm

    I have to agree with Sergey. 137 is way too many. So what if Bobby wanted the CG? The team employs a manager and a pitching coach for a reason. Maybe it won’t do irreperable harm to his arm. Maybe it will, though, and why take the risk? Really friggin’ stupid.

  29. tede on September 29th, 2004 10:01 pm

    btw, Kreuger on FSNW said Ichiro’s HBP in the 9th by Duchscherer was not an accident in his opinion. But if Franklin didn’t avenge the KC beaning (one inside pitch to their SS doesn’t count), he isn’t gonna do so tomorrow.

  30. Jeremy in Japan on September 29th, 2004 10:02 pm

    LB, the same question would have to be asked of Hudson pitching at NewAss.

  31. adam on September 30th, 2004 12:05 am

    I don’t think the Mariners will rest until all of their starters with any talent are on the DL.

  32. Pete on September 30th, 2004 12:24 am

    I think you guys are over-reacting with the pitch count tonight. It’s Madritsch’s last start of the year, plus he really has never shown signs of wear.

    Also, Madritsch seems to be the best built, mature young arm we have. He’s 27 for one thing. Not sure if we’d be freaking out if Freddy threw 130 pitches.

    I also read somewhere that Madritsch has nearly perfect pitching form.

    All in all, let’s be happy he performed so well this year and hope he rests well for next year and is ready to go.

  33. Raymond on September 30th, 2004 5:51 am

    We should all be freaking out when a pitcher is left in for 130 pitches. That’s absurd and unnecessary.

    “He has never really shown signs of wear.” Famous last words?

  34. David on September 30th, 2004 6:08 am

    Can anyone explain this aside from the ESPN game recap:
    “A’s are still loose despite their September struggles — they’re 11-16 this month. Twice during pregame stretching they booed the beautiful woman warming up for the national anthem.”

    Were the beautiful women booing? Were the A’s actually booing beautiful women? Were the fans booing everyone? I’m really confused…

  35. Gil Meche on September 30th, 2004 7:44 am

    I think you guys are over-reacting with the pitch count tonight. It’s Madritsch’s last start of the year, plus he really has never shown signs of wear.

    Yeah! Melvin left me in for high pitch-count games last year, and look at how I did this year.

  36. Chris Begley on September 30th, 2004 7:47 am

    Okay, I think we need some balance. What I like about this site is that Dave, Jason and Derek are not total stat geeks. Bobby Madritsch is a human, first and foremost, not a collection of numbers. He wanted to go out and pitch that final inning. You know Melvin went to him and said something along the lines of “You are our man as long as you don’t allow a single base-runner. Now go out and do it.” The team does employ a manager, who must way the marginal return on letting him pitch (which if you saw him afte rthe game was enormous) versus the marginal damage that an extra 15 pitches would do to him. I applaud Melvin for this decision. There is too little of that fire in this years M’s team, and for Melvin to shut him down would have been a mistake, in my opinion. We shouldn’t go all pitch count crazy because we have read an article by Will Carroll saying high pitch counts are often bad. What does Will say about a 28 year old starter in September – he would probably point out that it will make him pitch poorly in 5 days. Except there is no start in five days.
    Seeing Wilson go running out to the mound shouting at Madritsch looked great after he ended it on a strikeout. And now, like someone else said, Madritsch will have this game to think about and stoke his competitive juices all winter, instead of saying to himself – I wish Melvin had left me in. And Christ, the guy was still dealing 90 mph sliders in the last AB. He was better than anyone we have in the bullpen

  37. big chef terry on September 30th, 2004 8:07 am

    go read tom house or the institute of sports medicine on what happens to a pitcher’s arm after +100 pitches or +30 pitches an inning if you don’t believe it…

    Its really a measure of collective inepititude not only on the big club, Price and Melvin, but throughout the organization. The M’s re-signed Ryan Anderson after 16 surgeries so they can get a return on their investment yesterday…

    Throughout baseball, high amateur and most professional organizations this stuff is known. There is just no reason to do this…Madritsch is probably their best pitcher and he came off the slag heap that is the independent league and it embarrases them.

    If my son were a pitcher and drafted into this organization out of high school it would be cause to decline and go on to school.

  38. Raymond on September 30th, 2004 8:15 am

    One question that has been bugging me for a while:
    Why aren’t there more people at the A’s game? They’re in a huge playoff chase, separated by a game, and only 28,000 people show up? I don’t understand…it’s been like this the past 4 years or so that they’ve made the playoffs. It’s like no one cares down there.

  39. clovet on September 30th, 2004 8:56 am

    Ichiro won’t be a hitting machine much longer if he gets manhandled by opposing pitchers.


  40. Jimmie on September 30th, 2004 10:18 am

    I must admit I’m surprised to read that some folks prefer Hendu over Valle. I’ll take Valle any day over Hendu… me and my friends call Hendu “Mush-Mouth” and it fits. Valle is no great shakes himself, don’t get me wrong here, but at least he doesn’t make words up during his colour comments.

    Also, I do believe that Vin Scully is considerably older than Niehaus and when I watch the Dodgers play on DTV Vin’s the ONLY commentator on the air. I really like that, but it makes me sad when Vin is still sharp and Dave is obviously not so much anymore.


  41. Ralph Malph on September 30th, 2004 10:20 am

    “#12: How much of Madritsch’s HR/PA success is explained by park effects?”

    How much of Moyer’s or Franklin’s HR/PA is explained by park effects?

  42. tede on September 30th, 2004 12:59 pm

    #37 “Throughout baseball,high amateur and most professional organizations this stuff is known.”

    big chef terry, high amateur? Surely you jest. Ever see the College World Series?

    In the 2003 CWS Stanford pitcher John Huggins threw 266 pitches
    in five days for the Cardinal. Eleven days after he signed with the Rangers, he came down with a “dead arm”.

  43. Arthur Fortune (call up AJ Zapp!) on September 30th, 2004 8:21 pm

    Hudgins dead arm was (reportedly) due to a rib condition or something else that was already there bothering him that (supposedly) was unrelated to pitch counts.
    And he seems to bein doin OK now.
    Granted, i dont know how much of the “preexisting” condtiotion stuff is true, but I have heard it in multiple places from good sources.
    Plus they could have revoked some or all of Hudgins bonus if they knew he knew his arm was hurt before he signed.
    I’m inclined to believe the story.
    Also, keep in mind that Ryan Anderson was 19-20 when he got hurt (and still only like 24 i think now)
    Meche was under 25 (i think) when he first got hurt, and even now i think hes younger than Mads.
    Mads arm isnt the younger early-20s injury prone arm…remember yall hes a rookie but hes already older, 26 or 27.