40 man moves

Dave · November 19, 2004 at 1:01 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

While everyone else is adding players to the 40 man roster to protect them from the Rule 5 draft, the M’s have moved one guy off, trading LHP Randy Williams to San Diego for non-prospect Billy Hogan. Hogan doesn’t have to be protected on the 40 man, so the M’s essentially picked up Hogan for nothing, as Williams likely would have been DFA’d if he hadn’t been traded.

The M’s also added Mike Morse, Wladimir Balentien, and Shin-Soo Choo to the 40 man roster to protect them from the rule 5 draft. Ramon Santiago was outrighted to Tacoma, meaning that we have traded Carlos Guillen for the crappy Juan Gonzalez.

Final tally: -1 40 man roster spot, -1 terrible shortstop.


37 Responses to “40 man moves”

  1. Econ guy on November 19th, 2004 1:17 pm

    How good a prospect is Hogan?

  2. Dave on November 19th, 2004 1:19 pm

    He’s not.

  3. Econ guy on November 19th, 2004 1:20 pm

    Sorry, I asked the wrong question. What I meant to ask is how good a prospect is Williams?

  4. Jim Thomsen on November 19th, 2004 1:23 pm

    Is this a nothing-for-nothing deal? It was good to see Williams get a few Mariner innings and a place in the Macmillan encyclopedia, but he seems like your basic Quardruple-A player. I saw him pitch a few times in Tacoma and he reminded me of lefthanded disasters of Mariner past like Dennis Powell, Erik Plantenberg, Kevin King and Kevin Brown. Got some so-so breaking stuff, iffy control and no real knockout punch.

    I wonder how these trades get made from a procedural standpoint, though. Does Bavasi make a call to Kevin Towers and say, “Hey, how about helping me out with a roster problem here? I’ll take anybody we can quickly release into a Taco Bell night-assistant-manager career” … ? And Towers says: “Sure, anything for a pal” … ?

  5. PositivePaul on November 19th, 2004 1:23 pm

    He’s not.

  6. Dave on November 19th, 2004 1:24 pm

    Williams is a decent cheap option to fill out a staff as a LOOGY (Lefty One Out GuY) or a 6th man out of the pen. He’s the definition of replacement level talent. There are a ton of Randy Williams’ floating around. The M’s didn’t have room to keep this one; if they need another one, they are everywhere.

  7. PositivePaul on November 19th, 2004 1:31 pm

    To further my comments (and not to just copy Dave) I also saw Williams in Tacoma a few times, and wasn’t horribly impressed (though I did get his ball on autographed ball night). I agree with Mr. Thomsen’s more well-informed comments (as I usually do), and will add that he was good when he was on, but was horrible when he wasn’t. Reminded me of a lefty version of Bobby Ayala. Not someone who you want to watch come in during a 1-run save situation. Especially with a long-ball hitter on deck. At 29, he’s lost his prospect status, in my book.

  8. Dave on November 19th, 2004 1:35 pm

    For what its worth, Mike Curto (Rainiers broadcaster) kept talking Williams up to me during the second half of the year, saying he had added quite a bit of movement and really began to pick up some command. If you guys saw him in the first half of the year, you may not have seen the Williams that ended the season.

    Still, though, he’s a marginal lefty reliever. No big loss.

  9. Basebliman on November 19th, 2004 1:45 pm

    Re: #4 OK, I can die now. I’ve heard a name I never thought would be brought up again: Kevin King. I still remember opening day ’94 when he blew it in extra innings. What a pile of crepes he was!

  10. J on November 19th, 2004 1:48 pm

    Sooo… has the deadline passed already or is nothing announced? Because Brett Evert and Michael Morse needed to be protected…

  11. andrew on November 19th, 2004 1:53 pm

    PI reported that Mike Morse, Shin-Soo Choo and Wladimir Balentien have been added to the 40-man roster. And Ramon Santiago was outrighted to Tacoma.

  12. Dave on November 19th, 2004 1:55 pm

    Deadline is 9 pm tonight. And what Andrew said.

  13. J on November 19th, 2004 1:55 pm

    Slick… I knew I had forgotten about some guys, but I didn’t think Balentien would be on so quickly.

  14. Morisseau on November 19th, 2004 2:26 pm

    let’s just hope that the roster spot isn’t filled tomorrow by Corey f@#$ing Koskie.

  15. Troy on November 19th, 2004 2:30 pm

    Couldn’t agree more Morisseau.

  16. J on November 19th, 2004 2:38 pm

    Transaction noted, analyzed, and posted… Honestly, I think I have too much fun reading into these things…

  17. Paul Covert on November 19th, 2004 2:43 pm

    Any idea why Balentien had to be added? Had he been in the pros before his AZL season in 2003?

  18. Andy Stallings on November 19th, 2004 2:49 pm

    I don’t know much about 40-man rules–once a player is added, the team has to start using up their options, right?–but I wasn’t aware that Balentien (Choo, either, though he makes more sense) needed to be added this early in his career. If not, why would the team add Wlad at all, when they have a potentially interesting pitcher, in Brett Evert, hanging around the organization unprotected?

    In the end, it probably matters very little, of course. Evert is only marginally interesting, and it seems unlikely that he’d stick in the bigs for a whole year. All the same, it’s through little “huh?’s” like this, added up, that the front office annoys me in the course of the offseason. If you’re not going to use that open 40-man spot to protect him, why bother with the waiver claim in the first place?

  19. Dave on November 19th, 2004 2:50 pm

    It doesn’t matter when you actually appear stateside; as soon as you sign a professional contract, the clock starts ticking. You’ll often see much younger international players being subjected to the rule 5 draft after their teams don’t push them very quickly; Johan Santana (lost by the Astros, picked by the Marlins, then traded to the Twins) is a classic case.

  20. J on November 19th, 2004 2:50 pm

    He spent two seasons in the Venezuelan Summer League and (I believe) part of one season in the Dominican Summer League prior to that. It could be that those actually do count against service time, which means he could have been picked up in the rule V draft by someone. Not that it wouldn’t have been a tremendous risk and a waste of roster space by whoever did it, but he does have a ton of power potential.

  21. Dave on November 19th, 2004 2:51 pm

    Evert was claimed mainly because Tacoma had about three pitchers with a pulse at seasons end. He cleared waivers with options left, a sure sign that no team is interested in using a rule 5 spot on him. I’d be pretty surprised if he stuck; he may get picked and returned, though.

    Choo and Balentien both needed protection. They weren’t added prematurely.

  22. David J Corcoran on November 19th, 2004 3:00 pm

    I am stunned they outrighted Ramon Santiago. Very happy, but stunned. Maybe the organization really is changing their philosphies.

  23. Paul Covert on November 19th, 2004 4:19 pm

    Okay, thanks, Dave and J. Somehow I had gotten the idea that DSL/VSL years didn’t count.

    By the way, would be more precise to say that the clock starts ticking as of “the year for which the contract is signed”? IIRC, Nageotte signed in August 1999, but it was a 2000 contract, and that bought him an extra year.

  24. jc on November 19th, 2004 4:22 pm

    I bet you kerfeld going too the padres has something too do with this deal.He signed this guy along with MADS AND SHERRILL out of the INDYS.I THINK THIS GUY HAS A CHANCE TO ATLEAST BE A MIDDLE GUY WHAT ARE HOGANS CHANCES?

  25. Paul Covert on November 19th, 2004 4:36 pm

    Also, since I haven’t seen this posted elsewhere yet, here’s what I get from taking the published roster at mariners.mlb.com, subtracting Williams and Santiago, and adding Choo, Morse, and Balentien:

    P (20): Atchison, Baek, Blackley, Franklin, Guardado, Hasegawa, Johnson, Kida, Looper, Madritsch, Mateo, Meche, Moyer, Nageotte, Pineiro, Putz, Sherrill, Soriano, Taylor, Thornton
    C (2): Olivo, Rivera
    IF (9): Bloomquist, Boone, Cabrera, Dobbs, Jacobsen, Leone, Lopez, Morse, Spiezio
    OF (8): Balentien, Choo, Ibanez, Reed, Snelling, Strong, Suzuki, Winn

    This adds up to 39 guys. Am I missing anybody, or did they decide to keep one spot of flexibility (allowing them to add somebody in the draft) at the risk of losing Brett Evert?

    Also, if I’m reading things correctly, Luis Ugueto is still on the Tacoma roster (he didn’t show up on the six-year FA list) but not the 40-man. If so, then wouldn’t it be ironic if…?

  26. jc on November 19th, 2004 6:49 pm

    Williams is alot better then a nobody!!!!The guy had a solid year at tacoma and other then his 1st outing in seattle he was very good.Came in twice to get Hank blalock out and did it both times .Yes in my mind he has more value then KIDA the 37 year old nothing,I would say kerfeld had something to do with this now that he works for the padres,

  27. Tom on November 19th, 2004 6:57 pm

    Anyone know why on earth they would protect Bloomquist?

  28. John on November 19th, 2004 7:02 pm

    No. He’s basically a replacement level player. Dozens like him available if you need one.

  29. Jim Thomsen on November 19th, 2004 7:53 pm

    Off-topic: It’s always instructive to watch the Oakland A’s dumpster-diving expeditions. This latest round yielded Beavis Bocachica and ex-Rainier Jermaine Clark, who always seems to get about 11 at-bats a season in the majors. Then there’s Jack Cust, a super-prospect just three years ago who has lost about 400 percent of his perceived value, and Jimmy Serrano, whose most noteworthy moment in the majors last season (as a Royal) was hitting Ichiro in the head. Monster-sized “Moneyball” mistake Jeremy Brown was added to the A’s 40-man. None of them will do anything interesting in the majors, but the A’s seem to have a fully-staffed scrounge patrol scouring the scouting and stat sheets on sumptuous overtime.

  30. Jim Thomsen on November 19th, 2004 8:00 pm

    Best name so far on any 40-man roster: Mets’ system outfielder Ambiorix Concepcion.

  31. Chief on November 19th, 2004 8:10 pm

    FWIW FSN NW announced a few minutes ago that Koskie’s agent reported he expects an offer from the M’s momentarily. FSN also intimated that the M’s were serious players in the Delgado negotiations.

  32. David J Corcoran on November 19th, 2004 8:23 pm

    Bocachica is an A?? He doesn’t really have any knack for getting on base. He seems like they type of player Billy Beane avoids! That’s kind of interesting.

  33. Dave on November 19th, 2004 8:44 pm

    Concepion can really play, too. The Mets love him. The comparisons to Vlad Guerrero are pretty silly, but he’s got talent.

  34. eponymous coward on November 20th, 2004 12:03 am

    Hiram Bocachica’s 2004 EqA: .265
    Jolbert Cabrera’s 2004 EqA: .256

    Bocachica’s also only 29 (and thus has a better chance to grow a bit, he does have a little pop in the minors- 22 AAA HR’s in his last 135 games), and will be A LOT cheaper than Cabrera. Plus he can play IF too.

  35. Midwest Ms Fan on November 20th, 2004 6:56 am

    According to the Mariner’s official website where they announced the 40-man roster additions, they stated that Ugueto is on the 40-man and Masao Kida is off. Kida was subsequently signed to a minor league contract according to Baseball America.

  36. Adam on November 20th, 2004 10:59 am

    Crappy? Terrible? Why not say the jury’s still out on Gonzalez?

    The only time I watched him play, he turned on an inside fastball and hammered it into the night. Yeah it’s just an anecdote, but this is the type of thing that almost noone not in or speeding towards the majors can do. Why not let him have another season before writing him off?

    As for Guillen, it stings, but you may want to get ready for some soothing schadenfreude. Form the interviews I’ve read with him, Guillen’s the type of guy who’s only motivated by failure. He kept saying that the reason why he’s so succesful with the Tigers was “all the time in the batting cage.” Uh, Carlos, did you notice they had a batting cage just like that at Safeco?

    This means two things to me: 1) he would never have played with the M’s the way he played with Detroit, so his value was depressed, and they would never have gotten what he’s now worth (OK, they should have gotten more, but…); and 2) he will revert to form in 3, 2, 1…Watch him tank with the Tigers next year now that he has his contract. Guys with his attitude take success for granted, then are completely dumbfounded every time it keeps leaving them. Around the ASB 3 years ago, people were suggesting he was the best SS in the AL, too.

  37. eponymous coward on November 21st, 2004 10:28 pm

    Guillen’s contract’s pretty reasonable, actually. The M’s would have been doing well to get him at that price.

    I don’t get the hate for the guy. -shrug-