Delgado, Sexson

DMZ · December 2, 2004 at 6:21 am · Filed Under Mariners 

David Andriesen of the PI writes about the team’s free agent pursuits, and it’s reassuring:

The two top-tier free agents are Carlos Delgado and Richie Sexson, and the Mariners are thought to be after both. Contrary to recent reports, however, the twin pursuits are about keeping options open and will almost certainly not lead to acquiring both players.

“Recent reports” being the Seattle Times, mostly. Anyway, yay!

One possible hitch for the public relations-minded Mariners is Delgado’s quiet refusal to stand for the national anthem, a conviction that has rubbed many wrong.

This is not true. Delgado, when it’s possible, doesn’t stand and take his hat off for “God Bless America” which, as you probably know by now, I detest hearing at baseball games (I’ll spare you that argument for now). He avoids being on the field when it’s sung if he can, so as to not make it an issue.

To quote the Balitmore Sun, for one:

Delgado isn’t sitting out the national anthem. He’s sitting out a song that is played in some ballparks during the seventh-inning stretch at the direction of baseball commissioner Bud Selig.

Other articles that talk about this are available all over the place. Newsday. I’d cite the New York Times (July 21, 2004) on this, but you have to buy the article and… no. But here:

Last March when the United States invaded Iraq, Delgado, in his own quiet way, said that for him, enough was enough. He had stood for “God Bless America” through the 2003 season but vowed not to do so this season.”

This should not be a big deal. It’s not the national anthem. And even if it was… so what? If Seattle can’t accept a good guy who is anti-war, I’m going to be even more disappointed in humanity than normal.


76 Responses to “Delgado, Sexson”

  1. Jon Wells on December 2nd, 2004 6:33 am

    Derek — what are you doing up at 5 AM??!!?? I’m on the East Coast this week so it’s 8 here… yes, it’s nice to see both the P-I and the News Tribune contradict Finnigan’s report that the M’s are out to sign Sexson AND Delgado in a 24 hour span. Hopefully some of his other information is wrong too, like all the nonsense over how little money the M’s have to spend this winter…

    Bad news for us Willie Bloomquist haters — according to this morning’s News Tribune, Gil Meche and Jolbert Cabrera are the only
    Mariners eligible for arbitration (and the team has an option for $1.5 mil on Cabrera). This means that “Bloomy” won’t be a “Super Two” arbitration case and will be cheap for one more year. Given that we have a new manager there’s still somewhat of a chance that he won’t be on the ’05 team and I highly doubt that Hargrove will be guaranteeing him a roster spot like Bo Mel did in ’04 – it’ll be interesting to see who the club brings in as NRI’s…

  2. brain on December 2nd, 2004 7:47 am

    DMZ – I couldn’t agree more. The song is irritating and, frankly, it’s nice to hear that someone has the nuts to make a statement about it.

  3. Iron Tech on December 2nd, 2004 8:13 am

    I remember thinking when the story first surfaced about Delgado’s anti-war views “isn’t that what America is all about? Freedom? Even when one’s opinion differs from the mainstream?”. *sigh*

  4. Scott G. on December 2nd, 2004 8:41 am

    God Bless America irritates the hell out of me. I didn’t mind it when it started up after 9/11 but there’s no way it should have gone on this long. When they’re supposedly always looking for ways to quicken the pace of the game, you’d think they’d try to get rid of this time hog. Unfortunately taking it away now would be seen an un-patriotic so it’s not going away anytime soon.

  5. Idahobob on December 2nd, 2004 8:45 am

    I am outraged that “God Bless America” has supplanted “Take Me Out To The Ballgame” during the 7th inning stretch at many ballparks. This is a game of tradition, and Selig is messing around with one of the most subtle, and important. All for a cheap and shlocky attempt at “patriotism”. I come from a family of veterans, and I have a great reverence for this nation, but enough is enough. I won’t stand for the song and I certainly don’t hold it against Delgado for not doing so. I can only hope that the FO concentrates on the relevant issues of Delgado’s abilities as a baseball player, and leaves this patriorism BS where it belongs: in the trashcan.

  6. dave paisley on December 2nd, 2004 9:26 am

    Good for Carlos Delgado. If we got him I would support him all the way. It’s a detestable jingoistic song at the best of times. And didn’t we get rid of it at the start of last season at Safeco, but somehow it crept back in?

    At least we also sing Take me Out To The Ballgame to wash the taste away quickly…

  7. Conor Glassey on December 2nd, 2004 9:27 am

    It shouldn’t really be an issue – the Mariners rarely play God Bless America anyway…

  8. Matt on December 2nd, 2004 9:33 am

    I’d think we should start singing Woody Guthrie’s “This Land is Your Land” but maybe that’s a bit too over the top. *stokes fire with really big communist stick and cackles maniacally*

    I did hear they’re going to stop making Cracker Jacks, so we do need to at least edit “Take me out to the ballgame” or find another song. (What other snack rhymes with “I don’t care if I ever get back”?)

  9. P.Jizzle on December 2nd, 2004 9:34 am

    Keep in mind also, that when the M’s DO play GBA, they play the badass Ray Charles version. In my world, that makes it ok and far less annoying. I am also thankful, of course, that those yahoos aren’t playing “Proud to Be an American” which just makes me want to go hit somebody.

  10. DMZ on December 2nd, 2004 9:49 am

    Rarely? I believe it’s first game of every homestand + Sundays + special days, which adds up pretty quickly.

  11. Thomas Prowell on December 2nd, 2004 9:52 am

    I don’t know which makes me feel more and more disillusioned with the front office — the fact that they’re pursuing an overpaid, declining player like Delgado in the first place, or that they’d decide to pass based on the way he expresses strongly-held-but-possibly-controversial beliefs in a quiet, dignified fashion. (Better for Delgado that he’d be a wife-beater a la Al Martin, apparently.) Seriously, here in the Blue State of Washington can the M’s be any more out of synch with the feelings of their fanbase? Can they be more out of their minds with regards to player evaluation? Lincoln, Bavasi, et al — you guys don’t have a clue.

    This year will be the first one in, oh, six or seven that I’m not buying any sort of season-ticket package.

  12. Ken Hanselman on December 2nd, 2004 9:53 am

    Bavasi’s #1 rule seems to be that “good baseball teams must have an expensive, power-laden, defense-challenged guy at 1B.” Witness the Mo Vaughn signing, the Olerud cut, and now we have the “Daily Delgado.” I like Delgado as much as the next guy (and I totally support his right not to stand for GBA), but I wouldn’t give him $40M over 4 years (which is what I think will be eventually offered).

  13. hans on December 2nd, 2004 9:57 am

    I’m still not ready to cheer “yay” about the rumor that the M’s will be pursuing EITHER Sexson OR Delgado. Fundamentally, neither of these players are what the the team really needs right now. The team really needs YOUNG players that have a good chance to IMPROVE and MAINTAIN performance over the next SEVERAL years (like at least the next 5 years). It’s not so much the injury risk thing. Every ballplayer is an injury risk more or less. Its that the human body is just less able to recover as effectively or quickly when it’s more than 30 years old than it was when it was only a 25 year old body.

    The Giants (God bless them for their contributions to the aging veteran players in the league) can approach the offseason differently because they are looking at a very short time before their centerpiece becomes too rusty or becomes illegal. The Mariners are rebuilding and need acquire parts that will help them in the long term. They don’t have a centerpiece to get rusty or illegal. A centerpiece (or a few of them) are what they need to focus on, and they need to find one that will last as long as possible before it gets rusty. That’s why the petina on Delgado should steer us in another direction, and the rusty pitted holes in Sexson should make Bavasi hang up the phone now.

  14. R on December 2nd, 2004 10:13 am

    God bless America sums up everything that is wrong about this country in one tacky package, and I welcome that someone in baseball has the cojones to protest in a dignified manner.

    I don’t really welcome either player as being the right one for the M’s at this time, but one rather than both is a glimmer of sunlight.

  15. vj on December 2nd, 2004 10:15 am

    re #8: If cracker jacks are discontinued, they could play ‘Take me out’ by Franz Ferdinand (don’t know if the lyrics fit but the title sure does).

  16. Pete on December 2nd, 2004 10:26 am


    Thank you for your post…means more people noticed the error. I sent Andriesen an e-mail about it last night because I was so upset.

    I just don’t understand how writers can make such huge mistakes…there is a massive difference in significance between the national anthem and “God Bless America.” I’ll post my e-mail and a response, if I get one.

  17. ajp on December 2nd, 2004 10:31 am

    “…go watch those athletes on steroids and crack…”

  18. Dave on December 2nd, 2004 10:32 am


    If you feel the need to post Andriesen’s response, we can’t stop you, but I will ask that you don’t do so here. One of my pet peeves is people feeling like they have a right to publish personal correspondance from others without their consent.

  19. Evan on December 2nd, 2004 10:37 am

    This only really got noticed because Toronto plays so many games in New York, and they play GBA at every game in New York.

    But they NEVER played the song in Toronto, so Carlos only had to avoid the song at select road games. Avoiding it at home games, too, will make his stance far more visible (and clear – everyone will then know he DOES stand for the Star Spangled Banner, just not for GBA).

  20. Morisseau on December 2nd, 2004 10:41 am

    several things re: god bless america. I don’t think it went away at all; just that Czar Bud’s decree is that it’s played on Sundays and on nationally televised games. Also, I think that it’s played in addition to the 7th inning stretch, not in place of.

    Personally, as an atheist/agnostic, it drives me crazy that I pay good money to go to the yard — quite frequently — and I have to stand for a song extolling god. I think that there should be no place in baseball for that.

    regarding delgado, however — suck it up , fella. When my boss tells me to go outside for a fire drill, I do. Should be as simple as that.

  21. clovie on December 2nd, 2004 10:48 am

    Seattle would accept it. Unfortunately few of the rednecks that show up at Safeco for games would.

  22. Evan on December 2nd, 2004 10:50 am

    Maybe Delgado will demand a clause in his contract that excuses him from GBA. That’d be great press.

  23. Harry Teasley on December 2nd, 2004 10:53 am

    #15: I’ve been waiting to go to a game and hear Franz Ferdinand played when the starter is pulled. It’s so obvious; has it been played for that yet? (I only went to two games last season, Fenway is expensive).

    And thanks to USSM for this issue, I had been meaning to send mail to MLB about it. I just did, via their fan feedback form at, asking them to please stop encouraging GBA. It’s a loathesome song, and like Delgado, I have made it a point to not stand during it when at games.

  24. Pete on December 2nd, 2004 10:56 am


    You make an excellent point. I’ll do nothing of the kind…Apparently I don’t think sometimes.

  25. Morisseau on December 2nd, 2004 11:07 am

    Clovie, I personally think that Safeco field is about as redneck-free as baseball parks get. You’d be hard-pressed to find more khaki pants at the GAP.

  26. Troy on December 2nd, 2004 11:12 am

    Well, I guess I’m somewhere in the middle on this. I don’t hold it against Delgado for not standing for God Bless America, and I’m not particularly fond of it being played during the 7th inning stretch. Right after 9/11 it was okay, but it seems like the National Anthem should cover the patriotism quota to me.

    That said, why the hatred by so many on this board for the song itself? I don’t think the song so much extolls God as it does the USA. Why is that such a bad thing?

  27. Ralph Malph on December 2nd, 2004 11:12 am

    He’s not American, and his team wasn’t an American team. Why should we care if he stood for GBA?

    If I went to Venezuela and played for a team there, and they went on a road trip to the Dominican Republic, I would stand up and take my hat off for the Dominican national anthem as a gesture of respect. But if they then played, during the 7th inning stretch, “God Bless the Dominican Republic”, I think it wouldd be OK for me to go into the locker room and take a leak during it.

  28. Aaron on December 2nd, 2004 11:25 am

    Things I’ve learned in this thread: “God Bless America” is an ‘irritating’ ‘time hog’ and a ‘cheap and shlocky attempt at “patriotism” … BS’ which is ‘detestable[,] jingoistic,’ ‘annoying,’ and ‘tacky’ which is only enjoyed by ‘rednecks.’

    Makes me glad I live in a Blue State of Tolerance and Open-mindedness.

    Sit or stand, makes no difference to me, as long as he earns his money on the field (whichever field that may end up being).

  29. Harry Teasley on December 2nd, 2004 11:32 am

    GBA raises one religion above others, and implies that the invisible superhero who lives in outer space cares about the U! S! A! more than He cares about anyone else in the world. It really is among the worst expressions of what it means to be an American.

    But so much is these days.[/rant]

  30. Dave on December 2nd, 2004 11:38 am

    And that’s enough red state/blue state/God/politics references for one thread. Back to baseball (or at least Delgado and the M’s) or move along.

  31. DMZ on December 2nd, 2004 11:39 am

    Puerto Ricans were granted US citizenship in 1917, so Delgado is a US citizen. I’m not sure why people seem to think that’s not the case. Puerto Rico is a commonwealth associated with the US, but it is a part of the country.

  32. Evan on December 2nd, 2004 11:44 am

    Which further makes me wonder why they get their own World Cup team.

  33. jwb on December 2nd, 2004 11:50 am

    An unequally represented part of the country, though. While I agree that Delgado is not exactly the guy I’d be targeting this offseason, he at least is an improvement over the “bats” we landed last winter.

  34. Jon on December 2nd, 2004 11:53 am

    I, too, am disappointed in Andriesen’s error, because he otherwise went to some effort to give an even-handed analysis of the two players and the M’s efforts to acquire them. His boneheaded mistake obscured a reasonably thoughtful piece. I trust he will correct it.

    That being said, it is sad that the M’s have successfully deflected the attention of even the better reporters away from Beltran and Beltre. They have acquiesced, just as the M’s had hoped, to the notion that the M’s have very limited means and so cannot pursue the quality younger free agents. Sigh.

    Of course, I, like many others here, predicted the M’s wouldn’t really put their best foot forward. Maybe Lincoln will surprise me and we’ll learn soon that their stealth plans to obtain Beltran and/or Beltre were successful.

  35. msb on December 2nd, 2004 12:12 pm

    “GBA raises one religion above others, and implies that the invisible superhero who lives in outer space cares about the U! S! A! more than He cares about anyone else in the world. It really is among the worst expressions of what it means to be an American.”– Comment by Harry Teasley — 12/2/2004 @ 11:32 am

    of course, the song in question WAS written by a Russian-Jewish immigrant in response to the first World War… :)

  36. giuseppe on December 2nd, 2004 12:24 pm

    P. Jizzle,

    Do the Mariners really play the Ray Charles version of God Bless America, or do they play America the Beautiful? I thought the Ray Charles song that was making the baseball rounds was America the Beautiful. I could be wrong. Just wondering. Anyone?

    Also, I think it’s sad that Delgado not standing could even be an issue. People shouldn’t even have the opportunity to make the mistake of thinking he doesn’t stand for the national anthem. It should be a non issue. He has every right to not stand for whatever he wants. I know, I’m preaching to the choir, but does the irony really escape all these neo-patriots?

    Anyway, we shouldn’t sign him because he’s aging, not because of his political beliefs. Ageism is better than jingoism.

  37. Jon Wells on December 2nd, 2004 12:39 pm

    Speculation has already started by Jayson Stark at ESPN that the Yankees could be able to void the remainder of Giambi’s deal ($80 mil left) because of the steroid admissions (as a breach of contract). That could be bad for the rest of baseball as NY would then have more money to spend on other players, possibly Delgado for 1B or Beltran…

  38. media critic in NV on December 2nd, 2004 1:09 pm

    “They would still have the option of using big Bucky Jacobsen as a power source, with the understanding that he needs a solid spring camp to make the club again.”

    Did anybody need Pocket Lint to tell them that Bucky is “big?” “Big” sounds like a word my 5th grader would latch onto there. And by the way, Lint, with a long extension cord, couldn’t the M’s just plug themselves into this Power Source rather than suiting him up? A truly abysmal work there, Times.

  39. Ralph Malph on December 2nd, 2004 1:14 pm

    Apropos of nothing…

    Irving Berlin, who wrote God Bless America, also wrote White Christmas and Easter Parade.

    I have looked at the lyrics again and while I totally oppose using it during the 7th inning stretch I fail to see what anyone could find offensive in the song. It’s not asking an “invisible superhero” to help America vanquish its enemies. It’s just asking the “superhero” to give America guidance. What is jingoistic about that?

  40. DMZ on December 2nd, 2004 1:26 pm

    Oh, and whenever I’ve been to the games, the person who butchers the national anthem comes back out to sing GBA if it’s one of those games.

  41. Grant on December 2nd, 2004 1:28 pm

    -Off topic
    Sorry to be posting this in this thread, but I hope you guys will answer a couple of questions.
    Dave and DMZ -
    What is your opinion of Jason Giambi? (Do you think he took steriods, if so do you think it is damaging to the game? Do you think his numbers belong in the record books with those that did not use performance enhacing drugs?)
    Also do you think that Barry Bonds used/uses steriods?

    I know there has been a lot of discussion on this, but I respect your opinions on baseball, and it is unclear where you stand on these issues.

  42. Michael on December 2nd, 2004 1:35 pm

    It is so good to hear the general sentiments about GBA in this thread. As a Non American who just happens to be a huge baseball fan, it drives me to distraction everytime the song is played, particularly when it is introduced in a sanctimonious tone. The National Anthem is fine, although I would suggest the Canadian one is played as well (as long as the Blue Jays are playing)and I have no problem with standing etc to show respect then. But with GBA, it really feels to me as though the idea of “America is soooo special, cos God thinks we’re the best” is being rammed down my throat. I appreciate that this is only my personal view, but Robbie Burn’s dictum may hold true about “Oh to see us….”
    Thanks to all who have given their thoughts here, its nice not to be alone….

  43. Nat Irons on December 2nd, 2004 1:41 pm
  44. Ralph Malph on December 2nd, 2004 1:57 pm

    Have you all actually listened to the lyrics? They basically say “I really like America, it’s beautiful and we are free here, and I want God to give us guidance in troubled times”.

    Is that so bad?

    While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
    Let us swear allegiance to a land that’s free,
    Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
    As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer.

    God Bless America,
    Land that I love.
    Stand beside her, and guide her
    Thru the night with a light from above.
    From the mountains, to the prairies,
    To the oceans, white with foam
    God bless America, My home sweet home.

  45. tvwxman on December 2nd, 2004 3:01 pm

    As one of those people who live in a red state and one of those who would probably be considered an evil conservative, I don’t care what Carlos Delgado does during the singing of “God Bless America” as long as it’s not disruptive.

    If he refuses to doff his hat or stand, it’s not hurting anyone. If he, say, ran out to center field and burned the flag, I would have more of a problem with it — not that burning a flag isn’t a legit form of protest, just that it would be the wrong time and place to do so.

  46. Grant on December 2nd, 2004 3:08 pm

    #44 – Is it so bad that Delgado does not want to stand and listen to it. If I were a major league player I would do the same as Delgado for two main reason, 1- I feel that I supports the war in Iraq, and 2 – I think it is inapropriate to make everyone in the stadium honor a song that is Christian when so many people there are not Christian.

  47. Rebecca Allen on December 2nd, 2004 3:26 pm

    The question isn’t what SEATTLE will accept, it’s what the M’s OWNERS will accept. And no, I don’t see them accepting a player who’s known for anti-war views. I’ll be shocked if Delgado becomes a Mariner. This is the ownership that endlessly prioritizes appearance over substance, after all. (I’m not saying that I think Delgado would be a good acquistion–I don’t know enough to have an opinion about that–I’m just saying I have endless confidence in the M’s ownership’s ability to make decisions for bad reasons.)

  48. Ralph Malph on December 2nd, 2004 3:29 pm

    No, it’s not bad. I am perfectly fine with him not listening to the song. I wish they wouldn’t play it at games. I just don’t understand why people are so offended by the song.

    No, the song is not “Christian”. It is monotheistic, but it is not Christian. Irving Berlin was Jewish.

    I have not seen any team ever “make” everyone in the stadium honor the song. When I go to games, most people don’t sing. I don’t sing it.

    The song supports the war in Iraq??? I don’t agree. They started singing it long before the war started.

  49. giuseppe on December 2nd, 2004 3:34 pm

    The song may not, but the playing of the song or the endorsement (by standing, taking off one’s hat) of the playing of the song, in some people’s view is endorsing, albeit indirectly, the war in Iraq.

    More to the point, Delgado’s subtle protest is pointedly NOT supporting the war. So, anyone not protesting as he is, is supporting the war. Maybe. To some people. Somewhere.

  50. Basebliman on December 2nd, 2004 3:42 pm

    Re #38: You are right about the Ray Charles song. I was about to post that if nobody else brought it up. It’s “America The Beautiful” that they play from him. I’d rather hear Mr. Charles’ song every game than GBA.

  51. Red State Fan on December 2nd, 2004 4:08 pm

    Fortunately, I live in the great red state of Texas where they appreciate the freedoms granted by “our creator” (a nation-state does not give freedoms, they can only restrict or take them away). I think it is foolish that many of you on this thread take for granted what us as Americans are born into or have come to this country to enjoy. Just because we may have a difference of opinion on whether or not going to war was right nor wrong, does not mean that you should trash your country, and call it evil, etc. If you feel so strongly about hating our nation and its patriotism…or as you put it jingoism, I would suggest going to that country about 150 miles north of Seattle. It is hard to believe that “enlightened, politically correct, and tolerant” people of the Northwest could be so hateful and disrespectful. Harping back on a previous thread, what other nation could give Mr. Delgado the opportunity to make millions of dollars playing baseball? I think I would show a little respect to the one and only nation where that dream could come true. And by the way…the Mariners are a private company in which they can do whatever they want. They are not under the thumb of the government’s so-called “separation of church and state” (which is nonexistent if anyone cared to look it up in the constitution). If they wanted to play a video of the dalai lama up on the screen giving words of advice, they would be more than able to do so. Although, I would bet that all you blue staters would be complaining about that then as well. Good day.

  52. chris w on December 2nd, 2004 4:11 pm

    Regarding GBA… Whether it’s Christian or Jewish or whatever, it doesn’t matter – God Bless America is, in title and lyrics, a religous song that has nothing to do with baseball. It shouldn’t be played. Between the National Anthem and Take Me Out to the Ballgame, you’ve got plenty of singing covering all the requisite subjects.

    Regarding Delgado’s political views… Whether or not they’re relevant and to whom, baseball has a long history of being less than accepting of diverse views. In particular, as I understand it, anti-war baseball players in the 60s and 70s were persecuted if they were outspoken. This smells like that, and it stinks.

  53. DMZ on December 2nd, 2004 4:16 pm

    This whole red/state blue thing is entirely false and if we could, please, knock off calling each other names, that’d be nice. Don’t make me shut down two threads in a day.

  54. ATK1984 on December 2nd, 2004 5:07 pm

    Hey, you know what, I didn’t care for the fact that you eliminated my comments earlier in regards to Jason Giambi using steroids; however, I believe that this post — if it continues to get overpolitical — probably ought to be halted, for it is not a discussion about baseball, but rather politics, which is unecessary.

  55. DMZ on December 2nd, 2004 5:15 pm

    Thank you for your input.

  56. moira on December 2nd, 2004 8:02 pm

    Please please can we talk about baseball again!! Anyhow, Jon makes an excellent point (commment 34)when he says that the M’s have managed to deflect attention from the possibility of Beltran/Beltre. What’s the consensus, are we giving up on that now? For a while I was thinking the M’s might be ready to give that a shot, but I’ve been hearing less and less optimism on that point in recent days. I’m not as anti-Delgado as I once was (and before anyone says anything it’s because I think he’s getting old, not for any political reason at all) but if that’s the big exciting deal we’ve been waiting for in this off-season I’m going to be very disappointed.

  57. Alex on December 2nd, 2004 8:37 pm

    Yes, once again the M’s are using Enron-type accouting to cry poor. It’s not a surprise, unfortunately. The funny thing is, the M’s are owned by successful businessmen. In any business, the decision-makers must take calculated risks. Why can’t do the same with our ballclub?

  58. Bela Txadux on December 2nd, 2004 10:15 pm

    Actually, the thing that I like _most_ about Carlos D. is his refusal to be used as a billboard for American self-righteousness, and to the extent that I’ve followed this particular issue it is also clear that Carlos has gone miles out of his way to avoid making an issue of all this: it’s his _personal_ view, and he shoves it on nobody, particularly not on his team or his organization. It’s so rare to see an athlete in the public eye carry himself with both conviction and dignity on a matter of this scale (or of any scale), that to me his decision says quite alot positive about him as an individual. I’d like to have that individual on my team if I didn’t have major, very serious concerns about other issues affecting his future performance as an athlete.

    For the record, I actively despise the playing of “God Bless America” at the ballpark, and feel much the same way as Carlos seems to feel: my time and presence have been hijacked to give the appearance of support for someone else’s political and social agenda, an agenda which, to add injury to insult, I totally oppose.

    . . . Let’s sing Finlandia if we’ve got to sing anything: it’s about patriotism as a function of ones belief in ones fellow human beings. Sez me.

  59. Tim on December 2nd, 2004 11:12 pm

    I agree with Bela concerning Delgado’s personal dignity. On the other hand, while he is clearly no longer a $17M/year player (if he ever was), I don’t think he is washed up as an offensive force. I definitely would support the gamble of a $30M 3yr contract and probably even a 4th year at say $9M per.

  60. Gary Bloom on December 2nd, 2004 11:19 pm

    If the Ms don’t go after Delgado because of his politics, then will they not go after Beltran for publically endorsing W for re-election? Sorry Dave, but I thought that someone should point out that either politics count or they don’t.

  61. Gary Bloom on December 2nd, 2004 11:26 pm


  62. Daddy Driz on December 3rd, 2004 7:53 am

    Re: Post #37, even if the Yankees have grounds to void Giambi’s contract (which I highly doubt, see below) it will take a year or more of legal wrangling to be successful. Next offseason will the Yankees be able to get out of the contract? Perhaps. But it won’t affect this offseason.

    Now, as to whether a contract can be voided for steroids use, here is the clause in all MLB contracts:

    “7. (b) The Club may terminate this contract upon written notice to the Player (but only after obtaining waivers of this contract from all other Major League Clubs) if the Player shall at any time:

    (1) fail, refuse or neglect to conform his personal conduct to the standards of good citizenship and good sportsmanship or to keep himself in first-class physical condition or to obey the Club’s training rules; or

    (2) fail, in the opinion of the Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team; or

    (3) fail, refuse or neglect to render his services hereunder or in any other manner materially breach this contract.”

    Think of how many teams would have had an argument under subparagraph (2), and how many have actually tried it. Right. 0. No team would want to take on the MLBPA by trying to invoke that clause, and the Yankees would be loath to invoke subparagraph (1), which is a fairly specious argument, anyway. IMHO.

  63. DMZ on December 3rd, 2004 9:39 am

    While technically it may be true that no team’s ever voided a contract based on that clause, teams can and have used related language in contracts to void them, or to negotiate buyouts for far below remaining contract value. Take Ron Gant, for instance, who saw his entire contract voided when he hurt himself in a bike accident.

  64. Ralph Malph on December 3rd, 2004 11:24 am

    They wouldn’t necessarily have to rely on that clause — fraudulent misrepresentation, or violation of the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing (assuming they could prove either), would be grounds for revocation of a contract.

  65. Bill on December 3rd, 2004 11:34 am

    If the Yankees do manage to void his contract, wouldn’t he be worth looking at as an option at 1b? Seems like 80% of juiced Giambi would still be a fine hitter…

  66. eponymous coward on December 3rd, 2004 12:51 pm

    It’s “reassuring” that our two targeted FA’s aren’t the best young players?

    Hello, lowered expectations!

  67. Nadav on December 3rd, 2004 1:26 pm

    Is it blasphemous to sing “God Bless the Mariners” instead of “God Bless America”? It kind of sounds the same, and they could use all the help they can get…

  68. Eric on December 3rd, 2004 3:44 pm


    Isn’t it a different clause that is used to void the contract when a player hurts himself in a non-baseball related activity, like Gant and Aaron Boone?

  69. DMZ on December 3rd, 2004 4:01 pm

    Generally, players have contracts beyond the standard ones, which include a specific (and often very long) list of specifically prohibited activities, so as to be absolutely clear about things they can’t do (so you can’t play basketball and claim that it’s a normal household activity blah blah blah). It’s really just a much more specific and rigid version of that clause, but if you got into (say) competitive knife-throwing and cut your tendons, they’d go after you on the standard language and not the specifics.

    If that makes sense.

  70. Evan on December 3rd, 2004 5:04 pm

    First of all, I thought Delgado was protesting weapons testing in Puerto Rico, not the war in Iraq.

    Second, I really don’t want Delgado playing for the Yankees. I really like Delgado, and I hate the Yankees. So, I WANT the Yankees to be stuck with Giambi’s contract. It was a terrible contract when they signed it.

    Third, if I’m Giambi’s lawyer, I want to track down whoever leaked that Grand Jury testimony. That leak might cost Giambi $80 million, and someone needs to pay for that.

    These Grand Jury leaks are what I find most irritating. Secret testimony should stay secret, regardless of its content. You could even make a credible case that the judiciary is at fault for failing to guarantee the secrecy of the proceedings.

  71. DMZ on December 3rd, 2004 5:09 pm

    “First of all, I thought Delgado was protesting weapons testing in Puerto Rico, not the war in Iraq.”

    He has protested against Vieques weapons testing before. His not standing for GBA isn’t specifically about anything, though Delgado says he associates playing the song with the US military action in Afghanistan and Iraq… so it’s mostly about that.

  72. Evan on December 3rd, 2004 5:16 pm

    Ahh, yes. Rereading the NY Times article, I understand his position better. Thanks.

    Yay him for having a position. I was equally supportive of Mike Piazza when he disputed global warming claims.

  73. Evan on December 3rd, 2004 5:36 pm

    Oh, and note that “the cream” and “the clear” didn’t qualify as “prescription” or “illegal” drugs while Giambi was using them, which is a required condition if the Yankees want to void the contract.

  74. LB on December 3rd, 2004 6:59 pm

    #51: Harping back on a previous thread, what other nation could give Mr. Delgado the opportunity to make millions of dollars playing baseball?

    Good question. According to his page at, Mr. Delgado was signed by the Toronto Blue Jays in 1988. Since then they have paid him more than $86 million to play baseball, so the answer to your question would be… Canada!

  75. Jeff on December 4th, 2004 11:26 am

    “I’d cite the New York Times (July 21, 2004) on this, but you have to buy the article”

  76. Jeff on December 4th, 2004 11:32 am

    Oops, I’m sorry about that.