Sexson signs, 4y $50m
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[ESPN][MLB.com has it as $48m]
“We have stated from the outset that our primary goal this offseason was to add offense,” general manager Bill Bavasi said. “Richie was one of the premier free agents available on the market.”
PAYING ME FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS WOULD NOT MAKE ME A PREMIER FREE AGENT ARRRGHHHHHHHHHHHH
“Any time you add a hitter with numbers like Richie has produced over his career, it helps to legitimize your lineup,” Mariners manager Mike Hargrove said in a statement.
Helps to.. whaaaaaaaaaat??!! Does he come with a notary seal on his forehead?
HIRING FOR INTANGIBLES IS DOOMED TO FAILURE!!! SEE LAST YEAR’S GRIT DRIVE AND VETERAN LEADERSHIP HIRES!!!! WHYYYYY GOD WHYYYYYYYY??
Comments
123 Responses to “Sexson signs, 4y $50m”
Now things are clear for us to sign delgado at 4y $64m
Jeremy Burnitz is next.
This sounds like an even higher contract than what was initially discussed here and on other websites.
Can you clear up the backloaded contract thing? Why? Why pay someone so much in the final 2 years when he’ll likely be starting to decline. It’s not like football where you cut him or restructure. Hmm….
I hope this guy doesn’t wind up being the next Pete O’Brien.
Why does my gut tell me that he will be collecting the last 2 years at 14 million while sitting at home after badly injuring himself again.
Figures. Now we have a bad contract in ’07 & ’08 to whine about when the time comes. There’s allways hope the Mets’ll take his contract then.
I offer both my condolances and a welcome to the world of backloaded contracts. As a giants fan I can commiserate with your current predicament.
Jason: “What’s wrong, Dave?”
Dave: “A great disturbance in the Force. It was like a million voices crying out in unison, then suddenly silenced.”
Jason: “Oh.”
Dave: “Or maybe that was just Derek. I hear we signed Richie Sexson for 4y/50m.”
The gamble on the backload is he has 1-2 healthy years. Plays well and we can dump him because his value increased to match or exceed the 2 remaining years on the contract. Gives us an opportunity to offer him a long term contract, but still get out of it relatively cheaply if we change our mind on the injury risk.
I wonder how much of sexson signing is Hargrove pressing for the guy, and Bavasi being a pushover on it.
Re: 9
Do you really think Sexson is tradeable with 2 years and 28 million left on his contract, even assuming production in line with his career best over the next 2 years?
Derek (to Bavasi): “Hallo. My name is Derek Milhous Zumsteg. You overspent on free agents. Prepare to die.”
11, of course not. It’s not about what i think though.
Contract = Bad
Richie Sexson = Risk with possible upside
Big Sexy. mmmmm albatrosslicious.
So, uh, anyone want to recommend a new team to root for?
damn it, why the mariners sign a guy who has averaged hit 128 homeruns over 4 years and knock in 374 RBI’s to a deal? where are my rich aurillias! where are my spezios! where is my troy glaus! im apalled that the mariners would go out and GASP spend money, he sevely hurts our lineup, right guys? we were much better with bucky jacobsons lumber ass at 1B who has a sample of some 30 games, boy, what a terrible franchise
give me a freaking break, how bout wishing a guy luck instead of saying absolutely asanine things like “i hope a guy fails a physical”
boy, i sure hope a guy has a continuing pain, thats a pretty nice thing to say, i know that wasnt your intention but come on
I can’t take it any more. I’m going to go crack open the emergency beer stores. If someone could swing by my house before the feed and make sure I’m not dead about half an hour before festivities start, I’d really appreciate it.
Anything less than Beltre makes this off-season a complete disaster.
In past years, there was a steady increase in money from broadcast rights, merchandising and stadium deals. Backloading was VERY smart then.
THat’s much less so now, but there are still advantages in interest gained, etc.
“damn it, why the mariners sign a guy who has averaged hit 128 homeruns over 4 years and knock in 374 RBI’s to a deal? where are my rich aurillias! where are my spezios! where is my troy glaus! ”
Hey, we got him…and we paid $50 million for it.
This was a DUMB signing made even dumber by the injury factor.
ANd hell yes, I’d depend more on Bucky…he’s a hell of a lot cheaper, he’s shown potential in the minors, he’s done nothing to show he can’t do it in the majors,and he’s not going to handcuff you when you go after a Beltran or Beltre or Drew (who, by the way, are all playing positions that you DON’T have coverage for).
This signing makes me sad for two things:
1) That I’m not going to the feed this weekend, it’d be good to commiserate with others and pray for something that might salvage this offseason.
2) That I don’t drink anymore.
#10 If so, that’s Strike One against Hargrove
youd depend more on a guy whos played 30 games in the majors whos 2 years younger then sexson, on what happened after 30 games? good stuff
look, im not extremely thrilled that sexson cost that much money, but you guys make it seem like we just signed vinny castilla, which to me is simply unfair, everyone hear preaches patience, yet we have none, you really dont think sexson can be a valuable part to the offense at all? thats your mistake
C’mon Derek, tell us what you REALLY think…
Without Beltre this doesn’t make a whole lotta SENSE.
With Beltre it makes a WHOLE lotta sense. 3/4 of your infield is Gold Glove caliber (admittedly Boone is on his way down but is still a very good defender. Think that helps the pitcher?
Tell Beltre, now we got a guy who will make your life easier as a thirdbaseman, and you will have a 30+ HR/100+ RBI power in the 4 slot behind you. To me we just added SELLING POINTS to the Beltre pitch. Let’s see how it plays out before you burn Bavasi at the stake. Perhaps, just perhaps, Bavasi knows a little about baseball. Maybe even as much as you.
go, devil rays!
Seriously gentlemen and ladies, are any of us surprised at this signing? Bavasi has never shown much creativity or an eye for value so why would he change. Is Grady Fuson still available? Depressing yes, but let’s remember Boston had Duquette before Theo.
Beltre….is needed to make this….okay.
Re: 20, What about cracking open the emergency crack stores?
Oops, I meant Re: 17. Sorry #20!
Just for giggles, I took a look at baseball-reference for Richie’s similar hitters through age 29. Number one on the list? Mo Vaughn. There’s a depressing omen if I ever saw one…
The whole point is that the Ms paid $50 million for someone in a position where a good bat is relatively cheap to find. And DOESN’T have major question marks about a possible career ending injury.
At $6-7 million/year, this makes a whole lot more sense. But at $12.5?????? no way.
okay, i guess i’m being a negative nancy. i just saw the 50 million in bright lights and thought about all the guys we won’t be able to sign next year and the years after. but, then i read what DaddyO had to say and it inspired me to post again. if it does turn out to be a selling point to landing beltre… okay, i’ll be a positive polly. but, i’ll still be pulling for the rays to win the east. oh, wait…
I heard the last bit of the conversation that KJR had with Sexson tonight, and it sounds like he fully expects another 1B to be signed.
Beltre ain’t in the cards, I’d imagine.
Bavasi says we want one more “weapon” hitter, and a pitcher on the back end. Burnitz & Lowe, come on over! L-(
If the M’s still go after Delgado now, then I think they’re officially stupid! Sexson needs to play 1B or DH because if he’s in left field, it’s only a matter of time before he has to dive headfirst for a ball and destroy that shoulder again. Plus, Bucky is cheap and capable of putting up numbers maybe not quite as good as Delgado, but respectable in comparison. We don’t need a 5th aging 1st baseman. BTW, anyone have any ideas on who’s getting bumped from the 40-man to make room for Sexson?
What the hell?!?!!?? That is all.
If we sign Delgado at this point I think I’ll be sick. My big question for Howard is will the $6mil signing bonus come out of this year’s payroll. The M’s were well under their cap. If the signing bonus is applied to the 2004 budget, then the M’s still have plenty for Beltre.
Quit your bitching! Sexson has had ONE injury in his career. In 2003 he played every inning. He went through three sets of tests. This is not a player who has a history of playing 100 games a year. He is younger than Delgado, cheaper than Delgado, a better defender than Delgado, has as much power as Delgado, and wants to be here, unlike Delgado.
The M’s had to make a splash, and they did. You don’t think Sexson is a premier player? Consider he has spent his career in Cleveland and Milwaukee, and had his best years in Brew Town. If he were a BoSox or Yankee, he’d be considered an ELITE player.
This is a good signing, gives our franchise some legitimacy in the eyes of FA players, and signals to the fans (and current Mariners) that the front office is getting things done.
BOO-FREAKIN’ HOO. You all bitch and moan about the M’s not going after big-time players, and now that they do, you can’t stand it. Give me a break.
I think it’s now official…Damn the rules at the elementary school! Time for some drinking at this pizza feed! I think it’s the only way I’ll make it through. I’ll bring a keg of Oly. We could even play a drinking game – watch the Richie Sexson press conference/reaction and everyone takes a swig any time the words “intangibles”, “local”, or “power” is mentioned! Yeeeeeha! Time to get ripped!
Maybe I’m just a pushover but this is like a total early christmas present to me. Its a little depressing reading alot of the feedback on this signing though..
okay, i’m in full teeter-totter mode here. but, it just dawned on me what happened to the last team our new first baseman played for. must… stop… being so negative. easier said than done. sorry to those who are fed up with moaners and groaners such as myself. but, maybe we can get griffey back to keep our new guy company on the disabled list in may. sorry. i really can’t help myself. my typing fingers can’t be stopped. somebody delete my posts before i start spreading too much joy around. okay, rainbows and gumdrops… starting to feel better now.
If they come out of this with Beltre, I’ll give them a pass.
Delgado and I’ll be sready to storm the Bastille.
What a time for us to go rich and stupid.
Package this with Beltre, and it won’t hurt too much. But knowing the Mariners, this WAS their big signing.
Now they will go find some Raul Ibanez’s to fit around him, and hope people fill up the stadium.
I’m withholding judgement for a few days.
A) He might have looked good enough during his physical that they were no longer overly concerned about the injury.
B) if we’re willing to pay Sexson this kind of money, and we’re still hunting after Beltre, than presumably we’re willing to pay him as well or better. Which means the M’s finally turned a corner on what they’re willing to spend to put a team together.
C) He’s an improvement to the club. (He might not be worth that kind of money, but who cares if they are willing to spend it) The club is better. We didn’t have a 1B before. (Bucky is really a cheap DH) Now, assuming he’s healthy (see point A) we have a good one.
I really like the idea of Sexson on the team, I think he’ll be a great player both offensively and defensively. But $50 (or $48) million over 4 years? That’s a bit too much, especially considering the circumstances regarding his shoulder injury.
People want Beltre/Beltran. So that’s why there is bitching and moaning here.
But now that we signed Sexson, we will just have to root for his shoulders to be 100% and stay that way. Not a good signing but what do you expect from the front office? To get smart overnight?
Why couldn’t they have spent this sort of dough the previous 3 or 4 years?
Re: #44 I don’t think we’re ungrateful, I just think we’re concerned that a guy coming off a career-threatening shoulder injury is getting not only a HUGE money contract, but a 4-year one to boot. I bet if this was a 2-year deal the feedback wouldn’t be this negative.
why did the guy’s post I responded to disappear? Sorry if my last post doesn’t make any sense. Starting to become a trend, I’m afraid.
You guys…the Mariners just signed a big free agent. Try to be a little more enthusiastic. And try to remember that BB’s not done spending.
Geesh!
what happened to my original post? It was lewd or crass or off-topic. sigh
My roommate and I were comparing this to Vlad’s 5-year, $70M contract as follows:
Vlad, when the Angels picked him up, was a 4-year old 7-series BMW with 40,000 miles on the odometer, a clean CARFAX report, and a complete maintenance history, purchased from the dealer that sold it new.
Sexson, this year, is an 8-year old Cadillac Eldorado with 100,000 miles on the odometer and a salvage title, purchased from the body shop that rebuilt it.
But hey, the Mariners’ monthly payment is 14% lower than the Angels’, so they got a bargain, right?
I meant it WASN’T lewd or crass or off-topic.
#49 I believe people on this board are afraid of what BB will spend that money on next. Delgado at 4/$64m?
Hey poopsmith, your analogy is unfair. Glaus and the D’backs ruined this year’s market.
#51…Oh man, we could have gotten Vlad for the price we paid for Richie. This is what hurts the most.
I’m happy that they got sexson, in my opinion he is going to do great and drive in Ichiro all year. I’m not a fan of how much he will make though. I would have liked to see 3yr/36 but oh well. I wish him the best and pray he stays healthy.
Sexson ROCKS!
Even if we had to go to 5/$75m for Vlad, it would have been one hell of a better deal.
Some of this complaining on here is pretty ridiculous.
It’s analagous to buying tickets to Disneyland, going on Splash Mountain once, and then declaring the entire day a total disaster. We paid far too much to just go on Splash Mountain once, who knows if we’ll be able to get to Space Mountain or the Matterhorn, even though it’s only 10 in the morning, I’m assuming this day is going to be terrible until I see otherwise.
Like it or not, the Mariners had to prove that they’re willing to pay big money to improve their team. Everyone here knows their reputation, and you can bet that players know that reputation, too. If we show we’re willing to spend big money to improve our team, it sends a message. Would I have been happier with Sexson at 8 mil a year? Absolutely. But this first signing was essential, and in my mind, you pay what you have to pay to get it done. (I don’t want to make this comment absurdly long, so I’m going to separate it into two or three).
Re #54: I consider this a commentary on how crazy the market is this year…I didn’t mean to imply that if Vlad were available this year, he’d go for the same price. He wouldn’t.
I hop some of the “tests” he endured during his physical was hitting some 90+ mph pitches into the Safeco Field bullpen! I’ll be happy with that kind of testing.
ok you have two different ways to act about the sexson singing.
you can be excited and stoaked, or be mad and frustrated.
hmmmmm……
i’ll choose EXCITED!! oh yeahhh!!!! and STOAKED!! GO M’S!!!
if he ends up gettting hurt i’ll be mad and frusterated then, but not now.
also any mariner fans in L.A. or Orange county. I need some mariner buddies down here, we can go see the m’s at all the angel games it’ll be sweet!
All of the people complaining tell me what you think in a year when Sexson plays 145 – 155 games hits .270-.280 w/35 – 40 hr’s and 110 rbi’s.
Who was removed from the 40-Man roster?
adam k made a great point. i’m glad i read that before signing off. cool. it’s ten in the morning and we’re in disneyland. woo hoo!
Re: 62
In a vacuum, I would consider 280 40 hrs and 110 wonderful; however, consider the reality of the signing.
The m’s just signed a first baseman to a 50 million dollar contract who might not even be top 5 at his position in terms of peak offense. Not only that his next check swing might be career ending. Furthermore, his ability to hit for power after 2 devastating shoulder injuries is unknown. Not a good signing IMO
This has officially become the analogy thread! Let’s see here, it’s like seeing a listing for a brand new lamp on eBay and realizing it’s a little too rich for you, plus you don’t think it would fit in with the home interior (Guerrero). Then you see one that’s used and looks like it will fit in, no major defects, but too pricey (Delgado). Then you see one that’s used has a lower price, just a little more than you’d like to spend, but is probably a nice fit. The downside is it’s extremely fragile and could easily break when being sent to you in the mail (Sexson). How’s that for an analogy?
I should have known what to expect from a group of baseball geeks who hate EVERY move the M’s make, and make a joke of themselves with comments like these.
Tell me, almighty stat geeks….how many years have you spent negotiating contracts in Major League Baseball? How many of you have actually worked in MLB?
You make a joke of this site, placing your opinions up as if the are ABSOLUTELY right. Guess what? You’re not mor right or wrong than even Peter Gammons.
BTW, didn’t you tell everyone what a mistake signing Raul Ibanez was? You’re just a guy with an opinion with a place to state it. You’re no more an authority than the other 56 here who posted responses.
You have to take risks to succeed. You bitch when the M’s don’t take a risk……then carve them up when they do. Make up your mind. Not thinking like you is not wrong, only different. I know you believe highly in your opinions…..that’s pretty obvious.
The way everyone is crying, you would think they are docking your paycheck to pay Sexson. Yes, the contract is not bargain basement, but not many this year are. The Mariners need to get better in a hurry. Does anyone really believe that the team is not significantly better already? Sure, there’s more to be done but as a first step we could have done much worse. As far as injuries go, its a risk with any player any time. Even the best doctors cannot predict accurately and without personally examining a player and MRI, I doubt anyone on this site can either (Do not assume all shoulder injuries are the same).
Personally, I would like to see some left sided pop as well, and yes, I agree that Beltre would be nice but while we are spending someone else’s money, I think Beltran has a better chance of providing his money’s worth over the course of his contract.
……..oh god………
I saw this coming,though: he is _Bill Bavasi_ after all. I suspect Hargrove had the decisive weight on ths one, as he’s always liked Richie. I can’t bring myself to root against Sexson. I simply have no confidence at all in his shoulder, the $$$$ notwithstanding.
I don’t think that this signing affects the bid for Beltre in any way; the Ms figure to be in on that one until someone calls a press conference. The worst part of this deal to me by far is it means that the Ms are out of it for J. D. Drew, a much better player.
—But he’s _Bill Bavasi_, last-generation GM, so this signing is right at par for how he thinks a team should be built. He’s paying premium $$$$ indexed from the best year Sexson has had or possibly could, 2003, to a guy with a blown up shoulder he wants to put in LF. I’m profoundly unimpressed with his acumen, I think that’s clear. This franchise will be no fun to root for at all as long as our present FO is intact. They may get lucky but they’ll never get smart.
A few days back, Dave wrote that teams should completely ignore the middle class of players, claiming that they were extremely overvalued, and that teams should focus on great players, filling out the roster with younger, cheaper values. He groups Sexson in with the middle class of players.
I’ve got to agree with the formula for creating a team that he’s set up, I just disagree with his statement that Sexson isn’t a marquee player.
His walk rate has been steadily improving, from 60 in 2001, to 70 in 2002, all the way to 98 in 2003. He was trending upward in PECOTA. If he hits the way he did in 2003, I have no trouble classifying him as a marquee player. His defense is also excellent, solidifying the entire infield.
The only worry, then, is his injury. And, honestly, I can’t imagine the M’s signing him if his shoulder was in bad shape. The M’s FO backed off Glaus because of his shoulder injury, the fact that they didn’t with Sexson shows they’ve got confidence in it. Sexson might be more likely to get injured than your average player, but not significantly so, IMO.
I guess the main thing I’m saying is, we have to wait and see. While on the face it seems like we overpaid, I think we had to in order to send a message. If that message is only received by Jeromy Burnitz, I’ll be calling for Bavasi’s head just like the rest of you. But if, after this, we sign Beltre and Perez? I’d be EXTREMELY happy, and I’d hope that everyone else here would be, too. Nothing is accomplished by a rush to judgment. We’ve got to wait and see.
Look, maybe I’m one of the few people here who agree with the site’s hosts. Yet even though I am in the minority, I am wholly aware that you people who claim that jus’ because we claim that the Mariners should take [calculated] risk while in turn bashing the M’s for this decision, will also bash the Mariners if Sexson doesn’t work out. Yeah, that’s right, most of you are bandwagon jumpers who will turn away from the franchise come the time when the become the Baltimore O’s/New York Mets of the west coast.
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AW MAN!!!!!! PLEASE do not sighn Delgado now! Sighn Beltre! I’ll say that slowly for you, Bavasi! Beeeelllllttttrrrreeeee!!!!!!!!
Yes, I also would have preferred Delgado, but he would have been even more outrageously expensive and would not have signed quickly for what we were offering him, so Sexson is the next best option at 1B. We paid him $50 mill. because that’s where the market is this year. Would all you whiners have been happier if they hadn’t signed anyone at all, citing that they would only make deals that “made financial sense”?
Forget signing Delgado now and focus on Beltre.
2005 Sexson 140 games, .250, 30hrs, 100rbis, 175Ks
And hey, sign Beltran too while you’re at it!
Folks, there are risks. ANd there are stupid risks. The first is acceptable…the second is not. You can’t believe the whining? I can’t believe the lack of analysis done. Sure the team is better…but that’s like saying your headache’s better after blowing your cranium off with a magnum.
And, no…we aren’t whining when risks aren’t taken and whining when they are–wouldja at least do some simple reading comprehension. Do SMART risks. Beltre is a smart risk. Drew is a smart risk. Perez is a smart risk at $6M. Sexson is a smart risk at $6-7M. Sexson is a DUMB risk at $12.5 M.
Personally, I would’ve been happier with A.J. Zapp at first base at a lovely cost of approximately $1 million over three-years; however, that was never an option, because the Mariner’s FO is full of doltish morons.
Re #37 and # 43. Right on!!
For several weeks I have been reading the posts bemoaning the FO and hoping for a turn around in the FO performance. Well you got it. Yeah, maybe $50M is too much, only time will tell that. But, would you rather they spend $30M for the likes of Aurillio, Spezio, et al, instead? I suggest you hold off on the doom and gloom and wait to see how Sexson performs this summer. What we need now is a max effort by the FO to get Beltre in an M’s uniform and then go after another SP (maybe through a trade).
Re: #77, but where’s the local boy marketing commercial in that?
RE: #79
No doubt, that’s all that matters in their mindset; it’s all ’bout the good ol’ local boys.
Why do I feel that we are going to be the Red Sox of the new century? I just get the feeling with moves like these, Ken Burns the III is going to do a documentary on us in 2077. It will feature segments incompetent management, non-caring owners, horrible decisions, and “bad luck” with free agents.
I don’t blame Bavasi, Harvgrove, or Sexton for this obvious nightmare. Look at the top. This trend of horrible, horrible trends of bad signing, bad trades and horrible financial prudents goes farther back then these relative newcomers. So Mr. Lincoln and Mr. Armstrong, I am taking directly to you.
You “gentlemen” can’t manage or direct a ball club, despite you supposed reputation as a good businessmen. Your action ahead of the Mariners so far have proved this. You are lucky to work for a ownership that just cares about making a profit and doesn’t examine or care about the quality of the product. There is nothing wrong about making a profit, but to be making the money the Mariners do and not to put the quality which that money demands shows your ignorance and stupidity.
When we have another losing season this year, (even if we do sign Betre) you may fire Bavasi and Hargrove as scapegoats for a team that didn’t preform. Mr. Armstrong and Mr. Lincoln, the stupidity of the moves your employees reflex the stupidity of yourselves.
Ladies and gentlemen sorry for my rant. Since I already put the downpayment on my 40 game plan tickets package, I am little bit bitter. I wish I didn’t and hope so much hope in my team run by morons.
The sad thing is, I’m sure nearly all of us were happy that the Mariners were patient and avoided the landslide market on middle tier free agents. We were also happy that the Mariners avoided losing draft picks this year….
But the irony of all that is… back on the first day of the free agent period, November 12th, the Mariners were oh so close to signing Sexson, and yes, lose a 2nd round draft pick. The upside of Signing Sexson back then? His asking price was ONLY 3 years, with the estimated total bill estimates ranging from 21 million to 30 million, with 30 million believed to be TOPS. Since then, his price has literally doubled. Glaus has screwed us all.
From the start I have put forth my argument that Delgado was simply a much better fit for Seattle, and my feelings about getting Sexson, even at the 3 years, 21 million clip, were mixed. Now, for 4 years 50 million, I feel betrayed and screwed. Bavasi did the right thing by waiting, he really did. Its terrible that his wise move came back to bite the club so badly.
The argument that Sexson should have been a last resort instead of a first is a very valid one, however, Bavasi may very well have reason to be concerned over Sexson’s price a week from now, which, had Delgado recieved the 4/64 he was looking for, could have jumped Sexson’s price tag another 10 million.
In my opinion, there are only two avenues left to make me feel that the M’s had a “smart” offseason. The first is that the M’s land Adrian Beltre, who’s top offer, according to some sources, is a mere 5 years 60 million (by the M’s). The Dodgers are believed to be all but out of the running, which comforts me here.
The other alternative would be for the Mariners to acquire a solid starting pitcher, such as Clement, Perez, or possibly even Millwood, for a REASONABLE price. Then trade for at least a decent 3rd baseman, hopefully while unloading Spiezio in the process. I doubt we could get an Aramis Ramirez type, but even a Sean Burroughs seems alright to me at this point.
Re: 76
Unfortunately, Sexson was not available at $6-7 mil., so what are you going to do? Sign him at $12 mil., sign Delgado at $17 mil. or not sign anyone? We all knew the M’s had to make some big signings this year and this was what was available to them.
I don’t particularly care for a Sexson AND Delgado scenario. I think one of the arguments FOR the Sexson signing is Sexson’s DEFENSE. That and the fact that he was WILLING TO SIGN A BACKLOADED CONTRACT to help us make another big bat signing. We DO NOT KNOW what forces and obstacles Bavasi has faced in his attempts to land Delgado or Beltre. But I can guarantee you BAVASI KNOWS (of course). It is more likely than not that he has chosen this course BECAUSE HE HAD TO, NOT BECAUSE HE IS STUPID and has no plan.
re: 83
Having said that, I think they would now look stupid if they didn’t also get Beltre. If they were just getting 1 stud, it should have been Beltre, Delgado or Beltran.
Hmm, Bill Bavasi seems to have a thing for big contracts to 1B, doesn’t he?
And this puts Ibañez’s contract in perspective, now, doesn’t it?
re 86
Sometimes, one of the hardest things to recognize is when signing a player is just doing it to sign a player. If we paid Beltran $220M for 10 years, that would certainly improve the team…but is that the wisest move? Probably not—but I think it’s a wiser move than the Sexson one.
I also think it’s quite possible that the M’s signed Sexson precisely because he WAS willing to backload his contract. I probably would’ve preferred Delgado to Sexson at face value. However, if Delgado refused to backload his contract, Sexson becomes much more attractive. If, by virtue of Sexson’s backloaded contract, we could sign Odalis Perez, too? I’ll take Sexson and Perez over Delgado and Franklin any day of the week.
Again, the point is that making a snap judgment right now is foolish. If the M’s, as Bavasi alluded to in the press conference, follow this up with other big moves, I’ll be ecstatic. If it’s a Spiezio and Ibanez that go along with Sexson, I’ll be pissed off just like everyone else.
I’m not going to say everyone complaining here is stupid, nor are the people who simply ask whether this will “help the club” or not are stupid.
This isn’t an ideal move, and it does have the potential to be disastrous if the shoulder blows out. At the same time, if Sexson is a legitimate force in the middle of the order while playing outstanding defense, this won’t be a debaclous move. Moves like this, mixed with moves that have high upside for a reasonable price, allow for the crafting of a legitimate contender. Even the Almighty himself, Beane, has made some fairly expensive “mistakes” such as Dye, yet he is a minor deity among this crowd.
Nothing is done in a vacuum. Beane’s trade for Dye came with the knowledge that he’d cost a lot of money down the line, but he wanted to do something to help his club. Bavasi needed to do something to make a 99-loss club credible, in addition to all the other reasons to bring in some offense. The move isn’t ideal, and I certainly wish this was something more like $31m over 3 years, but try to keep it in perspective.
A few thoughts that haven’t been mentioned too often:
1. You all are being to hard on Ibanez. In the 2nd half (when healthy) he hit .333 with 20 doubles. Not bad.
2. I would rather have a real major league SS that can hit (Cabrera from the BoSox?) AND a starting pitcher than just Beltre alone. I’m not sure we can afford Beltre plus a starting pitcher, can we?
Ichiro
Reed
Beltre
Sexson
Ibanez
Bucky
Boone
Olivo
Lopez
#90: Well, with that much money spent already on a spent on Sexton. I doubt we can afford those parts (SS,SP, +Beltre) we need.
Sorry to be a glass half full kinda a guy but this sign really depresses me.
This signing is fine as long as they play him at 1B (ie- no Delgado). Yes, they overpaid, but his bugdet # for 2005 is only $6mm. With the $ coming off the book this year they can afford to overspend for a few guys. This is a high risk/high reward signing but they had professionals -something we are not- look at his shoulder to determine its soundness.
Hopefully, we are able to follow this up with more players. I would love to see Beltre or Drew AND Cabrera. Leave Lopez at Tacoma and let him play some 2B to get acclimated for next year.
Put me in the YES column for now, with an option to change my mind if Sexson ends up in LF.
Re #12
YES! I nearly fell out of my seat from laughing so hard.
I agree with Adam K. You can’t have it both ways. Quit complaining!
This is a good signing although it costs more than we wanted to spend. It will be a great signing if it paves the way for Beltre.
Enjoy the moment, have a little more patience, and pray for Beltre.
He’s confident his shoulder is ready after extensive physical exams by Mariners doctors. Word leaked this week at the winter meetings that a deal was close, but the agreement was delayed by three days of rigorous tests.
“I just went through a NASA experiment,” Sexson joked.
-I think it is safe to say that the Ms checked out his shoulder.
Right now, the team looks like this:
ROTATION
SP Joel Pineiro
SP Jamie Moyer
SP Gil Meche
SP Ron Villone
SP Ryan Franklin
BULLPEN
LS George Sherrill
LR Matt Thornton/Scott Atchison
MR J.J. Putz
MR Julio Mateo
SM Shigetoshi Hasegawa
CP Eddie Guardado(INJ???)/Aaron Taylor
LINEUP
RF Ichiro Suzuki
CF Randy Winn
2B Bret Boone
1B Richie Sexson
LF Raul Ibanez
DH Bucky Jacobsen
3B Justin Leone/Greg Dobbs
C Miguel Olivo
SS Jose Lopez
BENCH
C Dan Wilson
1B/RF Jolbert Cabrera
2B/SS Willie Bloomquist
3B/DH Scott Spiezio
CF/LF Jeremy Reed
…WHAT AN AWFUL TEAM!
AK1984: Um, if you can spot the 3 obvious errors you’ve just made that make that post a waste of your time, I’ll give you a month’s subscription to this site.
Have the comment threads here always had this element of ‘shut and sit down, you ingrates. You should be thankful that Lincoln wants us to be the Mets instead of the Brewers! Thankful, I say!’ and I just never noticed it, or is it new? Adam Tait and Chicken Little’s… *cough* agressive opinionating that we should be grateful for the (overpriced, decline-phase, plays-an-easily-replaced-position) blessings we have is leaving a rather unpleasent taste in my mouth.
wow, some people are really angry at the people who are angry. The problem, #58, isn’t that he’s costing 12/yr instead of 8/yr (well, yes, that’s part of the problem) – most of us would not like 8/yr, if its guaranteed for four years. I’m no doctor, but it seems the chances are greater that he misses half the time on the contract than the chances that he plays it all out. secondly, #78, i would rather they spend this money on aurilia’s, spiezio’s, etc (i just violated my own pet peeve of using people as common nouns), provided that they are one, or maybe two year contracts. Let’s face it – coming into this offseason there was almost no chance that we put together a team that is winning anything next year. The sensible thing is to overpay for beltre if necessary, or even beltran (not close to 10/200 though), and built the team around belt+ and ichiro, and pineiro, madritsch, (king felix?). lock up beltre for 5 or 6 years, fill the roster with one year stopgaps, and add another piece or two next year. That would still have left us with the money to sign clement or perez for 3 or 4 years, and add them to the puzzle. Signing sexson to a ridiculous contract that a fully healthy sexson probably won’t even justify is a setback that is very likely to prevent the mariners from competing for more than just this next year. It could have been one more year of <90 wins. Today it is much more likely than yesterday that our losing ways continue for more than a year.
Generally… no. They only come out for holidays and special occassions.
To DMZ: The slashes represent an either/or circumstance.
Nooooo, that’s not itttttttttttttt. No free month’s subscription for you.
What, Ron Villon hasn’t been signed yet; Meche is due either a new contract or will go to arbitration…Bloomquist is due the same thing, too…Not quite sure where my errors were, other than that.
Alright — the accidental error in the spelling of Ron’s last name notwithstanding — I understand my mistake; I was jus’ going on the assumption that they would retain the three of ‘em.
David, your statement that the chances are greater that he misses half the time on the contract than the chance he plays it out–that’s based on what, exactly?
You qualify that statement with “I’m no doctor,” and then proceed to give a medical opinion. That’s like me saying “I’m no surgeon,” then going on to perform an appendectomy.
The fact is, there are people who ARE doctors that examined Sexson’s shoulder–and OK’d it. Don’t you think they probably have a better opinion on the condition of Sexson’s shoulder than you do.
The Mariners have already shown reluctance when dealing with shoulder injuries (see Glaus, Troy). They’re not going to sign Sexson unless they feel his shoulder is in good shape.
People who are qualified to make judgments about Sexson’s shoulder OK’d it–he passed the physical. Could they be wrong? Sure. But there’s risk involved with every player. Based on the results of the physical examination, I’d guess that the Mariners don’t deem Sexson to be at a significantly greater risk for injury than your average player. If they did, they wouldn’t have signed him.
I believe your mistake is that you’re missing Bobby Madritsch from the starting rotation (and you don’t have him in the bullpen either). You’d rather pay big bucks to re-sign Villone and keep Madritsch in the
minors????
So, knowing that the M’s doctors approved Sexson’s shoulder, why not sign him to that deal?
Let’s say we overpay for Beltre, as David suggests, and build around Beltre, Ichiro, Pineiro, Mads, and Felix. I concur. However, I don’t see how signing Sexson to this contract precludes us from doing what you suggest.
Just for arguments sake, let’s say we’ve got Sexson, Beltre, and Ichiro making approximately 40 million dollars a year. Mads and Felix are making nothing, Pineiro’s reasonably priced. Lopez, Reed, Olivo are all making near the league minimum.
These are players that we deem to be cornerstones; really important parts of our future. And they’re all making near the league minimum. We can afford to have a large portion of payroll tied up in three guys, because so many of our younger players, guys that we’re going to depend upon if we want to compete, are so cheap.
Especially after Boone and Moyer come off the payroll, we’ll have a lot of freedom when it comes to payroll. Sexson’s contract isn’t an albatross that will follow us whereever we go. Our young players that we rely upon are all going to be pretty cheap. And what happens when they get into arbitration and start being more expensive? Sexson’s contract comes off the books.
Also, I don’t think I’m being very angry at all, certainly not as angry as many of the people deriding the front office here. If it came off that way, mea culpa. I just think that there can be a reasonable discussion of this, instead of one sentence comments that get us nowhere.
Really amusing to see some people hype a prospect( King Felix) no major league experience, and knock down a proven major leager-Sexson
Irony Irony Irony
RE #108:
How did I miss Madritsch? Good question…plug him in there over Villone, and place Villone at the long reliever spot; my error.
AK1984,
I think the point is…..GO AWAY!
DMZ I know the errors in post #98…. There are way more than three though….
2005 Mariners line-up:
1b. Ichiro (we can’t get rid of him)
2d. Willie B. (but tell him to keep his 1st base glove handy)
ss. Jolbert (can always play first in a pinch)
3b. Scott S. (has to play 3rd even tho 1st is his best position)
c. Dan W. (lou used him at first a few times; Grover can too)
lf. Raul (can switch him to 1st if our infield goes on the dl)
cf. Richie (he better play a premium position for the $ he is getting)
rf. Bucky ( can’t have too many slow lumbering 1st sackers in the line-up)
Do I get the free subscription?
So much negativity around signing Sexson??
Didn’t a lot of people were against signing Pudge for a long term deal last winter? Many said, no way, he was injured, so max 1 or 2 year deal. Tigets signed him for 4/40 and please take a look at his numbers last year (and the year before with Marlins coming back from injury) – heck, Pudge even finds a place in Dave’s top 20 this year.
People can come back from injury and peform well. Have some hope and optimism.
In the same tone, no one would have thought Sexson will injure himself last year – after playing every inning in all 162 games in 2003. So no one can guarentee that Beltran or Beltre are gonna be imjury free through the next 5 years.
Like some other guys here, I find it amazing that some people whine when M’s dont sign anybody – and they also whine when they do sign somebody (which is not as ridiculous as Pedro/Omar deal).
I don’t post here a lot, but I love to read the site. But this thread has denigrated into some painfully unthought out bashing.
1- All this “We did what you wanted and you’re still not happy!”
Um… no. No one bashing this deal wanted it. No one wanted the M’s to just spend money indiscriminately. They wanted a big slugger. They didn’t ask for a vastly over-priced first baseman who injured his shoulder on a check-swing. It’s silly to say we got what we wanted.
2- Disagreeing with a bad deal is not “being negative”. As I recall there were a lot of bad deals last year being bashed and how did they work out?
3- “Yeah, maybe Bavasi knows more than you!”
I think it’s time to entertain the possibility that, in fact, he doesn’t. I see no reason to believe that our front office is any more talented and informed than the people that run this site.
Look, it’s not like people on here just bash everything. They make recommendations. They say what they would like to see happen. They advocate. They accept criticism when their ideas turn out to be wrong.
My football team is the Miami Dolphins. Believe me, the front office does NOT know more than everybody else.
There ARE dumb GMs. There are DUMB deals.
If you want to be happy about this, no problem. Be happy. But it is just plain inane to come on here and bash the people that DON’T like this deal.
I think when I fly home this weekend I am going to the home depot, stocking up on pitch forks. Then I will drive down to the safe and sell them for a HUGE profit. You could make a killing doing this, just gotta find some place to buy torches also….
What exactly has Bavasi done as GM of the Mariners to make him so terrible? Fleece the White Sox? I know you don’t want to point to Spezio, Guillen, etc because we all know those were Gillicks deals as Bavasi wasn’t in position to make informed decisions at that time.
Personally, I give him the benefit of the doubt. If healthy (which the doctors say he is) then Sexson is making money in line with other first basemen around mlb putting up similar #’s (assuming they are/were FA eligible at some point).
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2004&seasonType=2&sort=OPS&type=reg&ageMin=0&ageMax=99&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=1b
117 – “We all know…” that? I don’t know that. Who was general manager?
You’re welcome to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I don’t. For me, it’s the opposite. I don’t think he has earned the benefit of any doubt at all. In fact, he should be on a very short leash indeed. Did you see how his team did last year?
He has made zero impressively good deals since he got here. He’s made terrible deals and smaller, ok deals.
Is it ok for me to criticize the Glauss contract? How about Pedro’s? Yeah? Then it’s ok for me to criticize this one.
Who would you rather have? Vlad or Richie? Then you choose which GMs to praise and which to criticize.
For those who are downplaying Richie’s injury history, let’s examine what actually happened to him.
Richie suffed a reverse sublocation of his shoulder (popping the humerus completey out of the glenoid fossa) while he was checking his swing (an ordinary baseball activity that happens several times per game). And then, as soon as he came back, he did it AGAIN.
And he hasn’t played since.
This is the sort of injury that could reoccur, not just in the activity that first caused it (something he’s going to be doing a lot anyway), but also even minor things like catching the ball.
Geez, he could hurt himself signing that big contract or waving to the fans down in Bush Prairie! C’mon, get real.
I hope this is the guy that takes on the “Jay Buhner” role for the M’s – funny guy, 40 HR, etc.
Look at Willis McGahee – his career was done in AAA (oops, I mean NCAA) football due to a devastating knee injury. A few weeks ago he paraded thru the Hawks like they were a B-8 team, and is having a solid rookie season (albeit delayed 1 year to recover). No one, including Sexson, Bavasi, or Pedagana, really knows what will happen here. We can only hope that a good decision was made. The most important point is that the decision was made. It’s over. Move on.
The M’s, and a lot of people here, seem to think that Sexson is one of the top hitters in the game. RBIs, who cares; it’s just not true. He’s a big HR basher, but his real numbers are good, not great: his career OPS is well under .900. Delgado’s, in contrast, is about a hundred points higher, more SLG and a LOT more OBP. Sexson is a HR basher; Delgado is an all-rounder, a plate monster in a number of different ways.
As someone above pointed out, Sexson’s #1 comp by age is Mo Vaughn; Delgado’s is Willie McCovey. I know which guy I’d prefer. And though Delgado’s older, by two years, he’s the kind of player who’s likely to contribute later than Sexson.
Keep in mind I’m not that big a Delgado booster. But that’s how much better Delgado is likely to be than Sexson.
I predict something closer to 33 HR, .260/.340/.499 or thereabouts. That’s if he’s healthy. Not a huge amount different than Ibanez, actually. That’s $3-4 million performance, not $12 million. And that’s money that can’t be used for something else, like Clements, Perez, or Beltre.
And the real problem, again assuming perfect health, is in a couple years, when (again like Ibanez) he’s putting up .210/.299/.401 or some such garbage. Sexson is a textbook example of a type of player who doesn’t age well. It’s bad to pay good players as if they were superstars; it’s worse to pay retired players so.
Joe Sheehan at BP says “All I keep hearing is Pete O’Brien”.
Right on target. .224/.308/.314 in 108 games, anyone? Adjusted upward for offensive inflation, of course. But then, Safeco’s tougher than the Dome was.
#121: What you said, Steve. I like Delgado’s skillset, though I don’t like his knees, age, or desired contract length and size. And Delgado’s skillset is significantly and fundamentally superior to Sexson’s. Sexson just isn’t that great. Even the healthy Sexson isn’t worth 12, he’s not worth 10, and he’s not actually amazingly better than Ibanez.