What’s Wrong With Miguel Olivo?
I started working on this post on Friday, and obviously, it would have been a lot more timely before Olivo went 2 for 3 with a walk, a double, and 3 RBIs. But, despite the nice afternoon (and yes, the numbers below include his performance from Sunday), it’s still a relevant topic, and something I hope you find interesting.
When the Mariners traded Freddy Garcia to Chicago last summer, they acquired three players, including Miguel Olivo, who was playing regularly at catcher for the White Sox at the time. In 141 at-bats for the Pale Hose, Olivo had managed a .270/.316/.496 line. The OBP is a bit low, but the power is valuable, and his .269 EqA, if sustained over the full season, would have ranked him as the 10th most valuable catcher with the bat in major league baseball. Despite a poor rookie season in 2003, his minor league totals backed up the hypothesis that Olivo really could hit. In 1595 at-bats before reaching the majors, he totaled a .285/.355/.462 line, including hitting .306/.381/.479 in Birmingham during his last stint in the minors.
Since the trade, Olivo has hit .195/.240/.356 in 205 at-bats. In his last 105 at-bats dating back to the start of last September, he’s hitting .133/.172/.200 with 5 walks and 37 strikeouts. Pitchers, as a whole, hit .143/.177/.184 last year. Since being acquired from the White Sox, Miguel Olivo’s offensive production has been equal to that of the average hitting pitcher.
Obviously, something is amiss, as this is no longer just a slump. This is so far below any reasonable expectation of his performance that there’s clearly a problem. But what is it? What’s wrong with Miguel Olivo?
While we obviously are big fans of statistical analysis, these are the kinds of “why?” questions that statistics don’t often provide a great answer for. The numbers confirm that, yes, this is a pretty nasty funk, but they don’t really provide any insights into what the problem is. He’s not walking enough. He’s striking out too much. He’s just making a lot of outs. Well, yea. But why?.
So, I called in a few favors from a couple of friends of mine who have been scouting baseball talent for a long time. Both of these guys saw Olivo in Chicago in 2003 and 2004 and have seen him in Seattle since the trade. They have a frame of reference for both Good Olivo and Abysmal Olivo, and they have the expertise necessary to correctly break down a major league player’s technique. Now, neither of these scouts work for the M’s, so its not in their organization’s best interest for Olivo to start hitting again, so some of the proprietary stuff that they’ve filed in their scouting reports for their club, I’m not allowed to publish. But, they were both very gracious with a majority of their thoughts, and they were willing to share some great insights on the issue.
Below are some excerpts from two seperate conversations I had, edited to read smoothly. While its going to read like a transcript of three guys sitting together talking, the two conversations took place separately, but I asked them both basically the same questions, so I’ve put their answers together. Off we go.
Dave: Well, let’s start off with a little background. Can Miguel Olivo hit major league pitching?
Scout A: Yea, I think so. He’s an aggressive hitter–you’d call him a hack, I think–but he’s got bat speed, and there’s juice in his swing. He can catch up with major league fastballs and turn on pitches on the inner half. With his catch-and-throw skills, you don’t need him to hit like Piazza, but I think he’s an asset with the bat, too.
Scout B: Definitely. He was hitting really well for Chicago last spring. He killed (our lefties). Anything inside that doesn’t jam him, he can pull with ease. Really quick hands. Physically, you have to like the package he brings to the plate. He’s got 60 power (on a 20-80 where 50 is league average), which is rare for a catcher. He’s always taken a while to adjust to new places, but the key is he always has. There’s offensive talent in that kid.
Dave: Okay, so he can hit. So why has he been so awful since the trade?
Scout A: I was talking to (a White Sox official) and they said the kid cried when they told him he’d been traded. It sounds like he took it more as “the White Sox don’t want me”. Getting traded from Oakland for a triple-a middle reliever (Chad Bradford) earlier in his career, it sounds like he saw this as another organization giving up on him. Mentally, I think he decided that he was doing something wrong, since he kept getting traded. So he started changing things that weren’t broken.
Scout B: Look at his career. This isn’t the first time he’s gone somewhere new and forgotten how to hit. It seemed like everytime Oakland promoted him up a level, he’d leave his bat behind and have to repeat the league. He was a pretty easy out his rookie year in Chicago, too. For whatever reason, he’s not a quick adapter. He always needs a couple hundred at-bats to learn how to hit in a new city.
Dave: From my point of view, it seems like Olivo is trying to pull every pitch on every swing, making him easy to pitch on the outside half of the plate. Has he always been like this?
Scout A: He’s always been a pull-guy, but never like right now. He’s throwing his arms out and aiming his head towards the foul pole. We tell our guys to throw him nothing but breaking balls away, because with the way he’s trying to hit everything past the third baseman, there’s no way he’s going to reach that pitch.
Scout B He did a nice job of going to right field on fastballs away last year with Chicago. He knows how, but right now, it seems like he’s not trying. He’s not making any adjustments. We threw him the same pitch in the same count four times in a row, and he swung and missed all four times. He definitely is too pull-conscious right now.
Dave: Okay, so if you’re Don Baylor, how do you fix him?
Scout A: Throw him a thousand curveballs a day. He has to learn how to recognize offspeed pitches. He doesn’t have to hit them. He just has to learn to see that its a curve ball and not swing. Nobody in this league throws him a curve for a strike, because the book is out. He’ll chase the hook in the dirt, so there’s no reason to risk leaving one up for him to drive. Until he stops swinging at that pitch at his toes, he’s an automatic out.
Scout B: Make him go the other way. Do whatever it takes to make sure he understands that he can’t pull every pitch, especially soft stuff. He has to hit the ball to right field. As long as he’s trying to rip every pitch down the line, he’s an out. And have patience. He’s always come around after a few hundred at-bats. Don’t give up on the kid. He’ll come around.
They both said pretty much the same things. The book on him is to pitch him away with breaking balls and change-ups and let him get himself out. He’s too impatient to walk right now, so there’s no reason to throw him anything on the inner half. Just pound him away with offspeed stuff and take the easy out. This lines up with what I’ve seen, and what I felt, but it was good to know that both think that this is something he can break out of.
After we were done talking, I decided to look at some hitting charts for Olivo to see if the objective evidence backed up the scouting observations that Olivo has become more pull-conscious since the trade. The results are amazing. Since the hitting charts aren’t broken out by pre-trade/post-trade but are broken out by ballpark, I used U.S. Cellular Field as a proxy for his 2004 in Chicago and Safeco Field as a proxy for his time with Seattle.
Olivo with White Sox:
Singles:: Left-6, Center-2, Right-3
Doubles/Triples: Left-2, Center-4, Right-1
Home Runs: Left-4, Center-0, Right-0
Fly Outs: Left-6, Center-7, Right-8
Olivo with Mariners:
Singles:: Left-7, Center-3, Right-1
Doubles/Triples: Left-4, Center-2, Right-0
Home Runs: Left-4, Center-0, Right-0
Fly Outs: Left-7, Center-7, Right-4
The graphical hitting chart makes the case even better than the numerical breakdown above. In Chicago, Olivo was a pull hitter, but not a dominant one. His extra base hits were in the right-center field alley, and he had a majority of balls in the air to right field. Since the trade, however, he’s basically cut the field in half, hitting almost solely to left field. The hitting chart is in complete agreement with the scouts take: since the trade, Olivo has been far too pull-conscious, making him an easy out by exploiting the outside half of the plate.
Is this fixable? Two pro scouts think so. His minor league numbers and his performance in Chicago suggest that there is offensive talent there, somewhere. He just has to make some adjustments. He can’t continue to just hope the funk miraculously ends. This is going to take some proactive work on the part of Miguel Olivo. He has to make strides in hitting to right field, recognizing and laying off the breaking ball, and adjusting to what pitchers are throwing him.
For the M’s sake, lets hope he can.
Comments
51 Responses to “What’s Wrong With Miguel Olivo?”
Dave, this is a wonderful piece of research … and, if I may, investigative reporting. Please do your best to slip this to your contacts within the Mariner organization and transcend the usual analyst/commentator’s role. The team needs this information … and it says something about the team that it’s not safe for us to assume the Mariners already have it.
This is why I read blogs, and this one in particular. Thank you.
Great stuff, Dave.
Nice work. I think the most amazing part is your point that he is literally hitting like a pitcher. A few of our pitchers would probably be good PH candidates for Olivo right now. So…what does Baylor know and what is he doing about it (rhetorical question)?
Can we send him to Tacoma until he works his way out of it? What are his options? I realize that Wilson isn’t exactly hitting well either.
Fantastic. Q: Is there anyway Don Baylor doesn’t already know all this? I mean, is the organization’s tact really to just sit on their hands and wait for Miguel to turn it around?
“Dave, this is a wonderful piece of research … and, if I may, investigative reporting. Please do your best to slip this to your contacts within the Mariner organization and transcend the usual analyst/commentator’s role. The team needs this information … and it says something about the team that it’s not safe for us to assume the Mariners already have it.”
Oh for crying out loud. You think a major league organization with professional scouts of their own doesn’t know this? On a pre-game interview with Don Baylor, the questions were posed directly about what the team is doing wrong offensively. When the question came to Miguel Olivo, who has had the most miserable start of anybody, Baylor said the exact same things that the scouts in the interview said. Olivo himself, after the game, said it too; that he was trying to pull too much and he was trying to make adjustments to hit to the opposite field. These people know this. They’re paid to.
But analyzing the problem and pointing out what to do about it and actually fixing it are different things. Olivo needs to be the one to make the changes, and if tonight’s game is any indication, it seems he has.
I haven’t really seen Mo at all this year, but I can at least comment on what I saw when he was in Chicago. Miguel’s first year in Chicago sounds much like he you’re describing now. The book was out. Curve in the dirt = automatic out. I even started calling him Pedro Cerrano. Last season though, after about a week or two of futility, it was like a switch was flipped. I assume that Greg Walker, Chicago’s hitting coach, was “throwing him 1000 breaking balls a day,” though I can’t say for sure what it was. It didn’t really last though…. I would say that he looked really comfortable at the plate for only about 6 weeks (mid April to end of May), then he returned to his hacking self.
Coincidentally, from today’s PI:
Mariners hitting coach Don Baylor said before the game that he has been stressing to Olivo not to be so pull-conscious.
“He’s forgotten two-thirds of the field, which is the other way,” Baylor said.
Of the bases-loaded double, Mariners manager Mike Hargrove said, “The thing is, Miguel stayed in the middle of the field, and kept a short stroke. When he does that  this guy’s strong. The ball just jumps off his bat.”
Dave,
Great job, interesting read. What are your thoughts on Olivo’s defense up to now? Also, what do you think about Reed’s defense in CF?
Dave,
You dont get stuff like this just anywhere. Thats why I keep coming back. Great job. No, really, I’m greatful and VERY impressed.
Good work. I always appreciate stuff like this. Keep it coming.
I’ve become confident in the fact that he can’t hit a breaking ball from a righty for solid contact.
Really great and insightful piece.
I enjoyed it a lot and it made me think that Olivo can work his way out of this if he puts in the same time that he evidently did in the offseason to improve his game behind the plate.
So, to echo what #9, Econ guy, asked, what do you think of his defense? From what I’ve seen and heard the hard work this offseason paid off.
I hope he can apply some of that dedication and focus to his bat now.
Also, did anybody catch what type of pitches that Miggy did hit yesterday? I believe he roped that bases-loaded double off of a fastball, but I don’t remember exactly. It was on the outer-half, I recall…
Great stuff, Senor Cameron. Thank you for putting the time in to make this happen for us. After reading this, I’m more optimistic about Miggy than I’ve been in a long time.
I agree with post #7 as well. I saw a lot of Olivo last year on the South Side and Dave’s analysis is totally correct. He was a pull hitter who couldn’t hit a breaking ball. Perhaps the book got out on him too late for Seattle. I do think there’s still time for him to get it together. He’s still got a cannon going to second base and great speed for a catcher … there’s still time to fix his approach at the plate.
I asked this very same question (What’s wrong with Olivo?) over the weekend with a fellow fan. Very timely and interesting.
Little side question though, why is it whenever a scout is used as a source in just about any article I’ve seen they are quoted anonymously. I’ve read things where it might make sense but sometime I wonder why they cannot be quoted by name.
By the way, I’m sure the “Miggy” nickname has it’s origins in the broadcast booth, but can’t we do better than that?
Posts of this quality are infrequent and very difficult to find. This is superior to anything I have read in a long time. Thank you for going the extra mile and please, please, for those of us who trying to feed our brain by scrubbing through piles of crap to find stimulating information, keep it up.
On an interesting side note, if you have been suffering from the pattern of pulling the ball, it can be difficult to go the other way. Getting the hands in the right place can be a bit tricky. You feel like nothing gets off the bat with power. It takes time and a very concentrated effort to build out of the pull habits to use the entire field. Remember, you are not just practicing to make perfect, you have to take your practice into live situations where there is very little forgiveness for failure. He will need to not only practice offspeed and breaking pitches religiously, he will need to effectively transfer what he is able to develop into the reaction time required in the MLB batter’s box.
Do we know if Olivo was pressing to pull hit during the other “adapting” phases in his career or was it something else?
“I’ve become confident in the fact that he can’t hit a breaking ball from a righty for solid contact. ”
That could very well be the case.
The question then becomes….will he develop enough as a hitter to be able to foul off those pitches until he CAN get a pitch he can put good wood on…..
#6 and others  First off, I didn’t see any comments Don Baylor had made regarding Miguel Olivo’s pull tendencies before I made my post … and furthermore, if that had been an issue before yesterday’s game, it sure didn’t show. A hitting coach needs to COACH. It takes a little more than saying, “Miguel knows what he needs to do, so now he just needs to do it.” Dave’s scout friend is right: You stay late and work with the player on hitting those troublesome pitches until something clicks in the dead space between his head and his hands and he makes the adjustment.
And, given the Mariners’ frankly bizarre history in player development, it’s not at all reasonable to assume the Mariners knew what was wrong with Miguel Olivo. They sure as hell chose to be mystified by Ben Davis, after all (granted, that was under different management, but then again, one of baseball’s greatest hitters of all time was the batting coach last year).
Yet Another Admiration Post: Thank you for this piece. Love the stats, love the scouts. Observation and analysis in delicious harmony.
Not to mention a little gritty MLB color…”He’ll chase the hook in the dirt everytime.”
The real questions here are 1. is it realistically fixable, and 2. if so, will they fix it?
As for 1, I don’t think so, you don’t just learn to hit the curve at the major league level, but hopefully he can learn to lay off it. I don’t think his defensive skills make up for his atrocious hitting either. He’s got a cannon for an arm, but still doesn’t block the plate all that well.
Now if it is fixable, do you guys really think the Mariners are going to fix it, or will they just keep re-signing Wilson. I honestly think the latter is more likely.
#20– Jim Thomsen said:”A hitting coach needs to COACH. It takes a little more than saying, “Miguel knows what he needs to do, so now he just needs to do it.†Dave’s scout friend is right: You stay late and work with the player on hitting those troublesome pitches until something clicks in the dead space between his head and his hands and he makes the adjustment.”
apparently he is and they are, since spring training: “Olivo works out before and after each spring game with Hansen on defense. And now, he and hitting coach Don Baylor are finding extra time for batting practice. “I told him I’d work with him every morning in the cage at 7:30 a.m., and every morning he’s there at 7:20 a.m.,” Baylor said. “You have to love his passion for the game. He wants to be better, he’s willing to work. “I told him bad habits take 30 days to get rid of. We’re about on Day 18. Some days he looks better. Some days . . .” Baylor laughed.
—–
“And, given the Mariners’ frankly bizarre history in player development, it’s not at all reasonable to assume the Mariners knew what was wrong with Miguel Olivo. They sure as hell chose to be mystified by Ben Davis, after all”
as were the Padres, and the White Sox…
I was interested by Olivo’s comment when asked about Ozzie Guillen going off on all his former (and current) players– he said that for him, the difference between Chicago & Seattle was that in Seattle they saw what they didn’t like, they told him, and then they set about fixing it.
On #22:
1. Is it realistically fixable? Yes, it is, if he’s willing to do the work and his head’s on straight. The question is how many pitches will he have to see before he stops pulling the ball. I think this is one of those cases where a Japanese regimen may be beneficial. Make him face 100 balls in the cage a day. Fine him every time he tries to pull the ball in the cage. Ditto breaking balls. If he does the work, eventually things will click and he’ll start tearing the cover off the ball. Then the book on him will be wrong, and he’ll make them pay. But, again, it’s a question of whether he wants to do the work, and whether he refuses to accept the current situation as his destiny.
2. Will they fix it? Well, it sounds like Baylor sees the problem, but admitting the problem and fixing the problem are distinctly different things. The solution is to give him more work. Will they give it to him? The amount of time a player has in the cage and coaches have available is limited. Would he be taking away from whatever work another player needs?
Dave wrote a great piece outlining Olivo’s current problems and possible solutions. Hopefully, someone will listen to it — and the scuttlebutt in the scouting corps — and get the bug in Olivo’s ear to WANT to fix it. He has the talent. I mean, we’re not trying to get Suckquist to turn into a power-hitting machine.
Dave,
This is great stuff. I particularly like how you combined statistical analysis with scouting insights. Although many of us come here to read statistical analysis, its very refreshing to put the two sides together. Nice work.
Too, I think folks should remember that coaching isn’t a science (and isn’t susceptible to statistical approaches and whatnot); it is very much an art form where slightly different approaches by different people (or even the same person) can lead to wildly varying results.
If Sunday was a fluke and he continues to struggle I would support sending him to Tacoma and having him DH there so he can concentrate entirely on his hitting for 2-3 weeks. I am encouraged to read that he’s working hard on this, but working on it could equal pressing. Tacoma would be a lower pressure environment to work on a new approach.
I have followed the Mariners since 88′, and why is it that we continually are unsuccessful at producing the catcher position. I understand that catchers take longer to develope, but through the years it is something that the system hasn’t been able to accomplish. I am sorry but Wilson in his best season would never be on my wish list. I did a quick search through my baseball almanac, and here are all our stellar catchers from 88′ to date.
Bradley, McGuire, Valle, Sinatro, Howard, Parrish, Haselman, Heffernan, Sasser, Willard, Widger, Kreuter, Marzano, Wilkins, Oliver, Chavez, Lampkin, Machado, Borders, Wilson, Davis, Olivo, and Rivera. None of these names jump out at you other than Wilson and Valle being with the team in terms of longevity.
Will Olivo hit? Will Wilson finally retire? Do we have anyone in the system that we consider a force?
Mustard, How do we compare to the rest of the league? I’m betting we’re not that far below average.
And don’t you blaspheme on Dave Valle.
The M’s produced a quality catcher all right. They just chose to give him away – Jason Varitek. How would the offense look right now with Varitek and Guillen instead of Olivo and Valdez?
I’ll never get over the Lowe/Varitek for Slocumb deal, no matter how much I drink to forget.
#27 – I disagree. We know that his makeup is such that if we sent him to AAA he wouldn’t hit because he’d think the club is giving up on him, and he doesn’t adjust well to level changes. Tacoma may be lower pressure, but he’d be putting just as much pressure on himself trying to get hitting and back to the big club. And what coaching is he going to get in AAA he can’t get with the big club?
Also, go look at the Big Board. There are only three catchers on the 40-man: Wilson, Olivo, and Rivera. (OK, Ibanez if everyone else comes down with the the Black Plague.) Do you think Rivera is ready to make the BIG jump, just for a cup of coffee? I don’t think so. Last catcher I can remember going from AA straight to the majors was Pudge Rodriguez, but he was more than ready.
You also have Wiki Gonzalez. Someone was complaining that Olivo doesn’t block the plate, but Wiki just about waves the runner in, he’s so lazy.
The rest of the catchers are minor-league filler or years from being ready for the majors.
So, Olivo stays up and keeps hitting the cages. I don’t think that hit was a fluke, BTW. I was at the game; it was a nice, solid shot that looked like he knew what he was doing.
“I’ll never get over the Lowe/Varitek for Slocumb deal, no matter how much I drink to forget.”
Here’s a good idea: Quit looking at everything in hindsight.
If you don’t lament the Slocumb deal you don’t know baseball.
Also, we could have had Alfonso Soriano for Jose Paniagua, but Pinella didn’t want to let him go.
What are you going to do?
Man. How different would this team be with RJ, A-rod, Guillen playing third, Beltre Dh’ing, an outfield of Cameron, Ichiro, and Reed. Oh, Garcia starting too. Nice.
“Here’s a good idea: Quit looking at everything in hindsight.”
Those who don’t remember history are doomed to repeat it. Just like any other successful organization, in sports or otherwise, the M’s must remember and learn from their past mistakes.
.32 – I see you’re still living up to your name.
How would you have RJ and Guillen? Garcia and Reed? And how would you afford Beltre if you had to pay RJ and A-Rod’s big contracts as well?
You can’t have it all.
There should be no Beltre DHing talk under even the most fantastical speculations. No way would Beltre agree to DH and I feel pretty sure he’s a better defender than Guillen at 3rd anyway. No, if A-Rod was still on this team there’s no way Beltre would be on it. Of course, A-Rod’s probably the better player but I’ll take Beltre. Plus didn’t we get Garcia in the RJ trade? Not the mention the Reed/Garcia issue. So, not to nitpick, well, obviously I’m nitpicking…so anyway, that’s not a possible scenario.
Remember: at the time of the Slocumb deal, Varitek’s future didn’t look all that bright; when we sent him off to Boston, I thought he was bidding fair to be another in the Marc Newfield tradition of first-round underachievers. How he got from hitting .244/.321/.421 in AAA at age 25 to posting a major-league line of .271/.347/.451 from age 26 to age 32, I’m not sure, but I’m equally unsure that it would have happened had he stayed with the M’s.
In reply to Change post #29, I am willing to bet you are right, but I am not a fan of the rest of the league, but the Mariners. It’s like my buddy commented to me the other night. “The Mariners catching situation is like my fantasy team, i pick a catcher last just to fill the spot.”
To me, it seems that is what happens every year….sorry to dis’ on Valle.
The point is there aren’t that many good catchers around, and I don’t think they’ve done all that bad over the long haul in the catching department. And they’ve certainly tried hard to develop catchers. They drafted Varitek in the 1st round in 94 and Christianson in the 1st round in 99, and Wilson was a #1 pick by the Reds in 1990.
Although Christianson hasn’t panned out, he was rated the 4th best position player and 7th best prospect in that draft by Baseball America.
Although he’s nearing the end of the line, Wilson has actually had a pretty good career, certainly better than the average catcher. So I don’t think catcher has been the black hole you think it’s been for the M’s. Not like 3rd base or left field have been.
it’s a position that no one organization has done well by– when you think of the handful of premiere catchers, they’ve come from all kinds of teams and organizations… hiting aside, ask Varitek & he’ll tell you he learned everything from Roger Hansen in the minors
Excellent USSM post. Thank you.
Hey, maybe we could somehow make a deal with the Twins. They seem to be swimming in excess catchers…
(No, seriously, great post. Makes me both depressed and hopeful about Olivo.)
“If you don’t lament the Slocumb deal you don’t know baseball.”
I don’t armchair it either. Minor league prospects for what was thought to be at the time the closer the M’s desperately needed. Only hindsight is what makes that deal bad. At the time it wasn’t necessarily a bad thing.
“Also, we could have had Alfonso Soriano for Jose Paniagua, but Pinella didn’t want to let him go.”
If you want to lament the many players we could have had at one point or another, then go ahead. I don’t dwell on it.
“Those who don’t remember history are doomed to repeat it. Just like any other successful organization, in sports or otherwise, the M’s must remember and learn from their past mistakes.”
It wasn’t a mistake at the time. It became a mistake later. That’s my point. If you’re skittish on making deals because of one or two past failures, you’ll never do anything. Reed and Olivo could both die tomorrow, and the Garcia trade will look bad as a result. The Randy Johnson deal, in hindsight, is looking pretty bleak. Garcia was a great addition, but Halama did nothing for us and has done nothing, and Guillen had done nothing for us but has done something for someone else. Looking at the future tradeoffs for them, Garcia for Reed / Olivo / Morse is looking good now, but Guillen for Ramon Santiago is a work in progress.
If you must look back at trades and claim that because of them we might make other bad trades in the future, well you’re right. But we’d make bad trades in the future regardless of whether we’d made them before and learned something or nothing from it. Trades are a part of baseball. Trades that don’t work are a part of baseball. We have to deal with it and move on, not linger over it just because Boston fans like to remind us that they sucker punched us.
Those same Boston fans seem to forget we sucker punched them back for some no name fool named Jamie Moyer. Who’d we give up for him again?
Re: 36.
Nice troll.
Many have said before, but I’ll say again – this is a great post and this are the kinda posts which makes this site great. Thanks a lot Dave. Very much appreciated.
No, it wasn’t a troll. It was more of a comment on what I perceived as your misunderstanding of the word “hindsight”. For you to say that the deal looks worse in hindsight just isn’t accurate. Slocumb had a 5.79 ERA at the time of the trade and was widely believed to be destined for a DFA. That deal was unbelievably stupid at the time, and even more stupid in hindsight.
Guillen for Santiago is a work in progress? Now who’s trolling? Guillen is, once again, in the top ten in the league in RCAA and Santiago is yet another no-hit, dime-a-dozen minor league SS, at a position where the team currently has a glaring weakness. Are you really implying that this deal may turn out in favor of the M’s?
#47–petec said:”That deal was unbelievably stupid at the time, and even more stupid in hindsight.”
what is more frustrating for fans, I think, is that they didn’t have to give up both players– from the Times back in ’99:
“This is one trade Woodward apparently made on his own. According to story out of Boston and confirmed by a Mariner official, the original discussions had been for either Varitek OR Lowe. But when Woodward called Boston GM Dan Duquette, he agreed to part with both. While Slocumb helped in 1997 before falling apart in 1998, the two young players have helped Boston toward the postseason this season and promise to do so for years to come. In the bigger deals, there was always a feeling Woodward could have gotten more had he worked harder, or given less. Or, with more foresight and preparation, or willingness to make tougher choices, perhaps not wound up in a payroll bind that made it necessary to part with the likes of Tino Martinez, Omar Vizquel and Mike Jackson.”
Thanks for the background work on Olivo, Dave the C., it puts a lot in perspective.
I was glad when the Ms picked up Olivo: cannon arm, durable, passion for the game, like the scouts said very quick hands, plus power seldom seen from catchers, murders fastballs. I thought last year that Miguel definitely took the trade to come here hard, like a demotion or a write off by Chi. I thought that was a big factor in his defensive collapse at the end of the year, for example, and _that_ part of his game has come around quite well. What I wasn’t aware of is that Olivo has been a chronic slow adapter to new environments; that’s what I take away from the scouts discussion. And what Miguel is doing wrong at the plate is fundamentally solvable, so altogether this summary gives me hope.
I defnitely get the feeling that his teammates are pulling for him, too, working to pump up his confidence and emphasize that he’s wanted here. Moyer gave Olivo some nice comments after Sunday’s game, and then _somebody_ made sure that Olivo got the post-game radio interview after the win today (Tuesday) in Texas. His teammates want him here it would appear, and that bodes well for Miguel eventually relaxing and getting into a better groove.
. . . How does one say ‘Big Mike’ in Spanish? I’ve forgotten.
His stride is late. His front foot is down after the release of ball by the pitcher which makes it difficult to pick up the pitch because his head and eyes are moving. Symptoms of this are his front shoulder opening up and his whole swing plane being oriented towards left…his hands leak as well…
Even though this comment is late since Miguel has been traded to the Padres, I will still give it. He is pressing, trying to get his numbers up so he can sign a big contract. If you watch how he has been batting, he is not missing it by that much. He is fouling everything off straight back. He needs to go back to PLAYING the game he loves, and not worry about the money. He’s already making more than he was in the minors.