Borders! Borders! Borders!

DMZ · May 18, 2005 at 1:22 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

From Hickey, in the PI notebook today:

The Mariners are making a bid to acquire Borders, 42. If they decide they want the former Mariner (2001-04), the expectation is that they can have him. Sources in the Brewers’ front office say they will not block Borders’ return to the major leagues.

Even better:

Borders, because of an injury-free history and his knowledge of the Mariners’ pitching staff, is considered the heavy favorite.

I… I don’t even know where to start here.


121 Responses to “Borders! Borders! Borders!”

  1. msb on May 18th, 2005 5:38 pm

    #99– are both Molinas off the DL at the moment?

  2. Jon Wells on May 18th, 2005 5:38 pm

    #95 – Dan Wilson was actually starting to look real good right about the time he got hurt (Olivo was just starting to struggle defensively at that point)… At this point, Santiago or Shoppach would look really nice.

    It wasn’t a scoring decision — if a runner is trying to steal he gets the stolen base even if the catcher doesn’t catch the ball. They call a passed ball when the runner advances when he wasn’t trying to steal…

  3. Jim Osmer on May 18th, 2005 5:43 pm

    According to CNN/SI, looks like both Molinas and Josh Paul are active.
    What about Charles Johnson with TB? He is not happy there. We could send some bad contracts that way (Spiezio, etc.) to even out the money. Have his skills faded out that badly?

  4. Jon Wells on May 18th, 2005 5:48 pm

    #102 There is no money to even out on the Charles Johnson contract. The Red Sox were on the hook for the $9 million — all the D-Rays have to pay is the major league minimum, which is now $316,000…

  5. julio con carne mateo on May 18th, 2005 5:48 pm

    Jon, we agree on this. Except in the case you described, WP/PB (like errors) are the judgement of the (usually biased) official scorer.

    On that subject, baserunning errors should be included in the records along with defensive errors. Add to that, throwing to the wrong base. Then there is the issues of team errors (IE a ball drops in among 3 players.) This type of error is not included in team errors.

  6. Jeremy on May 18th, 2005 5:49 pm

    Rivera hit .235/.300/.346 last year — in A-ball.

  7. paul mocker on May 18th, 2005 5:51 pm

    This is BTF’s transaction oracle from May 14:

    “Diamondbacks – Signed Stinnett
    Arizona Diamondbacks – Signed C Kelly Stinnett to a minor-league contract; released C Craig Ansman.

    Oracle Says:

    Terrible. Craig Ansman is old to be a prospect, but there’s no reason he can’t be a backup catcher in the majors, especially on those teams with 3 catchers for no particular reason as he can hit. What fabulous prospect are the Diamondbacks making room for? Kelly Stinnett, an ancient catcher who has been unemployed for a month and a half and the terrific Juan Brito. A team with poor catching depth could do a lot worse than use Ansman as an organizational player.”

    Anybody know about Ansman?

  8. paul mocker on May 18th, 2005 5:58 pm

    Long day. Is the title a Brady Bunch reference?

  9. Dave on May 18th, 2005 6:08 pm


    Essentially, every point you make, regardless of topic comes back to one thing: “You’re not here, Dave. I’m at the stadium all the time.” Whether its your frustration with Olivo, Randy Winn, whatever, the point is always the same.

    I’m sorry, but that doesn’t validate your opinions. If you want to explain why your emotional frustration should be a valid reason for dumping Miguel Olivo, go right ahead. But “I’m in Seattle!” isn’t a reason.

  10. msb on May 18th, 2005 6:11 pm

    re: Shoppach; if Theo was willing to let him go, what would he want? or, better, what would the Mariners have that they would want?

  11. Ralph Malph on May 18th, 2005 6:21 pm

    Dan Wilson was starting to look real good about the time he got hurt…this sounds like something I’ve heard guys say in a bar around closing time.

    Rivera struggled badly with the bat in A-ball last year. This year in 99 at bats in AA he was batting .273/308/394, with 4 BB and 18 K. In 3 years in the minors he has a slugging average of 369. There is no reason to think he is remotely ready at age 21 for major league pitching. He needs to be playing in the minors.

    Olivo is still the likeliest starting catcher in the system. He’s only 26 for goodness sake. It would be silly to give up on him.

    Charles Johnson has had a sore throwing shoulder this year. He is 33 years old. He has missed games this year because of undisclosed “personal issues”. Nuff said I think.

  12. Jim Osmer on May 18th, 2005 6:25 pm

    Would likely take Everyday Eddie to get Shoppach since they seem to be unhappy with their bullpen.
    Although they kind of owe us for that whole Varitek/Lowe trade.

  13. DMZ on May 18th, 2005 6:26 pm

    Like Moyer-Bragg? Because that worked out pretty well for us.

  14. Avery on May 18th, 2005 6:28 pm

    107 – Ansman was a PCL all-star last year. He would be an upgrade over anything we have plus he’s only like 26 or 27.

  15. msb on May 18th, 2005 6:41 pm

    #114– offensively, but isn’t his defense suspect? wasn’t that the reason he’d been passed by several other catchers in the D-backs system?

  16. Avery on May 18th, 2005 6:50 pm

    115 – Defense? He’s replacing Wiki on the roster so that shouldn’t be a problem. The smart move is to acquire free talent that might actually have a future. Borders has none. Ansman may suck as much as Olivo but he’s free and he’s a better pickup than Borders.

  17. Jon Wells on May 18th, 2005 7:40 pm


    Fair enough. But for you to think tbat your opinion is better than those of us who actually see the team on a nightly basis, is a little, I’m looking for a word to describe it — uh, lemme get back to you later (would arrogrant be too strong a word??).

    If you just go by the statistics and you don’t actually see the team play it’s really hard to get an idea how badly Miguel Olivo is playing this year. At the same time if you don’t see the games you might also claim that Randy Winn is among the best defensive left fielders in the league…

  18. Dave on May 18th, 2005 7:50 pm


    I haven’t offered an opinion on Olivo’s defense. To claim that my opinion is arrogant, when I haven’t offered one, is jumping the gun, don’t you think? I simply tried to provide perspective to a comment that was clearly emotional reaction masquerading as some kind of rational analysis. Miguel Olivo has frustrated the crap out of you, and you want him to go away. That’s fine, but don’t try to pass that feeling off as “he needs to go to Tacoma to improve” without expecting to get called on it. Teams don’t make irrational reactions to feelings for a reason; they’re bad ideas. If you want to make a legitimate claim that sending Olvio to Tacoma might actually have some positive outcome on the team, go right ahead, and I might even agree with you. But if you just want to have the guy go away because he annoys you, well, don’t be surprised if I don’t say “gee, what a swell idea”.

    If you just go by the statistics and you don’t actually see the team play it’s really hard to get an idea how badly Miguel Olivo is playing this year.

    I wrote an entire post titled “What’s Wrong With Miguel Olivo”. I’m pretty sure I’m aware of how badly he’s playing.

    At the same time if you don’t see the games you might also claim that Randy Winn is among the best defensive left fielders in the league…

    Have you ever considered that you might be wrong, that there’s a mountain of evidence that says that Winn’s range in left field is a huge advantage relative to the oafs that usually roam out there, and that he gets to so many extra balls that other left fielders that wouldn’t? Or are you simply content to watch him throw like a girl and say “he sucks”.

    I’m sorry if it offends you that I don’t take your word for it, Jon. But you’re going to have to deal with it, because I really could care less that you see the team play in person and I don’t.

  19. Paul Molitor Cocktail on May 18th, 2005 8:44 pm

    How about Yogi Berra? He’s still got it. Plus he knows how to win.

  20. vj on May 19th, 2005 2:39 am

    FWIW, it is fitting that Olivo played well last night after this discussion.

  21. rich on May 19th, 2005 7:34 am

    why do americans say “in and of itself”? Why not just “in itself”? What does the “of” bit add? We don’t use that in England, I don’t think.

    Just wondering.