Game 56, Mariners at Marlins
DMZ · June 7, 2005 at 3:29 pm · Filed Under Game Threads
RHP Ryan Franklin v RHP Brian “Scuffy” Moehler.
No matter which way Hargrove goes with the lineup tonight (sitting Ibanez or Winn or someone else) it seems certain that during this roadtrip to NL parks we’ll likely see both sit at least once, leaving the consecutive game demolition derby to Ichiro! (who rocks) and Boone (who does not).
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154 Responses to “Game 56, Mariners at Marlins”
Reed is sitting.
Apparently, like Kazu, Barmes is also engaged in some sort of adulterous relationship.
I sent a note suggesting very much the same thing to Will Carroll today.
Um, what are you talking about?
Keys to the game for Ryan Franklin (predicted):
Keep the ball down
Avoid the big inning
Get run support
Fairly’s Facts in Full EFFect: Don’t forget the M’s just need to think about scoring 4 runs to win the game.
What about?
Get ahead in the count
Wish the M’s would draft Jenny Finch.That would put some butts in seats.
After seeing Chris Bensen’s wife on sports show last night, M’s should trade for Bensen IMO.
If we are going for sex appeal to put butts in the seats, we should sign some beach volleyball pros!
Chris Bensen is one hell of a typo.
It’s not a typo if the person doesn’t know how to spell it, then it’s just wrong.
Derek – Barmes broke his collarbone carrying his groceries into his apartment. I’ll dig up the article, hang on….
How does that make it adulterous? Was Jenny Finch in his apartment?
Here ’tis:
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_2786119
“He never knew good food could be so bad for his health. A late-night grocery run likely ended Barmes’ season when he tripped walking up stairs, snapping his left collarbone Sunday. The shortstop will undergo surgery today to have a plate inserted, halting arguably the best year ever by a Rockies rookie.”
It looks as though it is “dressdown Tuesday” for Niehaus and the gang. Must be a Miami thing.
The Marlins radio guy is OK, but he sounds sooo smarmy and caffeinated. Sounds like he wants to sell you a car, or insurance. Someone needs to remind him that COFFEE IS FOR CLOSERS.
Is Brian Moehler the same pitcher who was caught scuffing the ball years ago?
and were off!
You see, if the M’s can score four runs, they’ll be in pretty good shape, unless they allow five…
Go Randy Go!
Oakland has 1 out in the top of the first. No score yet.
doh!
Go break your bat, Richie…
Keep the ball DOWN Ryan, Geesh!
17 – I’d guess yes, that’s why Derek refers to him as “Scuffy”.
Josh Phelps was DFA’d by the Devil Rays today. Anyone think he might be an upgrade over our current bench options? His 2005 salary was $800,000, so any team that claims him will be on the hook for about $500,000. Not bad for a guy who’s .276 EQA would tie him for fourth on the Mariners.
FWIW, I definitely endorse the Ms taking a waiver wire flyer on Phelps.
Why would yyou bat LoDuca third in a line up with Cabrera and Delgado?
I like Josh Phelps
Should I trade Bartolo Colon for Sexson in my Yahoo fantasy league? I need RBI. I could offer Colon for Berkman but I don’t think he’ll have as many RBI opportunities as Sexson.
Do it, Colon is overrated.
Sign Phelps, DFA Spezio and Dobbs. No, wait — cut them outright. They have nothing to offer us.
Sunk costs and all that.
Josh Phelps – former BP cover boy.
BOONIE!
When you hear “Hard ground ball past the diving…” and Bret Boone in the same sentence, it usually means the M’s are in the field.
Nice work Boone
Thanks to everybody who yesterday answered my question about Reed vs. Winn on the bench. As you might have guessed, I was looking for fantasy-team advice. I decided to sit Reed this morning, which goes to show that I’m either a) able to see the future or b) able to see that Winn’s probably going to hit better than Reed, especially if Reed’s on the bench and doesn’t get to hit. Also, interleague is stupid and I think I prefer the pre-wildcard league structure, but I’m not sure yet.
Morse was robbed that was way outside.
this is gonna be Boonie’s night…. i can feel it
Hey, Pat Borders has a career OPS of .666.
Now we know how he’s been able to play for so long.
Man, the M’s BA with RISP is just sad this year … couldn’t even move Boonie over …
in my opinion interleague would be much more entertaining if the pitchers batted in AL parks and vice-versa… of course i despise the concept of the DH in the first place but thats beside the point
Santan’s own Pat Borders!!!?
I mean Satan, oops, sorry Carlos.
I’ve got to agree with Dave, give the opposing fans something different to see, not just another team.
I love that Pat Borders got in shape by clearing 15 acres of trees off his property. bet that grounds a person.
Does anyone know what Border’s salary is in the majors? Since he is a veteran and all, having played since the first Reagan Admin and all.
Morse was on KJR this morning. He said his goal for this season is to get on base as much as possible.
He also said he thinks he has the potential to hit 20 home runs in a season.
I suspect Borders earns the minimum.
I’d be surprised if he earns as much as $500K.
Where would we put Phelps, other than occasional DH (to rest Raul against lefties) or PH? Is that worth what it would cost? $400,000 plus some “prospects”.
Does Dobbs count as a “prospect”?
#46- the debate that never was– Josh Phelps or Greg Dobbs? not exactly a toss up
Ryan Franklin can only blame himself for poor run support in this game.
The first thing I heard when I turned the radio on this afternoon was Dave Valle talking about how exciting it is for Mike Morse to be in his hometown and how he is going to want to go eat at his favorite restaurant, which will probably be serving rice & beans. HUH?
Winn: 2-2
Yeah guys, lets trade him….
Oakland 1, Washington 0, Top 2.
is anyone else getting the FSN Florida feed? I hope these announcers dont fall asleep before the seventh inning. i half expect the play by play guy to mutter “take it away, monty. i’m in…the bag”
As a waiver claim, Phelps costs no prospects. Plus, he would be even cheaper than $500K because you would also subtract Dobbs’ major league salary — probably close to $200K. Plus, Phelps immediately becomes the 3rd catcher.
Did Beltre just lay off three low and outside pitches?
Oh! Did you just see that? Beltre layed off an low and away breaking ball to get a walk. Who’da thought?
Beltre!
Yea, so it’s just a walk. But, per Gameday anyway, he didn’t swing at three straight low-and-away pitches.
Progress.
come on Richie!
BASTARD!
Okay, I’m sold on Phleps. Can he still catch too?
Is the FO smart enough to pull this off? I thought waiver claims involved swapping some players, although with the team DFAing the player bargaining from a very weak position.
Nice catch Randy.
BTW, down here in Texas I just bought MLB’s gameday audio for 15 lousy bucks.
I’m lovin’ it.
Signing Phelps would be an admission that we are worse than Tampa Bay. Because of that Armstrong wouldn’t let Bavasi do it.
#51: Exactly — with every hit, the quality of prospects we can get for him goes up.
Weren’t we supposed to see Willis today?
Franklin has thrown 25 pitches in 3 innings.
I’m still imagining Franklin swinging away like in “The Cycle” ad in the Mariners Shopping Network, when he’s up to bat…
Nice 6 pitch inning there from Franklin.
#64, I understand the idea behind it, I just have a hard time with those who think we NEED to trade him, he is easily one of the most consistant hitters on the team, and an excelent defensive LF.
Mmmm, you just don’t see the Mariner Moose driving around the type of cargo that the Marlin mascot just did….
what’s up with the flavor saver that ibanez has on his gameday pic?
How is Franklin looking tonight? Just got home from work and, from Gameday, so far things look good…other than the lack of K’s. I may need to head to the bar to watch if things are going well.
J.R.
That may be true, but when this team actually has the chance to be contending 2006, 2007, and beyond he most definetly won’t be the most consistant hitter on the team… Why not get something for him now that will be valuable for us then?
Andrew – I am all for it if we get some GOOD prospects, I just hear a lot of people bitching about how bad he is and how much we NEED to trade him.
NO, I think it’s just that we recognise we have more OFs than we need, and we may as well get value back for some of them. Winn is the one who most often looks tradeable.
I only bitch about trading him because he’s the one guy who has some trade value. Ibanez might have a little, but you could definately get something for winn.
We don’t NEED to trade Winn. But at some point, even if its not until next season (but probably later this summer), we’re going to bring up Doyle. And while we could do that at first by letting Hansen go, it’s hard to see what the team gets out of having 3 LH LF (Winn, Ibanez, and Doyle). So what to do — leave Doyle at Tacoma even into next year until someone gets hurt? Use him only as a PH?
I’d vote for being open to offers for either Winn or Ibanez and trading whoever will get us more swag. But none of this giving players away because we “need” to trade them (see Guillen, Carlos).
Phelps for backup catcher!
I hear ya, its just hard when two of your best hitters play the same position.
#77 I think using the Guillen argument is a bit misplaced, he drastically changed his numbers after he left. It’s not like he was a 360 hitter before he left.
But he was decent. He was certainly better than the guys we picked up to replace him.
Even if Carlos had kept being the hitter he’d always been, he was still better than Rich Aurilia.
Wow on Franklin. He’s on pace to throw a 74 pitch complete game.
#82 – It can’t be a complete game if the score is 0-0.
#80 Not really. It hurts even more given the numbers Guillen has put up since, but 2003 VORP:
Winn 28
Guillen 24
Ibanez 23 [with KC]
after that season we decided that Guillen was worthless but that we needed to sign Ibanez fast and give up a draft pick to do it.
#77 How about Winn and Guardado for Kyle Davies. I wrote a little something on my site about it, but I don’t think I’m supposed to promote my stuff on here. Hmmm….can’t hurt to try I guess
#84 – Well, Ibanez worked out just fine. The problem was that he replaced Guillen with Rich Aurilia, a player with a lower OPS than Guillen in both of the previous seasons.
Wow. Winn is 7 for his last 8.
scorching!
That’s the kind of run-producing play we spent $64 million on!
nice fake by morse
poor franklin. as soon as he gets a run, he falls apart
Omg i knew that would happen. The guy just duobled his career hits against us..
If Franklin could skip the 5th inning all together, we’d be a much better team? Is there some kind of DH rule we can invent? The Pinch Pitcher? Meche can use it too.
Bah! If our guys could score more than one flea bitten run, Franklin wouldn’t have throw a shutout. =P
Rauuuuuuul
#50- if it makes you feel better, Valle said being home you have lots of distractions like family, your friends calling, wanting to go to your favorite restaurant, maybe get some pizza, or in Miami, some rice and beans. Being Valle, he just said it rather incoherently.
why does it seem only right that Moeller (who has also suffered from no run support) should get the rbis off Ryan.
it must have been the 2 strike stance. that got him that BB.
#85 That would be great for M’s. Would fill what appears to be needs of Braves.
Also Josh Phelps would appear to be huge upgrade to M’s bench.
What the heck is Ichiro’s prob? Do you think his new stance has messed with him?
Somebody tell me did Hargrove fall asleep? man on first and second with no outs and he lets borders hit then lets franlin hit when Hasegawa was warming up then of course Ichiro does nothing with men on base.
If we loose this one Chalk another up for Hargrove.
That top of the 6th was managed terribly. With Shiggy warming up, Hargrove should have bunted with Borders, and then pinch-hit for Franklin. Doing it the other way around advanced nobody and squandered a good scoring chance. One giant demerit for Grover on that one.
I keep a link to a “Transdactions Primer” that Rob Neyer’s wrote for ESPN.com awhile ago. Here’s his stuff on “Designated For Assignment”:
“Essentially, it allows a club to open up a roster spot while it figures out what it’s going to do with a player. …there are certain situations in which a team needs a player’s permission to either trade him or send him to the minors. So rather than force the player to make a quick decision, the team can simply designate him for assignment while he decides.
More commonly, a player is designated for assignment so the club can open up his roster spot while they’re waiting for him to clear waivers, which can take four or five days. Occasionally, a club will designate a player for assignment while they’re trying to trade him.”
So does this mean that Phelps may or may not be on waivers right now?
Pass the diving Boone lol.
Bad move Hargrove. Really.
I’ve also been waiting for the articles about what’s wrong with ichiro. I mean,
compared to the rest of the Mariners, nothing’s wrong. But.
#100
From what I can see he’s going through one of his usual adjusment phases, where a team gets him out (d-rays) by jamming him up and in. This seems to throw him offbalance for a while, and you don’t see him driving the ball anymore…
Beltre on the other hand needs to keep his head in and punch the damn ball the other way.
Ichiro will soon be below the Ichiro Mendoza line (.300 BA) if he doesn’t start hitting soon. Hitting slightly below .300 may be acceptable for everyone else, but for Ichiro it is unthinkable.
Dobbs gets the job done… his approach leads me to believe he’s better than his numbers suggest.
Dobbs’ main job was to get Shiggy out of the game.
NO, not Nelson!
98: Someone else can probably answer this more authoritatively, but I believe when a player is DFA’d, he’s automatically placed on waivers. If no one claims him, the team has a certain amount of time during which it has to either trade the player, release him, or send him to the minors.
…or Dobb’s number reflect reality. Don’t be fooled by that sweet swing unless of course you work for the Mariner’s FO.
Dobbs hitting instead of Reed makes that 2 bad decisions that Hargrove has gotten lucky with today.
…or Dobb’s number reflect reality. Don’t be fooled by that sweet swing unless of course you work for the Mariner’s FO.
Nelson is up to his tricks of costing us ballgames…
Let’s settle the DFA queston by doing a test – let’s DFA Nelson.
Geez. Thanks, Nelson.
Umm… will Hargrove figure out that Nelson is not very good? You can tell almost immediately with Nelson when he is not “on,” which happens much more now than it used to. Even when he was good, you could tell when he just wouldn’t get the job done and when he would.
Why on earth does Mike Hargrove continue to trot out Jeff Nelson and Matt Thornton in important game situations? They have been consistently mediocre, Nelson gets lucky again tonight after giving up one run. Does anyone have some inside information on this? Anyone?
In his defense, Hargrove doesn’t have much to work with. I mean who would you want out there in a crucial situation besides Guardado?
The M’s have to have some one other than Nelson that does not have me going to the freezer for the Vodka bottle….then reaching for the Valium.
103-
Of course, the numbers say Dobbs is terrible, so “better than terrible” isn’t much of a compliment, is it?
115-I wish I could think of someone, but it’s pathetic really. Putz? Villone? Mateo (he’s decent occasionally)?
PS-
It’s pretty clear Hargrove’s an AL manager, huh?
Gamecast is saying Reed is batting, but won’t say what happened to Ibanez, and doesn’t show him on base. What’s the story here?
will Rick PLEASE shut up about the 10 scoreless innings? Shhh. Please.
Let the man pitch, tell me about 1995, but shut up for one inning.
(i am only a bit superstitious)
Oh, never mind, I see now. THey hadn’t taken Ibanez out from the switch yet.
I feel much better with Mateo pitching than Nelson.
Maybe even Hasegawa, but that’s sort of a toss up.
Relax… these guys aren’t taking the M’s to the promised land anyhow so why worry whether its Nelson or Thornton? And now its Eddie walkin’ the leadoff hitter in the 9th! So go figure. Its baseball
122-
It’s not so much worry but continual aggravation at the mismanagement of the roster that’s represented…
Does anyone get the feeling Guardado’s arm is going to fall off right there on the pitching mound?
Maybe it’s time to start calling him “everyday Eddie” without the sarcasm?
Wow, the last couple weeks as an M’s fan have been…pleasant.
I sense there is something very wrong with the universe.
Watch out folks — with the Rangers and Angels losing tonight the M’s are now only 7 games out in the division (and they might well be 4 games out if Hargrove hadn’t thrown 3 games away with Matt Thornton). Just think where they’d be had they gotten any production out of shortstop and catcher this year…
M’s win, Yanks lose.
A golden day in my book.
I dunno if it was otherwise noted, but Wilson Valdez apparently cleared waivers and was outrighted to Tacoma. He made his debut today in Tacoma’s 6-3 win over Portland, going 0-for-4.
Don’t look now, but Scott Spiezio, in his second rehab game, went 3-for-4 with a dinger and three runs scored.
RE 126: Imagine what it would have been like if Ichiro and Beltre, our two supposed-to-be-stars had been playing up to their capacity? Raul has been hotter than average lately, I’ll grant you that, but this team has the ability to be pretty damn good if the offense can fire on all cylinders…
RE: 127, what about Putz’s home runs?
Actually Spiezio’s 6th rehab game . He was 4/18 prior to today.
Pretty sure I saw Soriano in the high-5 line after tonight’s M’s game. Probably means he’ll be in Tacoma when they come back north. Lopez ought to be coming back pretty soon, too. And Reese.
More changes on the way.
Fairly must be feeling pretty good, as the M’s scored 4 runs, just as he recommended. Maybe he should start talking about how they should score 8 runs.
Yeah, in this roster talk around Josh Phelps, I was going to mention the impending return of Spiezio. There’s a limit to the length of a rehab assignment, so I expect that he’ll be back on the big club soon. My guess is Dobbs is the odd man out, but perhaps Hansen is?
Yep, sixth, thanks. I brain-spasmed there.
Teams can get around DL limitations. There are all kinds of setbacks, new injuries, etc a player can have while on a rehab assignment.
So, you’re going to break his kneecaps, Derek?
Sigh.
No, certainly not that someone’s now said something about me breaking his kneecaps.
This is my favorite site. Love the depth, thought and passion. This is by no means a great team, but ‘the Southern California Angels Near that freeway chase on TV close to Anaheim’ have faced the AL East 6 times. 6 times. Birds, Yanks and Sox. Plus the Rays. We’ve seen them 24 times. Last 10. 7-3.
If I might channel Evil Rick Rizzs for a moment:
“Well friends, it looks like Manager Mike Hargrove’s threat of a strategically placed red hot poker, and the call up of some kids who don’t make $8,000,000 a year whether they play or not, has ignited this team. Say folks, after last nights win, I was visiting with Boonie in the clubhouse, and here’s what he had to say:
‘Rico, if I don’t get motivated, and try my best on defense and at the plate, I should just give all this money to the motivated kids…’
Ha Ha folks. He didn’t really say that. In fact he had to cut our visit short to take a cell phone call from Jeff Cirillo.”
I love Evil Rick Rizzs.
skipj
There are other things that break. And other people to do the breaking.
I seem to remember a case where a player was going on the DL with a shoulder injury and the press asked him “Which one?” and he said “I don’t know, they haven’t told me yet.”
#136 “…this team has the ability to be pretty damn good if the offense can fire on all cylinders.”
I’m sorry to illustrate the obvious but thats the case for pretty much every major league team…. or any sports team for that matter. Doesn’t even have to be a team… Federer would have beaten Nadal if he just would have played better. I’d be retired now if I had bought Microsoft in 1980.
Beltre shows no signs of being an impact hitter. He looks like he’s having his usual 15-20 HR year and about .240 avg. Keeping him on the team looks to me like an act of faith, the faith that he’ll have another peak year sometime during the tenure of his contract. That would be merely a yawn if he wasn’t getting paid the equivalent of the gross national product of Idaho.
Meanwhile, at the plate, he looks like a dysfunctional mix of timidity and agression. Yesterday he bellied up to the plate and Moehler ran a fastball up at his elbows. It had the desired effect. When he stepped back in he was leaning away. Moehler struck him out swinging ineffectually at that low outside pitch off the plate again. Yes it takes courage to dig in right after you’ve had your adrenalin gland squeezed. But he knew the job was dangerous when he took it and he’s being paid a princely sum to be the Man. But he just aint. He’s not hungry enough to take chances and doesn’t appear to be talented enough to overcome his cowardice with skill. He has a lot to prove to me.
Keeping him on the team looks to me like an act of faith
Are you suggesting they should not keep him on the team? Put him on waivers like the Sox did with Manny?
If the Mariners paid the highest price of any bidder to secure Beltre’s services, guessing that he would continue to be a star, why would any team take on his services now that he’s had months of horrible struggle?
At best, the Mariners would have to pay the difference between their evaluation and the current, and likely much lower, valuation of the most optimistic team out there. That’s likely to be a huge amount of money.
If you believe Beltre’s going to continue to stink, you want to move him and eat that money while you can still say he’s having adjustment troubles, etc etc.
If you believe he’s going to come around, the last thing you want to do is pay another team after you’ve picked up the tab on early struggles — you’d be giving them an amazing bargain.
He’s not hungry enough to take chances and doesn’t appear to be talented enough to overcome his cowardice with skill. He has a lot to prove to me.
Wow. Being kind of harsh on Beltre. I see a guy who runs out every grounder and seems to be trying very hard – probably too hard. Calling him a coward seems pretty unreasonable. He clearly isn’t recognizing pitches well at all and I wonder if opening his stance a little would help.
DMZ… good points but its a wild gamble any way you cut it. If your gamble is a loss, its a loss. Continuing to back a loser aint gonna make the M’s FO a winner. Keeping Cirillo around just because they were paying him tons didn’t make him produce. Its a dead loss any way you look at it. They probably had to eat more than crow when they let him go. Now if eating the loss is something they just can’t do in Beltre’s case, then thats that and its no use complaining because the ‘reason’ for playing him isn’t to win games any more. That reason to keep in in the lineup is merely the fact that they have all that cash invested in him. Its still a dead loss.
He certainly hasn’t been producing but it is ridiculous to call him a “dead loss”. Should they send him to AAA and play Dobbs? Should they bench him for Bloomquist? Should they release him and let another team pick him up for the major league minimum? What the heck are you proposing?
The wild gamble was made when they signed the contract. But for god’s sakes you’re talking about a 26 year old guy who hit 334/388/629 last year with 48 HR. Is it crazy to think he might come around?
The reason for playing him is because he’s a young hitter who had an MVP-level season last year. Not because of his contract.
Actually the first step I’d take with Beltre would be to drop him down in the lineup. Having him hit in the #3 hole is killing the M’s offense. Start by moving him down to 6th.
#152 – 0k, I says to meself, ‘patience, Old Grasshoppah’. So two years from now he’s still hitting .240-.250, 60-80 rbi…. thats when the M’s will have gotten their money’s worth? I’m not predicting that, I just wonder how the passing of time will help. Its the hope that he’ll just ‘get better’. How? For nine weeks the opposing pitchers have been teaching him that he can’t hit that outside pitch. Its a sucker pitch but he swings at it anyhow. I have to call him a slow learner. Things must not have been that way last year. I can’t recall who was hitting behind him last year in L.A.? That might have had something to do with it.
I won’t hammer this any flatter today. I recognize that folks want to wait and see… Hell, I have to do that too and, as many have pointed out, there isn’t much alternative. They made a decision, a gamble, they are committed to it and the only thing to do is hope that Adrian and Jeff Cirillo don’t share the same spirit guide.