Game 88, Orioles at Mariners
Thank heavens, the game’s back on and — wait. RHP Daniel Cabrera v RHP Sele? Oooooohhhh.
Congratulations in advance to Rafael Palmeiro on some milestone hit. Boooooooooooooooo!
Bloomquist starts at short. So here’s a question– say you’re Mike Hargrove, and you believe in the hot hand, which is why you’ve been playing Bloomquist every day. How long of a break before you’d assume the hot hand was cold again? Would you try it? And how long does he have to be cold before you go back to not using him again?
And also, where’s Doyle? Fricking play him or let him get his hacks in at Tacoma.
On an unrelated note, Hargrove’s quote in the MLB.com (no link because of their stupid auto-play video clips) –
“I think a five-day break for the All-Star Game would be great. That way you could go home. This way, you spend two days traveling.” — Hargrove on the three-day All-Star break.
Please note how many players have kids in April. So something’s getting done. That’s all I’m going to say.
Comments
239 Responses to “Game 88, Orioles at Mariners”
Angels’ hitting woes continue at MN where are currently losing. It’s apparent we have lulled them into a false sense of confidence.
This will be a good test for the M’s. If we win 3 of 4 I will still have hope.
If I’m me and I believe in the hot hand, I say the first day he is useless he gets benched. But if I am Hargrove, I’d probably give him a few days.
So Larry Stone, whom I expect to know better, argues in today’s Seattle Times that Rafael Palmeiro’s counting stats merit automatic inclusion in the Hall of Fame. If I were a HOF voter, I would say that’s not quite good enough. “Okay, the stats are part of the case,” I would say, “but twll me what it is specifically about this plater that makes him great.” And this is where the argument always seems to bog down. People either can’t get past the stats (he’s great)  or the fact that Palmeiro almost never lead the league in anything (he’s NOT great).
To me, the argument needs to do a LOT deeper.
I would submit that the argument over Palmeiro is much like one over Don Sutton several years ago. Sutton is truly the pitching equivalent of Palmeiro in that he almost never won 20 games, never won a Cy Young Award, never was “first” in anything. He just won consistently over an unusually long career.
Is that good enough?
What got lost there was a chance to talk about what made Don Sytton a great pitcher  what games he won during a pennant race, what key strikeouts he got in the playoffs, how he did against top-caliber opponents, what specific do-or-die moments he had. I want to know the same about Palmeiro.
Longevity is one aspect of a great career. I submit it isn’t an end unto itself.
And Doyle was tied to a pole in a basement somewhere, and Bloomquist extracted all of his talent with some kind of transfusion thingee.
You are editing that thread at a Corco like rate. It’s scaring me.
I agree with you on HoF inclusion, but the HoF is something debated with no real outcome.
I want, along with sustained exceptional productivity, at least a couple of seasons where that player was great, truly great, and everyone knew it because it was impossible to ignore.
Generally, in order to avoid having two authors both write and post game threads, I try and get up a really short one first and then revise it quickly a couple times.
Hargrove wants to take the UTL tag off Bloomquist? What does THAT mean?
True, Derek. But I still think it’s worth arguing anyway amongst ourselves for our own edification … the idea that there may be a valid argument for contending that Palmeiro be the first player with 3,000 hits who SHOULD be excluded from the Hall of Fame.
It’s a lot like McGriff — do his totals warrant inclusion? I’d say absolutely not. Palmeiro, by the time his election rolls around, will have an even more superficially impressive case I think, but the same basic argument will apply.
Especially interesting is to juxtpose the argument with Edgar Martinez, who almost certainly will be kept out of the HOF by his 2,200 hits (thanks to idiocy beyond his control) when it can be sanely argued that Edgar has done far more great things in his career than Rafael Palmeiro has done in his.
Only 3 men in the history of baseball have 500 home runs and 3,000 hits to their credit (Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Eddie Murray).
Rafael Palmeiro will be the 4th man in baseball history to join that club, barring a major injury tonight or sometime this weekend.
I don’t care if he wasn’t always the most dominating hitter. 500 home runs and 3,000 hits still mean something, I’d like to think.
I think the major failing of the HOF system is it’s emphasis on total numbers and longevity. I don’t even think that longevity is that important in the grand sceme of things. I think that if a guy is a dominant player for 5 or 7 years then is hurt and doesn’t play 10, he should still be in. I think that you really have to compare a guy against his era (like Jim Rice) and make the call if he deserves to be in, not just total up his numbers and say he makes it.
Okay, Jeremy, I’ll bite. What does it mean?
I used to feel the same way about Raffy, but c’mon, what more does the guy possibly have to do? He’s going to wind up with over 3,000 hits and close to 600 homers. 600 homers! And it’s not as if he’s stuck around too long, either — he’s only 40 and has been very productive until recently.
And how about his run from 1995 to 2003, when he averaged 41.5 homers a year and hit no fewer than 38 homers in any season? That’s a NINE YEAR run of 40 homers.
jason
3000 hits, 500 Homers
How can YOU NOT make him a hall of famer??
Again, beyond the ccounting stats … what makes him great?
The fact that he accumalted those stats makes him great.
#13 Jim,
Let’s see, there are only 3 players in baseball history who are in the 500 home run club AND 3,000 hit club. In my opinion, that’s the most elite club there is in baseball when it comes to stats.
When I look at Palmeiro’s possible Hall Of Fame induction, I try not to look at what I would do, because I’m not a voter. I look at the voters who are in place already and what they would do. I just don’t see the voters a few years from now leaving Palmeiro out of Cooperstown, due to the fact that he is a member of the 500 home run club and (soon to be a member of) the 3,000 hit club.
As for Edgar being a better hitter than Palmeiro, I agree with you on that. In a perfect world, I hope both men will be in Cooperstown one day.
OK, a couple more — entering this season, he was 8th all-time in extra-base hits, 10th in homers, 11th in total bases and 17th in doubles.
Look at his comps: Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, Reggie Jackson, Mel Ott, Dave Winfield, Fred McGriff, Al Kaline, Harold Baines, Willie McCovey, and Billy Williams. All but McGriff and Baines are HOFers.
jason
Maybe we could have a five-day break, and then they could play a three-game series to determine WS homefield advantage!
“This time it counts — triple!”
jason
Lineup looks great tonight, except Willie should be in the two hole. Go M’s.
I want, along with sustained exceptional productivity, at least a couple of seasons where that player was great, truly great, and everyone knew it because it was impossible to ignore.
Even with exceptional sustained productivity, it’s very hard to get to 3000 hits and 500 HR.
I don’t think there is a single player with 3000 hits and eligible for the HOF but not inducted.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hitting/hi3000c.shtml
Fairly is already getting impatient with Calabro. I love it.
Eddie Murray and Raffy Palmeiro basically have the same HOF case- not dominant, just very very good for a very very long time. Please find me people who had a 11 year stretch of being top 10 in home runs in league, every year, like Raffy, who are eligible for election but AREN’T in the Hall of Fame. Is anyone seriously suggesting Raffy would be a BETTER player if he had hit 49 HR’s in 1999 and led the league, and two less home runs some other year, so the career totals were exactly the same?
As far as I’m concerned, 3000+ hits and 550+ HR’s are enough- it’s incumbent on the opposition to demonstrate why that doesn’t work.
As for Don Sutton, he was part of some awfully good Dodger teams in the 70′s- so I don’t buy the argument that he was Zelig, just hanging out while history was happening around him.
Whoa. Every seat visible in camera is not filled. I’ve never seen that before.
By the way, I said way back in the ofseason that Sosa would be a bust in ’05. I don’t think I’ve been wrong.
Traffic looked worse than usual tonight.
Still – geez.
No Morse again. He’s hitting .343 and hit .357 the week up to the break. What did he do to piss Grover off?
What is the view like from those view-restricted seats behind the foul pole? Is it THAT bad?
I can’t believe the view from there is worse than the view from, say, the upper deck in the outfield (where you can’t even see one or more of the fielders.)
Willie’s Career OPS – 666. Draw your own conclusion.
Curt Schilling just gave up a double and a homer in the ninth to the Yanks. Bavasi, keep the line open for Theo’s call.
Eddie to the RedSox, make that call Theo!
Cabrera looks thuggish in his Gameday photo. We should snatch him up IMMEDIATELY!
First of all, 500 home runs isn’t as much as it used to be. As guys get bigger, and the game has changed to a power game, power numbers went up. In a few years, 500 home runs will be like 400 is now, or even 300. It’s not that big a deal. Also, just looking at the number 3000 hits…that could mean the guy got 300 hits a year for 10 years, or 120 over 25 years. The number by itself typically just indicates longevity. Look at Ichiro, he’s going to end up with something like 2500 hits, but at a rate of 200+ a year. That means a hell of a lot more than 2500 hits at a rate of 150 a year.
I swear everyone on this site is completely obsessed with numbers. THERE IS MORE TO THE GAME THAN NUMBERS! There is more to being a ‘hall of famer’ than just the totals you accumulate, and there is certainly more to it than longevity.
I wonder if we could Epstein would be dumb enough to trade Guardado for Schilling? And would we want to?
Well I think we’re about to see a single to right for #2,999.
Just a hunch and nothing more.
Nothing for Raffy in this AB
that’s what happens when one goes on a hunch; good thing I didn’t have money on him getting a hit there.
# 24 EC are you going to be at Salute Saturday? How far is it from Park? Thanks
Um … what could Curt Schilling do for the Mariners? Besides occupy a lot of payroll and a place on the DL?
Hence the “And would we want to?”
Yes, I’ll be there around 4. It’s up 1st Avenue (towards Asshat Phone Company Field).
And gee, so THAT’S what a starter with a good fastball looks like. I had forgotten, being a Mariners fan.
Ouch, the Yankees just lost Wang to the DL.
42-
Must…resist…bad…joke…
42: Yeah. Something tells me that the Yankees didn’t intend to have Wayne Franklin, Darrell May, and Tim Redding on the active roster all at once!
Willie!!!!
%$#@%$&^%$*^ ESPN.com video clips!
How about that Willie Bloomquist?
So, is “Wally Pipp” an anagram for “Mike Morse”?
I think Sturtze is considered a “starting pitcher” too.
Worst camera work EVER. Good job Willie circa September 2003.
Gawd, Calabro. SHOW, DON’T TELL. We just scored three runs, and you’re reading a flight information card.
Re: Wang on the DL
So is ARod on the 15 or 30?
What I said in comment number four, I now firmly believe to be true.
Hey, it’s wide shoe night!
EEE
Twins down 3-2 in the 7th inning with 2 outs and runners at the corners.
Boone comes up with a chance to tie it(he’s the numbers 3 hitter)
and he swings at the first pitch and lines out
Boone 0-4
“And Doyle was tied to a pole in a basement somewhere, and Bloomquist extracted all of his talent with some kind of transfusion thingee.”
Someone stole his MOJO!
Another example where baserunning matters and is generally underrated.
Jeremy Reed taking that extra base from 1st to 3rd led to all of that — the error that allowed him to score, Willie getting to 3rd, and then Willie scoring. True, another error on the Birds to get Willie in but it was all set up by Reed’s baserunning.
Oh NO Fluffy As someone else posted on previous thread now Ms’ will feel obligated to give Bloomquist multi-year deal.
And Doyle was tied to a pole in a basement somewhere, and Bloomquist extracted all of his talent with some kind of transfusion thingee.
Oscar Wilde is doing his rotisserie chicken imitation in his grave.
Okay, with Thomsen here I feel comfortable asking this. At this Saturday’s shindig at Safeco Field, will there be any special recognition of former Junior Mariners? And if so, must we bring proof, or will you just take someone’s word for it?
Sammy Sosa won’t get anywhere close to 3,000 hits. Is he a Hall of Famer? Why or why not?
Sosa probably will. He has that “great player” reputation, and played for large market teams, while Palmeiro has been in hiding in Baltimore and Texas during his prime. I would give it to Palmeiro before Sosa, but I doubt voters would feel the same way.
The home runs and the 98 homer chase will be big reasons why he is.
The corked bat and the steriod hearings will be reasons he isn’t.
But in my opinion………
Yes he is.
For some reason, it feels like Friday.
I’d like to make this an honorary Friday.
I would also give Palmeiro the nod first. The race with McGwire will help his case with the voters though.
I’m just not entirely comfortable with hits/HR being used as the only metric for players with the bulk of their career in the 90′s. 300 homers in the 90′s is an entirely different thing than 300 homers in the 70′s.
Ladies and gentlemen … Aaron Sele, strikeout ace.
did he just say “bush” prairie?
nice.
There’s 2999.
Some of Calabero’s announcing is funny, like he’s glancing at a reference sheet for the names of things.
“And it’s back to the… warning track and caught.”
“And that pitch was… on the outside corner.”
If 3000 hits and 500 homers is “the most elite club in baseball when it comes to stats”, does that mean that Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, and, ahem, Eddie Murray are the three greatest players of all time?
Babe Ruth’s not there. Honus Wagner, Ty Cobb aren’t there. Barry Bonds probably won’t make 3,000 hits. The list of players in baseball history who had better careers than Eddie Murray, or Rafael Palmiero, is a long one.
Which isn’t to say he shouldn’t go. I just don’t buy the “pick two milestones” approach. H and HR are part of the picture, but not the whole picture, not even of offense, which is only half a ballplayer.
Palmiero has created a lot of value over the years, but he has a few negatives (as a HoF candidate) too. He plays an extreme offensive position in an extreme offensive era. He’s never had those “oh my god” seasons. He’s never finished higher than fifth in MVP voting. He’s only been an All-Star four times. The only times he’s led the league in a significant category are 1990 (hits), 1991 (doubles), 1993 (runs), and 1999 (Runs Created — which is more impressive than any of the other categories, including HR).
On the other hand, he’s played for a really long time at a high level — soon to be 2800 games, well over 10,000 AB. While he doesn’t have a lot of black ink, he’s got a TON of grey ink — he has been among the leaders in every important offensive category many, many times. He’s 19 Total Bases away from tying Frank Robinson for tenth place, which is impressive. His lifetime adjusted EQA is .308; he’s won more than 130 games over an average player (WARP3). As a first baseman, he has been an outstanding fielder.
There are a TON of guys in the Hall of Fame already who are nowhere near his caliber. He blows away other first basemen inductees like Hughie Jennings, George Sisler, Tony Perez, George Kelly, Jake Beckley, and Jim Bottomley, just as he’s clearly not in the same class as Lou Gehrig, Dan Brouthers, Jimmy Foxx, Johnny Mize, Hank Greenberg, Willie McCovey, or Willie Stargell. He’s in the Eddie Murray – Carl Yastrzemski zone. But Yaz had a higher peak and also a longer career than Raffy — though that last may change!
I’d vote for him. I think the BBWAA will vote for him. But if you say no, I won’t say you’re wrong.
http://www.bat-girl.com/archives/001027.php#more
I’m crying on the inside.
And the outside.
This Calabro guy sucks.
He’s boring and dull.
I’ve never bought the “is he better than some other people who are already in?” It feels like voting for one political candidate because he’s not quite as corrupt as someone you had once.
OK, if we’re playing the HoF game… here are three player’s Jamesian HoF indicator scores:
#1
Black Ink: Batting – 28 (62) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting – 138 (108) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting – 47.0 (87) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting – 191.0 (40) (Likely HOFer > 100)
#2
Black Ink: Batting – 13 (174) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting – 153 (79) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting – 50.9 (68) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting – 128.0 (99) (Likely HOFer > 100)
#3
Black Ink: Batting – 9 (234) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting – 105 (197) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting – 47.9 (85) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting – 100.0 (140) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.
One of these guys is not in the Hall and there is a growing consensus that he won’t be getting a plaque. One of these guys has a plaque but has long been a target for removal by some purists. And the last one is playing tonight and there appears to be split consensus over whether he belongs or not.
So… who’s who?
#73 – He’s kinda redundant, too.
#70 – don’t click!
Oops, meant #71.
ESPN should show Palmeiro’s next at-bat.
Unfortunately, they are too busy kissing Curt Schilling’s boo-boos caused from A-Rod’s game-winning home run.
#54 –Goose said: “Boone 0-4″
just to be fair– the entire Twins team had a total of 6 hits– Jones, Stewart, LeCroy, Morneau, Ford, Punto & Castro were all oh-fers.
Thank God Bloomie gets to bat this inning. At least we’ll have another chance to score.
That answers my question, ESPN WILL show Palmeiro’s next at-bat.
I’m looking out for all the folks not in the Northwest, alright?
#75, I wish I hadn’t.
I was okay until that last pic. Now I think I’ll never be quite the same.
Oh Colabro, I love you, but Lopez didn’t come over in the White Sox deal…
Lopez didn’t come over in the Garcia trade Calabro.
Wow not only is this guy dull and boring, but he gets his facts wrong.
I miss Dave already.
We have tickets for tomorrow AND the feed. We’re only going tomorrow if Raffy doesn’t get #3000 tonight.
I haven’t been to consecutive games since the first two interleague games in the Kingdome in ’97.
Calabro is really awful. Even giving him a break for not knowing every Mariners transaction, he is still awkward. Bring on Curto.
Boone ends up going 0-4 in his Twin debut.
.227 is hus average.
God I HATE Aaron Sele.
As they say, Calabro is a great basketball announcer.
So, who picks Leiter off of waivers?
Yay. Lead off homer to the 9 hole. Have we started to forget about those good 6 or 7 starts in a row yet?
Leiter is making 7 million and change. NOBODY picks Leiter off waivers
#88 PMC,
Hopefully FOX Sports. Leiter would be a great replacement for Tim McCarver.
Did he just say Luis Pujols???
Get this guy outta here, he is pathetic!!
DMZ-Checked all recent threads and search and nothing informs one regarding your STP. For those that will miss Saturday please inform?
Ooh…Sunday at Noon on Mariners’ All Access, Matt Morrison goes “one-on-one” with Willie Bloomquist! I hope they’re boxing!
I agree with Derek in #72. Bill James, in “The Politics of Glory,” deftly dissects such straw-men arguments. It’s an excellent book about corrupted HOF politics, good for many online and barroom arguments.
Rizz/Henderson or Calabro/Fairly. KILL ME NOW.
ah, the wonders of free MLB extra innings. Vin Scully informs us that there are 6 Jasons in tonights Dodgers/Giants game as J. Schmidt walks J. Werth to get to pitcher J. Grybowski…
I’ll fight you Henderson.
#97 ??? Jason Grabowski isn’t a pitcher, he is a futility outfielder
Damn, maybe next time.
I know– I just realized I was mixing up Grybowski & Grabowski. Damn these Jasons. At least I know it wasn’t Grimsley.
I’m a little late with this but DMZ if you are really bothered by the auto play clips and you use Mozilla/Firefox (which you should be
), try FlashBlock (http://flashblock.mozdev.org/). It lets you really easily choose what flash you want to run on a web page. Gets rid of a lot of popup ads too (since many sites now use flash to open up windows to get around traditional popup blockers).
FlashBlock also makes espn.com much more bearable.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming….
Dear god, I’m starting to realize why you guys were complaining about Calabro. Thank god I can take control of the TV in just a few minutes (long story).
On my STP: I did talk about it in one of the game threads, but I wrote something up here
Um, how did it get to be 3-3? And why are we playing the infield back to concede a run with one out and the game tied in the sixth? Inquiring minds want to know.
It has been refreshing lately that Mr Corcoran has been typing swear words at an alarming rate for him.
The move must have been high stress. Hope we all buy you favorite Uncle Bud Saturday.
wabbles Fasano hit a homer to lead off the fifth to tie it (of course, it’s tied no longer). They may not have got to it in time on the TV side.
If Sele comes back out, I will cry
Thanks Matt. I was coming from work and had to spend several minutes greeting the neighbor’s cat before I got in the door.
“Whew!” I REALLY didn’t want to see JR cry.
Seems like Harden has a perfect game going through 7
of Oakland
I think the Curse of the Aussie is alive and well. The bad luck got tired of using injuries all the time but, attracted by the willy-nilly use of Doyle’s doppleganger’s name here, decided to get creative and strike with the dreaded Hargrove DL instead.
Kenny Rogers on the other end 6-0
DMZ #107-Great for you a beer on me 16th. Great name for bike no wonder you did so well. Addios
Perfect games or 3000th hit, argh!! I can’t decide. Gameday is a blessing.
Not gameday…”Extra Innings”
Soriano gets a basehit to ruin the perfect game and Mateo walks Raffy.
117 Yeah, but how many cameramen has he got out?
Well, that sucked on both ends.
The fans booing?!!! Ridiculous.
Woah.
What’d I miss? Why the boos?
Mateo walked Palmeiro. They were booing Mateo on the 3-2 count…
Sigh. It should be Doyle up there now.
‘Let’s out Darth Vader-like yell.’ WHY pinch hit Spiezio and not Doyle? AAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!
Spiezio struck out? Call the press!
#127 – OK, those boos I heard. I don’t get it myself, it’s not like it was an intentional walk.
Scott Spiezio’s MLB headshot is even more Flexo-like than Ibanez’s.
Also, he can’t hit.
.056! He’s “hitting” .056! (Lower than that now.) He could be a late stage aneorexic and STILL not be hitting his weight! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!
Hargrove is an idiot.
Go to hell Mike.
.053 now to be precise.
#132 wabbles,
Now Spiezio is down to .053.
That’s worse than ugly.
wabbles, it’s .053 now.
Willie should of ate that ball.
But he’s scrappy! He’s a gamer! AND he’s from Port ORchard!
Spiezio is hitting 0.053 now.
Spiezio could quadruple his BA and still be under the Mendoza Line.
I’m going to reiterate my suggestion that we dub .050 the Sandfrog Line.
Why does Hargrove keep picking Spiezio for PH chances over Doyle? Seriously — I cannot figure it out.
Troops are listening on Armed Forces Radio in Germany, Italy and Iraq.
Is Italy facing an imminent threat of invasion?
53 cents could be good for a used Sandfrog album at the local record store.
What about a .287 OPS?
I liked the box score notation for Spiezio:
“Struck out for Borders in the 8th.”
As if Borders couldn’t do that job himself.
Or maybe this was a case where Hargrove thought that a strikeout specialist was needed.
If I remember correctly, I think the Mendoza Line is .200. But I like the idea of a new Spiezio Line or Sandfrog Line. At least Mendoza was an excellent fielder. I have his card as a Pirate somewhere.
143. Can’t have used Sandfrog albums if no one buys them in the first place. I’d sooner find one in the cutout bin… for 53 cents, of course.
Taco Bell could offer tacos for the Sandfrog Line. Mmm, 53 cent tacos…
Wow. The Twins Hottest Chick competition — awesome. If I had Photoshop skills, I’d be making an M’s version rather than watching us lose this game.
There’s a little debate about the Mendoza line. Normally people call it at .200, but I’ve also heard it mentioned that .215 (his career average) is really the number.
53 cent tacos… made of ground-up Spiezio. It’s likely that seasoned, he’d be a better taco than he is a hitter.
I wonder if he’d be grittier that way.
JJ want to see Raffy again. He want to be remembered for somethin in the history books.
Wouldn’t you know it, the wikipedia has an article talking about just that.
#151 – I’ve heard that beef tastes better when the cows just relax all day instead of exercising.
Actually the Mendoza line was named after Mario Mendoza who sports the lovely career AVG of .215. Of course he played for the M’s too…
Man, I could really wash that taco down with a Bobby Higginson trade. (I forget … who’s the poster who always proposes that?)
Boos again!!!! Cause Raffy DIDN’T come to the plate.
RE: Twins Hottest Chick After viewing that Twins as Chicks (or whatever it is called) at Batgirl.com, I seriously think that USSMariner members have solid ground for a class action lawsuit against that blog’s staff for all our therapy bills. Brrrrr!!!!
Man, that was frustrating to watch. Putz just kept nibbling the whole inning. It seemed like he started almost every batter 0-2 and then lost them via a walk or a hit.. grr.
RE 155 Yes, that’s true. When they exercise, it creates small tears in the muscle. It’s how it gets bigger. But it also makes the meat tougher.
Umm, what was Winn waiting for?
162. I would say a strike. Neither Strike 2 nor 3 were in the strike zone.
#163 – Perhaps, but they were too close to take. I just hate when guys get caught looking. At least make a feeble attempt to hit the ball, ya know?
What the #$%@#$^&$%&&$#^??????!!!!
Looked like Richie got a piece of that last pitch to me, hmm.
Bleh
Thats game.
Yes he got a piece of it!
Let the guy who was hired to do the job of managing, make the educated decision. Nothing is as dangerous as a little knowledge, what is wrong with Willie Bloomquist playing? What do we have to lose? What is wrong with getting a willing learner and hard player more playing time? What are they trying to win this year other than as many games as they can? Ease up on Big Mike, you couldn’t do a better job, do you think he could make your web site better? Play the hand your dealt.
It’s nice to see that script that randomly generates words and phrases getting some use.
Greatness is relative, was Rafael great in his time? Or in another time? Was Edgar anything other than a hitter for most his career? Should the Hall of Fame’s standards rise as the numbers do?
Thanks, I’ve been working on it for a while.
Hmm. Seems to be stuck in a question loop. I’ll have to look into that.
Can someone translate #170? Thanks.
164. I can only assume he would have swung if he thought, at least the 3-2 pitch was worth swinging at. It’s like the ump was going, “Hard, somewhere within the area code of the knees… must be a strike.”
I’ll concede this…. Winn should have swung at 3-2 knowing the pitch before was in the same spot.
…
I thiiiink it means we should all shut up because we’re not major league managers, and thus aren’t qualified to criticize them.
Plus we should be using more Chuck Knox cliches.
Willie Bloomquist is a good, hard-nosed baseball player who can win you baseball games.
FYI, the winners of the first round in the “worst ESPN broadcaster” contest have been announced:
http://www.bravesbeat.com/bravesjournal/bristol/
Actually, that should read…
Willie Bloomquist is a good, hard-nosed baseball player who can make baseball plays.
177 – That translation can’t be right… can it? It doesn’t make any sense.
BTW, it’s official. Hargrove’s a moron. I can’t take this anymore. No Doyle in the lineup for the umpteenth consecutive day. Spezio pinchhitting? SPEZIO????
What kills me about #170 Mark is that his site is called “Retarded Superheroes”. Yeah, I should really be given a lecture by a guy whose blog title is “Retarded Superheroes”. I should just go ahead and write a glowing review about Sandfrog at Sports And Bremertonians just to complete my night.
Good grief…
Yeah, not playing Doyle is really getting mystifying.
Your team has one of the worst offenses in baseball. You bring up your hottest minor league prospect, who had REALLY good minor league numbers….and you don’t play him?????
What’s going on here? What kind of justification can there possibly be for that?
Trade showcasing?
Well, considering that Wiki Gonzalez is hitting nicely in Tacoma, and Miguel Olivo isn’t hitting anywhere, promoting Snelling and Choo to have them rot on the bench makes perfect sense.
*sigh* Guess so. And when you DO put ‘em in a game, they’ll be rusty enough that they’ll do poorly….creating a self-fulfilling prophecy….
Ghargh.
157, Jim, IIRC it was Typical Idiot Fan who was always on the Higginson wagon.
Regarding the obnoxious MLB autoplay “feature” on the propaganda page: when the window pops open, a link is also available at the bottom right of that window to “Disable Auto Launch”. I don’t remember seeing it until recently, so maybe people bitched enough that they decided an off button might be nice.
Regardless, at least with FireFox it appears to work just fine (should work with IE, too, but I haven’t tested it so I won’t vouch for it) – I clicked the link, closed down my browser, then reopened it and went to the page with no auto launching video.
Just for the record… I was NOT one of Melvin’s detractors. I don’t bash Willie or Franklin or as a rule, Spezio. They may be sucking as players, but they aren’t penciling themselves into the lineup. I’ve even been patient with Hargrove. I’ve needed the benefit of the doubt myself a few times so I tend to give it to others.
But I’ve had it. I want the Hargrove era over. I’d love it if Grover started taking his medication as prescribed, but I just don’t think it’s likely. Sure, he might follow doctor’s orders for a few days and seem okay, then BAM! Next thing you know he’s gnawing tree bark and pinch hitting his garden gnome for Ibanez. Let Bavasi drive him home and change the locks while they’re out.
Jeez. I’m not happy. And you have no idea how unusual that is.
Hmph. I wasn’t a Melvin basher either, but I can certainly understand the critiques on how he used his bullpen…that’s a solid, objective criticism of tactics, which doesn’t get into that bullcrap about not being fiery enough (whatever that means).
But I just don’t understand Hargrove’s use of his lineup; it seems to me that it’s creating more problems than it can solve.
Tell you the truth, I didn’t consider Melvin the manager Lou was/is, and I had the occasional gripe about his use of the pitching staff as well. On the other hand, I never suspected HIM of recreational drug use. Hargrove on the other hand…
Well c’mon. There’s got to be SOME kind of explanation, doesn’t there? I mean, Hargrove isn’t running onto the field naked or anything that obvious, so we can probably rule out a full-blown psychotic episode. I haven’t seen him talking to himself a lot or exhibiting other symptoms of schizophrenic behavior. So what is it? Is he secretly on the Yankee’s payroll, they’re evil enough to pull something like that, right?
I’m surprised I haven’t heard anybody saying that Willie is Lou’s son-in-law, the way they used to explain Lou’s use of Ayala.
BTW, I agree entirely with the remark concerning Melvin’s temperment. Totally ignored all the successful low-key managers. What drove me crazy for a long time was the comment after every game that we needed to tip our caps to the opposing pitcher for throwing a great game. Uh, it wasn’t his pitching, dude.
I have the zen-like feeling that I am now a thread of one.
I meant to go away, but first, this correction: one #191 that should be Hargrove’s son-in-law, not Lou’s. Bedtime for this Bozo. later
I can’t really comment on Calabro tonight because I followed the first half of the game on the Internet while at work, and the second half on TV at home. Did hear Henderson’s challenge to anyone (USSM posters, especially?)to tell him that Palmeiro isn’t a Hall of Famer, though. Wow. If only the team had that fighting spirit.
Honestly, since I’ll be at the feed on Saturday, I want Palmeiro to take the collar tomorrow night. I’ve never seen a major baseball milestone in person (closet I came was Lenny Harris setting the all-time PH record as a Met in 2001), so it would be an absolute thrill to say I was at the stadium when Palmeiro got that 3,000th hit.
There are a lot of people that I respect who seem to disagree with me about this, obviously, but I just don’t see the argument for Palmeiro not being a hall of famer. He wasn’t every considered a great player, sure: people were wrong. He spent a long time as one of the most underrated hitters of his time, and now that he has compiled an impeccable career resume, the fact that people didn’t notice while he was doing it is being held against him. It’s not just counting stats; how does his career VORP add up, for example?
How is Palmeiro’s case different from Bert Blyleven, who is championed (rightly) by the analytical community? Neither was seen as dominating, both of them were very very good for a long time. I agree that dominating makes a more convincing case, but I think that there’s a plateau of greatness that can be reached by being in the top tier for a long time without ever being the best, and I think Palmeiro is clearly beyond that plateau.
As for never being dominating: he was second in total bases three times. In the top five six times.
I don’t want to jump the gun or anything, but I want to clue you all in…
You might want to cash in some frequent flyer miles now to get down to LA over Labor Day weekend, and book tickets to see the M’s play the Angels on Saturday night the 3rd and Sunday afternoon the 4th.
Those will be the games when Willie Bloomquist will tie, then break Joe DiMaggio’s 56-game hitting streak record.
I know you’re upset. I’d rather have it happen at home, too.
But with some advance planning, we can all get down there to watch history. Someone remember to bring a wireless connection…I’ll want to log into the game thread to see reaction by pro-Willie “See! He’s got a hot hand! Ride it, baby!” and anti-Willie “But his minor league numbers are awful!” camps.
Looks like seats are going fairly fast…the best seats for the Sunday game are down the right field line a bit. But we’ll always be able to say we were a part of history. See you there!
196. To answer your rhetorical question as to how Palmeiro’s case differs from Bert Blyleven’s, with his 287 wins and 3.31 lifetime ERA, I remember what a friend of mine who was once a sports writer in the Twin Cities told me… that Blyleven was kind of an ass to the writers. It’s just a theory, and maybe it’s a non-issue, but every year when the HOF voting comes around and when Bert B. is on sports talk shows championing his cause, and he STILL doesn’t get in (while Fergie Jenkins, who has three less, is in, that’s what I think about.
And, yeah, only two hits. No, you don’t tip your hat to Daniel Cabrera.
It would be a mistake to say that cliches are a sign of a limited imagination or vocabulary. It is not as if Hargrove were thinking about an issue or a question and then emitted a cliche.
It is important to understand this: nothing precedes the cliche, neither state of mind nor ratiocination. Hargrove opens his mouth and the cliche is made manifest. Ask him about pinch-hitting Spiezio instead of Doyle and, no doubt, the answer will sound something like “I went with the proven veteran.” That is not a symbol of his thought, that is its essence.
Re. #157:
Nah, the whole Scott Spiezio for Bobby Higginson trade proposal was my idea . . . as it is, instead of having to deal with Spiezio’s anemic batting line (.053/.182/.105), I’d rather have Higginson and his elbow problems on the M’s 60-day disabled list; hell, if that were the case, then there would at least be a chance for *********** Doyle ******** to actually pinch-hit. Of course, if that were the case, then Mike Hargrove’s mental idiocy would force him to use Dave Hansen (.194/.270/.290) — who I figure isn’t really injured — as the M’s #1 pinch-hitter.
Also, regarding the RBI machine known as Willie Bloomquist, the M’s need to stop playing him before their luck runs out . . . now, with that said, statistics indicate that a person has approximately a 47% chance of doubling his or her money at a roulette table, as long as they place a bet on either red or black, during each spin, which would allow for a hot streak to possibly occur; however, with every hot streak, there is a very, very long cold spell. Yet, for what it’s worth, all of the numbers of the roulette table added together (i.e., 1 thru 36) equal 666, so maybe Bloomquist did, in fact, sell his soul to Lucifer.
Anyhow, my rationale in the thought of trading Spiezio for Higginson during Spring Training regarded the fact that Higginson’s contract ($8,850,000) expires at the end of this season, while Spiezio’s continues on past 2005 ($3,166,667), through 2006 ($3,166,667), and includes a buyout in 2007 ($250,000); it’s sucks that the deal didn’t happen, but oh well.
Furthermore, I was also behind sending Bret Boone ($9,000,000) to the New York Yankees for Chien-Mien Wang ($316,000) — as this was before their signing of Tony Womack — but that idea didn’t pick up any steam.
If there’s a 5th starter in the majors leagues with more of an attitude than Ryan Franklin, I’d like to know who it is.
Tomorrow’s P-I details that the M’s are going with Franklin as the 5th starter to open the second half, meaning he won’t start vs. the O’s in this series. The article says that it was done to get the team the best matchups but Franklin is pissed because it means he’ll have had 10 days in between starts.
He started the next to last game before the break so if they went in exact order he’d start Sunday. Instead he’s starting the game after that! It’s not like they’re skipping his turn even though they do have a day off on Monday… Perhaps Ryan is just pissed cause instead of pitching at Safeco he has to pitch at Skydome — against a team that shelled him the last time he faced them? Is he trying to get traded, released or what with these comments in the press? He says he’s only had 2 or 3 bad starts all year — I count six…
“I thought I would pitch (earlier),” Franklin said. “They’ve got their reasons. It does (expletive) me off. I’ve felt good all year. Other than two or three starts, I’ve pitched good all year.”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/232748_mbok15.html
Re. #202:
Chien-Ming Wang {Sp. Error!}
Re #202
Bobby Higginson (logic error) — Since Higginson wouldn’t have been any more useful to the M’s than he’s been to the Tigers this year, what would the M’s have gained by this deal (other than having $5.5 mil less to spend in the ’05 budget)?
however, with every hot streak, there is a very, very long cold spell.
Er…not exactly.
If I flip a coin that is equally likely to come up H or T, and get HHHHHH, which is more likely to happen next?
HHHHHH
or
TTTTTT
Answer- they are BOTH equally likely.
Here’s the thing. Willie’s 27, and at an age where he might well be starting to peak. He could be turning into David Eckstein Lite, or Rich Amaral- a genuinely useful backup utility player instead of a 25th guy. If so- he’s JUST as likely to be as productive as Mike Morse would be for the remainder of the year (who wasn’t hitting much more impressively in Tacoma than Willie was in 2002), or (probably) Jose Lopez- maybe even Jeremy Reed (especially if Willie’s spotted against lefties for Reed).
So, it may well be putting him in the lineup is a push. I wouldn’t discount it.
Re. #206:
Ah, but in the case of roulette, the odds aren’t 50%, but rather roughly 47%.
Anyways, regarding Willie Bloomquist, the odds aren’t even near 47%, as the only instance that he has done as well as he has done during the past 8 games happened in September of 2002, and that lasted only 12 games (33 at-bats); thus, for anyone to expect him to continue his tear for much longer is not only inane, but also illogical.
Right- but even then, if I get six reds, six more reds are just as likely as six blacks.
And who says I expect him to be on a “tear”? A .666 OPS or so is a tear? I’m just saying he could be a useful player for a while- and might be a wash with the kids right now (not likely longterm- but Rich Amaral didn’t keep A-Rod out of the lineup when he was ready to play back in the day).
Offensively:
Rich Amaral (.276/.344/.351) > Willie Bloomquist (.264/.319/.345);
Defensively:
Rich Amaral (.978) > Willie Bloomquist (.966);
Baserunning:
Rich Amaral (74%)
Cont. of #209:
All in all, baserunning notwithstanding, Rich Amaral was, undoubtedly, a better player than Willie Bloomquist.
As it is, though, Bloomquist is an okay 25th-man/pinch-runner @ the cost of $385,000 for the year; however, the problem is that he is currently STARTING every day, which thereby hinders the growth and present-day production of guys like Jose Lopez, Mike Morse, and Jeremy Reed, as they are players who actually have the ability to possibly make a long-term impact for the franchise . . . moreover, come this off-season, Bloomquist could start earning anywhere from $1 million to $2 million per season via either arbitration or a contract extension, which would be a complete and utter waste of money and of a roster spot.
[deleted -- good 'till the rude ending]
So Larry Stone, whom I expect to know better, argues in today’s Seattle Times that Rafael Palmeiro’s counting stats merit automatic inclusion in the Hall of Fame. If I were a HOF voter, I would say that’s not quite good enough. “Okay, the stats are part of the case,†I would say, “but twll me what it is specifically about this plater that makes him great.†And this is where the argument always seems to bog down. People either can’t get past the stats (he’s great)  or the fact that Palmeiro almost never lead the league in anything (he’s NOT great).
To me, the argument needs to do a LOT deeper.
I would submit that the argument over Palmeiro is much like one over Don Sutton several years ago. Sutton is truly the pitching equivalent of Palmeiro in that he almost never won 20 games, never won a Cy Young Award, never was “first†in anything. He just won consistently over an unusually long career.
Is that good enough?
What got lost there was a chance to talk about what made Don Sytton a great pitcher  what games he won during a pennant race, what key strikeouts he got in the playoffs, how he did against top-caliber opponents, what specific do-or-die moments he had. I want to know the same about Palmeiro.
Longevity is one aspect of a great career. I submit it isn’t an end unto itself.
Well said.
I have been saying for the last 3 years that counting stats don’t get him a free pass to the HOF.
He has never finished higher than fifth in MVP voting. In spite of the problems with the voters, this says a lot. The Sporting News rated him player of the year in 1999 – so perhaps MVP voters were wrong.
His playoff performance is nothing special – 244/308/451 in 82 AB.
He does one thing very well – hit home runs. Two things, he knows how to stay healthy. And both those have a lot of value.
In the end, the voters will forget about the stat inflation in power numbers of recent years and vote him in. But my HOF is for greatness – and he just misses the mark.
dw,
What are the answers to your trivia questions?
Who is this player? He isn’t in the HOF.
Black Ink: Batting – 11 (201) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting – 164 (66) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting – 43.7 (111) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting – 118.0 (114) (Likely HOFer > 100)
203: If Spiro gets himself traded, all I have to say is:
Na na na na Hey Hey Hey Go-oodbye
I think only one person on this thread mentioned Raffy’s fielding, which has been superior, even though he won a gold glove one year while dh-ing. Fielding is certainly something he has done well in addition to power hitting and longevity.
#203:
“They know I don’t like it, but there’s nothing I can do.”
Except whine to the press.
Yes, Spezio is a proven veteran. But if you keep playing the “proven vet”, you’ll never get the unproven rookie ANY proving–you’ll never see what he has. And with an offense starved team, it still makes no sense in the big picture to not play (we’re not even talking about starting) a minor leaguer who was tearing up the league. At some point, he’s got to be played to establish his level, right?
Uh, Rich Amaral came up at age 29- and played a LOT more time in the OF than Willie has, so comparing their fielding percentages at this point is completely bogus.
If you compare Rich Amaral’s minor league stats AT THE SAME AGE and Willie’s, they aren’t very different. Please note that Amaral started hitting well in AA at…age 27. Which is Willie’s age now. Gee, if only I had said “he could be turning into David Eckstein Lite, or Rich Amaral”. Oh, wait, I did.
And 25 points of OBP IS fairly important, in terms of career offensive productivity…
For those of you submitting yourself to the gritted teeth experience which is the post-game show on KOMO last night, I was the first caller on the line with Blowers and asked how you could pinch hit Speizio (after allowing for the fact that he’s a swell guy and good in the clubhouse), he of the .056 BA late in the game when you had Snelling, who has hit at every level sitting on the bench. Then I asked when the M’s were going to give up on Speizio, since they’d just DFA’d a guy hitting almost 200 points HIGHER than he was.
For those of you not listening (and frankly I don’t blame you), Blowers channeled Hargrove (“proven veteran, and he’s had some success before, and he seemed to have found his stroke in his recent rehab assignment at AAA”), then went on to talk about how Speizio had something in common with a lot of players who’ve come here as successes, struggled here, and then gone elsewhere and done well. I didn’t get a chance to respond to that point, but I *did* get to hear Shannon Dreher weigh in with: “I’d at least have liked to see Morse up there in that situation if you’re not going to start him.”
Talk about your breath of fresh air there at the end!
IE-IO
Spiezio.
This is not that hard.
Only 81 pitches in that Harden CG.
#220.
Thanks for the clarifying comment, DMZ. I was unsure on Dreher’s name, did I get that one right or wrong?
Re: BLYLEVEN’S HOF CHANCES (# 100)- Reminds me of something. I was living in Boston in the mid-’50s, and read a column that some local sportswriter had written, telling why TED WILLIAMS would never get a managerial job. (He hadn’t given sportswriters the respect they think they deserve; even insulted them by calling them “the knights of the keyboard.”)
The sportswriter told how sportswriters had previously withheld their support of BOB MEUSEL’s managerial ambitions, because he wasn’t humble enough.
[He was wrong on Williams, but it's beginning to seem that BLYLEVEN might not overcome their pettiness.]
#213
dw,
What are the answers to your trivia questions?
#1
Black Ink: Batting – 28 (62) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting – 138 (108) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting – 47.0 (87) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting – 191.0 (40) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Sammy Sosa. His average Black Ink and slightly below average Gray Ink belie his monster peak surrounding by years of above-average play.
#2
Black Ink: Batting – 13 (174) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting – 153 (79) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting – 50.9 (68) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting – 128.0 (99) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Sam Rice, who was a RF for the Washington Senators in the 1920s and 1930s and finished with 2997 hits. He’s often been cited as a guy who doesn’t belong in the Hall because he only hit 34 HRs and was merely an adequate glove (though Griffith Stadium at the time was as big as Coors is now, only 5000 feet in elevation lower).
#3
Black Ink: Batting – 9 (234) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting – 105 (197) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting – 47.9 (85) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting – 100.0 (140) (Likely HOFer > 100)
The Crime Dog. The indicators show that he’s a very, very borderline candidate for the HoF. To compare him to Palmeiro is kinda silly, considering that while McGriff was very good for 5 years and good the rest of the time, Palmeiro was very good for ten years and good the rest of the time.
Who is this player? He isn’t in the HOF.
That would be The Hawk himself. A slightly better candidate than McGriff, but he’s just as borderline. Probably should get some props for being screwed over by collusion.
“the problem is that he is currently STARTING every day, which thereby hinders the growth and present-day production of guys like Jose Lopez, Mike Morse, and Jeremy Reed, as they are players who actually have the ability to possibly make a long-term impact for the franchise . . . moreover, come this off-season, Bloomquist could start earning anywhere from $1 million to $2 million per season via either arbitration or a contract extension, which would be a complete and utter waste of money and of a roster spot.”
Very good point, I agree. I think that Mike Morse and Jose Lopez are definately good pontential Major Leaguers. Jeremy Reed however is ALREADY a good if not great potential major leaguer, and I would love to see him with a solid roster spot. Chris Snelling also has the talent on par with Reed but coming off recent injury should he be throwin in, considering his apptitude at injurying himself? Everything has two sides. Don’t just listen to one side. I thought Melvin was garbage, Lou was great, Hargrove is great, but in the end all the manager does is write players names on a card. The players play the game, and the point of the game is to score more runs than the other team, everything else is secondary. “The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility.”
Can someone explain this also??
Who is this player? He isn’t in the HOF.
Black Ink: Batting – 11 (201) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting – 164 (66) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting – 43.7 (111) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting – 118.0 (114) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Oh, and on Calabro, he stated he could have done this gig before but figured Waltz should do it, ’cause Waltz could do it better. You’ll notice he didn’t defer to Matt Morrison. (THANK GOD!!) or (Allah be praised!!),or (Whew!!) for you atheists.
1) Cut Calabro a break, he hasn’t done a game in 7 years, and frankly his other gig is a tad more exciting even WITH Craig Elho.
2) That, ladies and gentlemen, was an AWFUL exhibition of baseball. Sele got a few Ks but a number of hard-hit balls were caught. The M’s offense was limited to one solid single, one lucky broken-bat blooper by Willie the Ignitor, followed by a brief demonstration of Little League Baseball by the O’s. Never again did a runner cast a shadow upon 2nd Base.
3) I think Cabrera has shown what “effectively wild” means. Many a 97MPH fastball whizzing over a batter’s head, makes you think. Hitting the backstop on the fly is a nice touch too!
4) Franklin, despite being a whine-bag, has a point – Sele’s going to get 2 starts before Franklin gets to touch the resin bag? Maybe Nellie suggested he try the public complaint technique to get traded to the Yankees.
5) I vote Palmiero in because of career acheivement, sustained HIGH performance at the plate, and top-level defense at his position. You can’t just go on “famous” acts like a 66 HR season. Ray Knight led the Mets to the 86 WS, do we vote him in?
Oh Christ, couldn’t you have just deleted the rude ending? I dont wanna type that all out again. =/
Ah well, I will anyway.
Can I sue for libel?
So you don’t mention the baserunning percentage because it doesn’t suit your arguement. I would also argue that 12 points of batting average and 25 points of on base percentage don’t make a snail’s snot worth of difference in Major League Baseball. Only in the extreme long term could miniscule differences be measured.
How, exactly, is this such a horrid problem? Despite his torrid hitting out of the chute, there isnt a single person here who believes that Mike Morse is going to be a huge impact player for the Mariners in the long term. More then that, there are better shortstop prospects in the minors who are due to arrive here in a few years. Jose Lopez has been replaced one time by Bloomquist, so I seriously doubt Willie is holding him down. I would argue that Boone’s playtime this year has been more an impotence to Lopez’ development then Willie Farkin’ Bloomquist. As for Reed, he’s played enough to show us whether or not he’s going to be a part of the future. Some people have mentioned that we should trade him away for a power hitting CF. I am not one of them. But Reed has had more playtime this year then any of the other prospects. He’s fine.
So in short, Willie Bloomquist is not hurting anything by playing. Or if he is, it cannot be proven. It cannot be proven if he’s helping the team either in the long term. One thing’s for certain, Willie Bloomquist shouldn’t be getting this much ire. It’s not his fault he’s paying well right now and is put in the field in positions occupied by our prospects.
Well, the anti-Palmeiro argument’s here.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/050715
I see several problems with it:
- Only 4 All-Star appearances isn’t actually that shabby, in a league with Mo Vaughn, Mark McGwire, Tino Martinez, Fred McGriff and Frank Thomas all competing with Raffy directly for spots on the roster at various times.
-The “they have to be one of the dominant players of their era” argument was lost LONG, LONG ago, unless you want to tell me guys like Al Kaline, Tino Perez and Don Sutton were “dominant”. Heck, go look at the black ink and MVP awards Dave Winfield has…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/winfida01.shtml
Basically, he has Raffy’s qualifications (3000 hits, a lot of HR’s, and being elite without dominating)- except he has more All-Star appearances.
Oh, so that’s it; He’s paying to play, and paying well. At least it’s nothing like compromising pictures.
So in short, Willie Bloomquist is not hurting anything by playing.
He’s certainly not helping, though. While Morse isn’t expected to be a franchise player, he is going to be a good hitter and a slightly better than replacement level glove. But in order to be a good hitter, he needs to face hitting on a regular basis. If he’s sitting on ice for 5, 10 games at a time while Bloomquist regresses to his mean, then that’s not helping. Ditto Reed. Dave thinks he’s Mark Kotsay, while I lean towards Rusty Greer, but in either case he’s going to be a really good OF. But in order to learn, he needs to play. Ditto Lopez. He doesn’t play, he doesn’t learn.
It cannot be proven if he’s helping the team either in the long term.
Actually, it can be. Let’s say it takes a player x plate appearances to fully adjust to MLB pitching, at which point they’re hitting at 100% of their expected performance. If Bloomquist has 100 plate appearances that should have gone to Reed, then Reed will need x + 100 PAs to reach that 100% level. Now, the problem is we never know what x is because x is affected by a lot of variables besides playing time. But, if you assume it would take 600 PAs for Reed to adjust and start to extend his skills at the MLB level, and Bloomquist takes those 100 PAs away from him, then he’s going to need to make up those 100 PAs in some way, whether a psyche change (“I’m not going to let this pipsqueak push me out of the lineup”) or winter ball or some other method. But, in the end, you’re going to get an additional set of overperforming PAs from Reed in a period of time when he shouldn’t be underperforming… maybe in 2006, when we may actually contend.
If the M’s are toast, then Bloomquist should only be playing as a pinch-runner and as a day-off sub, not every single day. Eventually, he will regress and Morse/Reed/Lopez will get their playing time. But every PA he has is one PA Morse/Reed/Lopez could have had.
One thing’s for certain, Willie Bloomquist shouldn’t be getting this much ire.
I think that’s one thing everyone on this group agrees about. No one hates him as a person. But his continual presence in the field is a constant reminder of the unfortunate stubbornness of Mariners groupthink and the outddated concepts that the mythos surrounding him is built on. That’s why you get the visceral reaction from people on here. It’s not the player, it’s the idea of the player.
Assuming Willie rotates between 2B, SS and CF, there are (3*73) games left for them to play. Sharing those games 4 ways means they all can play 54-55 games each; assuming Willie plays every day between now and the end of the season (he won’t), Morse, Lopez and Reed would play 48-49 games each.
There are lots of rookies who only start out playing part-time, and it doesn’t kill their careers. I think this is a tempest in a teapot.
re 232
Um, yeah, byt when you mix in Doyle, and I perceive to be the non-systematic way the new players seem to be getting playing time, I think we’re getting into a bigger arena than a teapot.
175 — I translated 171 into Japanese with Google and back to make it clearer:
“Permit decision fixed there is the education which was employed the person in order to work management and does. At all a little knowledge namely what it is not dangerous, but you were wrong with the Willie Bloomquist, you play, it isn’t, rather than? what the losing trap ã‘ ã‚Œ don’t we become? rejoicing when, making a mistake with to obtain the learner and the hard player, many is the fact that you play, when? it is possible, it is what which tries the fact that it wins in the same way in this year other than many games? the large microphone namely you from the ease couldn’t it is and works, you you the web sight are better and ã› ã‚‹ thing can do him who is thought? your present of the hand which copes do.”
I think that pretty much sums it up for me.
Re: MATEO WALKING PALMEIRO (#s 121-127) – Let’s hear it for Raffy. Some players in that situation would swing at aanything to get that 3000th hit; he knew that the walk would help his team just as much.
BTW, in the much-maligned 1887 (the year that walks counted as hits) the scoring officials may actually have known what they were doing.
Um, yeah, byt when you mix in Doyle,
So you’re going to bench Winn (note that Willie hasn’t been playing LF much)? That sure helps his trade value.
Personally, I don’t think they should have brought Doyle up without a starting job for him, but I guess, based on what happened with Choo, the team thinks having rookies rot on the bench so Spiezio can K is just fine.
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According to logic, we should hope Willie plays badly? For the sake of the future? Please disagree.
He hits doubles: 572, 17th all time. He led the league once, and finished in the top five four times.
He gets hits, period. You don’t get 3000 just through longevity. He topped .300 six times, and finished second and third in batting average.
He knocks in runs. 100 rbis ten times, including nine seasons in a row.
He’s eighth all-time in extra-base hits, with 1161. Come on, is that not an indicator of a great hitter? The guys surrounding him on that list are Gehrig, Frank Robinson, Yastrzemski, and Cobb.
He draws walks, too: in the top 10 eight times, 33rd all-time.
He led the league in runs scored one year, and was second in another; he’s 38th all-time.
He’s 17th all-time in Runs Created. The guys surrounding him on the list are Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, Mickey Mantle, and George Brett.
He’s a great power hitter. But he’s an excellent all-around hitter, too, very far from one-dimensional. I believe — and I apologize if this offends anyone — that the case against him fundamentally depends upon the perception that he’s not a great player, against the evidence. We never recognized he was a great player when he was at his peak, so he wasn’t, and isn’t.