Paging Mr. Cashman

JMB · July 22, 2005 at 9:33 am · Filed Under Mariners 

With just a week left to go until the trade deadline — and the M’s out of the race, regardless of what a certain local writer thinks — I hope Bill Bavasi has Yankees’ GM Brian Cashman on speeddial. The Yankees have a few glaring holes right now, and the M’s have the spare parts to fill those holes.

First up, they need a centerfielder. Bernie Williams is old and can’t handle the position on a regular basis (some would say he can’t handle it at all). Randy Winn, anyone? I know, he’s not the world’s greatest out there. But he improved as last season went on, and he’s certainly better than Williams. Here’s the other thing with Williams — not only has his range declined, there’s also a reliability issue. He’s been dropping balls he should be catching, and say what you will about Winn’s defense, but he doesn’t drop balls he should catch. No, he doesn’t have the strongest throwing arm. Know what? Williams hasn’t been able to throw for two years. However you slice it, Winn would be a big upgrade for the Yankees. He’d also add some speed to a lineup that doesn’t have much.

Next up, middle relief. Take a gander at some of the pitchers the Yankees have trotted out in relief this season: Colter Bean, Felix Rodriguez, Buddy Groom, Scott Proctor, Steve Karsay (since released), Paul Quantrill (since dumped on San Diego), Mike Stanton (since relased), Jason Anderson, and Wayne Franklin (formerly released by the Brewers). Yeah, there are some recognizable names on that list, but Rodriguez, Quantrill, and Stanton are light years from the pitchers they once were (and they’ve already gotten rid of the latter two). The Yankees have, essentially, three effective relief pitchers: Mariano Rivera, Tom Gordon, and Tanyon Sturtze. You’ll notice none of those three are left-handed.

Not only do they need a lefty — hello, Eddie Guardado! good to see you, Ron Villone! — they need a guy for the 7th, someone to bridge the gap between the starter and the 8th-9th combo of Gordon and Rivera. Guardado, Villone, Shigetoshi Hasegawa, Jeff Nelson for the third time… the M’s have arms to burn, folks, and the Yankees need ’em.

Phone call, fax, certified letter, carrier pigeon… doesn’t matter. Just get in touch with Brian Cashman, Bill.


100 Responses to “Paging Mr. Cashman”

  1. isaac on July 22nd, 2005 11:34 am

    so dave, can you PLEASE suggest some possible players that the yankees would/could send our way in a trade for winn/guardado/whoever? at this point, youre just making flippant comments about how dumb we all are for not knowing what you know, but failing to provide any substantial insight.


  2. DMZ on July 22nd, 2005 11:36 am

    He’s provided that substantial insight before, as he’s noted. Your accusation that he’s being flippant and accusing others of being dumb are out of line.

  3. Dave on July 22nd, 2005 11:48 am

    Christian Garcia, Tyler Clippard, Philip Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Eric Duncan, Marcos Vechionacci, and Ramon Ramirez, just to name 6.

  4. PositivePaul on July 22nd, 2005 11:55 am

    #52 – but it might help all of us if there was a quick link somewhere in this thread to those comments. Believe me — I’ve tried the search engine and even Google, but I can’t recall where Dave’s insights into the Yankees’ system is exactly located.

  5. Christopher Michael on July 22nd, 2005 12:01 pm

    What we need is a stockpile of prospects that other teams want. It doesn’t matter where those come from. Yankees are as good as any other team.

  6. eponymous coward on July 22nd, 2005 12:08 pm

    The “don’t trade Raul Ibanez” thread a while back had some discussion, I believe. (I issued the same fatuous statement a while back in there and got schooled by Dave.)

  7. msb on July 22nd, 2005 12:11 pm

    LB said:”The past is past. The bottomless pile of money that the NYY is built on is gone.”

    not while YES exists.

  8. The Ancient Mariner on July 22nd, 2005 12:11 pm

    Re #53–Dave, is there any realistic chance we could land Philip Hughes or Steven White? (Garcia’s ceiling is a long way up there, but given the M’s situation and recent injury history, I’d prefer safer bets; for that reason, I’d probably be as happy with White as with Hughes.)

    Re #49–that makes four of us in Colorado, then.

  9. Grizz on July 22nd, 2005 12:14 pm

    #44: The pile of money is still there, just the Yankees are a little smarter about using it now. Making a 7-year, $120 million commitment to Beltran is not the same as a one-time payout of $3-$6 million to ensure you make the playoffs (especially considering the Yankees would make most of that money back from playoff revenue).

    In the category of “ain’t gonna happen,” Matsui also apparently lacks a no-trade clause. His contract is up at the end of the year, but he will not be eligible for free agency.

  10. JMB on July 22nd, 2005 12:14 pm

    Who cares if you make the Yankees better this season? It’s not as if they’re our direct competition this year (or even any year, for that matter). Besides, I think we could trade them Winn, Guardado, Villone, *and* Hasegawa and they wouldn’t win the World Series (might not even win the division) because their starting pitching is so fragile.

    Yankees, Red Sox, Orioles, White Sox… I don’t care who you make a deal with. Deal these unneeded players in order to get better for next season and beyond. I only mentioned the Yankees because I live out here now and have a better handle on their needs.


  11. Dave on July 22nd, 2005 12:17 pm

    White just came off the DL yesterday after missing basically the whole year with a strained abdominal muscle. Its pretty rare to see a team trade for a guy when he’s missed that much time, recently. Even if they didn’t think the injury was a big deal, they almost certainly don’t have any reports on him from 2005, and teams generally won’t trade for a player without getting a good recent look at him.

    Hughes would almost certainly require Guardado and Winn, I would think. In my mind, he’s their best prospect, and I doubt they’re willing to give him up.

  12. msb on July 22nd, 2005 12:33 pm

    speaking of money, here’s an older link to a Forbes discussion about the Yankee (and other cable-channel owning teams) revenue streams

  13. wabbles on July 22nd, 2005 12:33 pm

    Very compelling case. And, as I’m sure we all are aware, the Yankees haven’t won a World Series THIS CENTURY! (If you start the century in 2001, which is another discussion.) The Red Sox have won more World Series this century than the Bronx Bombers! Yes, we must help! But it keeps coming back to what we get in return. They certainly have the holes and we certainly have the plugs for those holes. But except for that third baseman, their farm system supposedly is pretty thin. Maybe that is just urban legend. There’s not a heck of lot players on the big club who excite me except perhaps Sierra two years ago or MAYBE A-Rod (but let’s not even go there). Oh yeah, I’d probably take one of their catchers either at New York or Columbus. I’m willing to deal but does Cashman have to offer?

  14. Adam S on July 22nd, 2005 12:37 pm

    I’d trade the Yankees Winn and Villone for nothing just to get their contracts off the books for next year and open up spots for the two guys at “Tacoma” they’re blocking.

    OK, the rational side of me knows giving away Winn is dumb — you can always get something in the offseason — but that’s how the emotional side feels after a month of watching the M’s do nothing.

    As Jason said, I’m surprised we haven’t already moved a middle reliever to NY, Boston, or Chicago (others?) who clearly need some help.

  15. LB on July 22nd, 2005 12:44 pm

    Regardless of what money YES churns out (and I realize it is a sizable sum, just like the Red Sox’ situation with NESN), every dollar that the Yankees give a player will cost them $1.40 when they settle up with the tax man.

    Cashman (what irony in that name) has said he’s not got any more money to spend on player payroll. Yes, this is likely a front to some degree, but you cannot assume that NYY will take every burned out player with a bad contract off Bavasi’s hands just because Steinbrenner has been Mr. Moneybags for the last 30 years.

  16. dw on July 22nd, 2005 12:50 pm

    As Jason said, I’m surprised we haven’t already moved a middle reliever to NY, Boston, or Chicago (others?) who clearly need some help.

    I’m surprised that Chicago hasn’t been dangling a prospect out there in hopes of getting a bullpen guy. With Takatsu DFA’d and Hermanson DL’d, they’re down to Politte closing and no one to give the ball to him.

    The Yankees are very, very old and struggling to keep head above water. They overspent on mediocre pitching in the offseason, but that pitching will be even worse in 2006. If they’re going to win a WS this decade, it’s going to be this year. That’s why I think the Yanks would be willing to part with some prospects to get Winn and Guardado. The question is which ones would they be willing to part with….

    The O’s don’t need anything we have. Their BP is set, their OF is OK. The Red Sox need a reliever and possibly some infield help. Honestly, though, I hate Red Sox fans and Peter “YOU CAN”T PUT A TEAM WITHIN 2000 MILES OF ME BECAUSE MY TEAM WILL SUFFER” Angelos.

  17. Rick on July 22nd, 2005 12:56 pm

    Thanks for the info Dave. I’d trade any and all of them for Clippard or Hughes.

  18. Avery on July 22nd, 2005 1:12 pm

    I would be happy with Christian Garcia.

  19. Evan on July 22nd, 2005 1:27 pm

    If you start the century in 2001

    To do otherwise would be idiotic.

    On the Orioles, I’m frankly quite surprised they’re trying to compete. Angelos has guaranteed revenue and a guarateed franchise value. Spending money on salary is basically throwing it away.

  20. eponymous coward on July 22nd, 2005 1:29 pm

    Why be surprised? Maybe Angelos actually (SHOCK!) owns a baseball team because he likes the idea of owning a champion.

  21. Grizz on July 22nd, 2005 1:37 pm

    The point here is that contrary to urban legend, the Yankees do in fact have something to offer the M’s in trade — prospects, cash, or some combination of the two. The Yanks have included monetary components in deadline deals the last two years (A. Boone in 2003 and Contreras last year), so it is reasonable to suggest that they would consider doing so again if the prospects they are willing to give up alone will not get them the player they want. The M’s only have two really bad contracts for 2006 (Spiezio and Pineiro), so either one would be the obvious candidate to go (even if the Yankees assume only part of his salary).

    The O’s actually could use Winn (in CF or LF and to pair with Roberts at the top of the order), Villone (to replace Kline), or maybe even Ibanez (to balance out righthanders Mora, Tejada, Lopez, and Sosa).

  22. eponymous coward on July 22nd, 2005 2:04 pm


    Here’s the Yankee roster right now.

    Please tell me who you are going to be removing from the roster to make room for Spiezio if you’re Cashman. Then tell me with a straight face Steinbrenner wouldn’t fire your ass if you punk’d the roster to take a hitter 100+ points under the Mendoza line.

    Including garbage in a trade does not make it better for the team accepting the garbage- so why on earth would the Yankees want Winn+Spiezio more than just Winn?

    Now, if we were taking salary from the Yankees, including Spiezio might make sense… but can we just accept the fact that Spiezio has NO trade value besides being dead salary (see: the Cirillo/Jarvis trade) and move on?

  23. David J Corcoran on July 22nd, 2005 2:07 pm

    Andy Phillips.

    Or they can afford to just DFA Spiezio.

    I think a trade with the Yankees is a good idea with Spiezio, but I would give them Spiezio and a AA Pitcher (Jon Huber?) for Tim Redding, so we give up a little value for a slightly nicer contract to release.

  24. jtopps on July 22nd, 2005 2:07 pm

    I think we should deal Winn and get the best we can. My only concern with the Yankees is that few of their prospects (atleast the ones named by Dave) seem to be major league ready. I guess I hope for a pitching prospect that could have an impact next year.

    And with our OF situation as it is now, is trading for Cabrera really the answer? Part of the upside to trading Winn is getting playing time for Snelling/Choo etc.

    Christian Garcia P — Single A (Charleston)
    Tyler Clippard P — Single A (Tampa)
    Philip Hughes P — Single A (Tampa)
    Melky Cabrera OF — Triple A (Columbus)
    Eric Duncan 3B — Double A (Trenton)
    Marcos Vechionacci 3B — Single A (Charleston)
    Ramon Ramirez P — Double A (Trenton)

  25. The Other Tom on July 22nd, 2005 2:10 pm

    # 72 – Andy Phillips, 1B hitting .156 in 32 AB is the clear choice when you already have Tino and Giambi on the roster. That being said, the M’s are stuck with Spiezio. I’m also assuming that the link is to the 25 man roster and not their 40-man, although it doesn’t appear to say which it is.

  26. eponymous coward on July 22nd, 2005 2:20 pm

    So you’re going to release a .156 hitter making the MLB minimum to trade for a .091 hitter making 3.1 million (who’ll cost you 4.34 million when the luxury tax is assessed)?

    The Yankees may spend lots of money, but that’s just stupid.

  27. Grizz on July 22nd, 2005 2:21 pm

    #72: The main consideration for that type of deal would be the Yankees assuming most or all of Spiezio’s remaining salary instead of giving up a top prospect in return — the M’s are not going to give Winn to the Yankees for free. The Yankees did a similar deal with Aaron Boone in 2003, and the Marlins are attempting that now by trying to package Mike Lowell with AJ Burnett. If the Yanks did not immediately DFA him, I suspect the Yankees might option #14 Andy Phillips to Columbus for the n-th time this year if they wanted to test drive Spiezio before releasing him, but that is not exactly the point.

  28. The Ancient Mariner on July 22nd, 2005 2:27 pm

    Re #61–OK, so that’s why you didn’t mention White. I had seen something at some point that he was down, but I hadn’t realized it had been anywhere near that long (and didn’t take the time to look, of course); since it was an abdominal strain, it wouldn’t bother me any, but I can certainly see why the club would take that view. In any case, if we could actually get Hughes for Guardado and Winn, I’d make that move without question; I’m just not sure the Yanks are that stupid, even given Steinvader’s win-now mentality.

  29. Grizz on July 22nd, 2005 2:28 pm

    EC, let’s put it another way. The Yankees would essentially pay the M’s $3.1 million (or a lesser amount) for Randy Winn instead of giving up a top prospect.

  30. David J Corcoran on July 22nd, 2005 2:34 pm

    I wouldn’t trade Guardado and Winn for an A-Ball prospect, even if he is really good. You really risk alienating your fan base if you trade two of your best players for one guy in A-Ball, because the guy will not be up soon to make an impact, and that is risky. To casual fans, it looks like you just gave up your two best players for nothing, which is kinda scary. I don’t think that that is worth it.

  31. DMZ on July 22nd, 2005 2:40 pm

    Depends on who they are and the organization making the deal. Many times in trades of star players, you’ll see organizations hold onto and promote bad players they got in trades so they can say they got “3 major leaguers” out of a deal. That doesn’t help anyone. At some point, the team has to make cold-hearted decisions: is winning four more games in a lost season worth more than an top A-ball arm that might turn into something really valuable?

    I’d go for the former, myself (four games in a half-seaon is huge), but as the second part of the deal goes up, it becomes a lot more tempting.

  32. Brent Overman on July 22nd, 2005 2:46 pm

    They could DFA Womack, unless they swap Spiezio for Womack, which isn’t out of managements logic…

  33. Evan on July 22nd, 2005 2:53 pm

    What’s appalling is that Womack has been performing exactly as they should have expected, and yet it got him benched.

    Why did they sign him, then?

  34. dw on July 22nd, 2005 2:54 pm

    Off-topic, but the talk about YES got me thinking… might the M’s consider launching their own cable network when their deal with Fox Sports expires in a couple years? Might that give them an additional revenue stream that could alleviate some of this ownership pressure to make back everything they lost between Smulyan and the opening of Safeco? They may even be able to get into the Vancouver cable market and re-establish the M’s fanbase in the Lower Mainland.

    With a 100% wholly owned network, the ownership would have to take on the costs, but they would also keep 100% of the advertising revenue.

    Just a thought. A steady cable network could really open up a solid revenue stream, esp. if all the games were in HD.

  35. dw on July 22nd, 2005 2:56 pm

    What’s appalling is that Womack has been performing exactly as they should have expected, and yet it got him benched.

    Why did they sign him, then?

    Because no one thought Robinson Cano was going to be this good this season. Also, Womack was the only 2B on the market.

    Yes, they could have traded for Boone in the off-season, but then they would have had Womack’s bat for Boone’s money and been out Robinson Cano.

  36. eponymous coward on July 22nd, 2005 2:58 pm

    The reason I would see for accumulating A-AA level players is that:

    – the jump from AA to the majors is less than you think. Two of the Mariners’ best players ever jumped from AA to the majors: Alvin Davis (OK, he had 1 game and 3 AB’s in AAA), and Mark Langston.

    – the more talent you can accumulate, the better deals you can offer other teams for the holes you can’t patch. A deal where you liberate the best arm in someone’s organization looks a lot better if they get some young talent coming back. The M’s already have 34638 shortstops and LH outfielders with no power. At some point, they are going to have to figure out SOMETHING to do with them, or watch them walk as minor league free agents. Why not add some more so you can make a deal where 4 A-/B+ good young players go for one A good young player and a player this team you’re trading with can’t afford any more, but you can?

  37. David J Corcoran on July 22nd, 2005 2:58 pm

    If he were even in AA I’d be all over it, and although I’m generally not a believer in the TINSTAAPP Theory, trading for a young arm that is only in A-ball is really a high risk proposition, especially when giving up two major leaguers, which you could get probably something a bit closer, maybe not as good, but a bit closer for. I’d go for a lower risk, lower reward trade, myself.

  38. David J Corcoran on July 22nd, 2005 3:00 pm

    Look, I’d gladly give up Snelling and Jones for Hughes, but Winn and Guardado I would be more reluctant to give up for him.

  39. Jim Osmer on July 22nd, 2005 3:02 pm

    I still think the Red Sox would give you a top pitching prospect (starter) for Eddie.
    Then next’s year rotation could look like

    1. Top Free agent–maybe the gyroball guy from Japan
    2. Bobby M
    3. Felix
    4. Red Sox prospect
    5. Pineiro or second tier pitching prospect

    This would feel like a brand new rotation

  40. Shawñ on July 22nd, 2005 3:07 pm

    What the hell is TINSTAAPP?

  41. David J Corcoran on July 22nd, 2005 3:07 pm

    There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect.

  42. dw on July 22nd, 2005 3:09 pm

    The M’s already have 34638 shortstops and LH outfielders with no power. At some point, they are going to have to figure out SOMETHING to do with them, or watch them walk as minor league free agents.

    Then you take away their SS glove and move them to the corners. There’s nothing wrong with changing their positions.

  43. Jim Osmer on July 22nd, 2005 3:13 pm

    #92 Looks like Adam Jones, Tui and maybe Morse fall into that category.
    Since Lopez is already moved, the real SS prospects are Cabrera and Betancourt.

    Also what about the DeSalvo (spelling?) kid for the Yankees system, is he worth trading for?

  44. lauren, token chick on July 22nd, 2005 4:31 pm

    Uh oh #94… didn’t they already say they would Answer No Questions about the Moyer thing?

    My question: is Guardado going to pass any kind of physical exam to even *be* traded?
    Thinking of the Vizquel exam from a couple years past…

  45. lauren, token chick on July 22nd, 2005 4:32 pm

    Whoa. Apparently they will not only Answer Any Questions but Permit The Question to Exist.

  46. Jon Wells on July 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

    #38 Wholeheartedly agree, Dave. I’ve never heard this nonsense brought up here about not trading within the league. You just don’t eliminate half of the interested parties if you want to get the best deal. But hey, if #31 ballgame had his way the M’s would never have made the Freddy Garcia deal. Gee, all those times we face the White Sox, that’s been a real disaster…they also wouldn’t have made the Jay Buhner deal with New York or the Jamie Moyer trade with the Red Sox, both players who ended up playing 10+ years with Seattle.

    While I would welcome the M’s trading within the division (yes, a Pineiro for Zito deal sounds good to me too but first you’d have to
    give Billy Beane a lobotomy), there does some to be an unwritten rule about trading withing the division (the assumption being that if you trade a guy who becomes a star to a division rival it’ll be much more noticeable year after year to your fans).

    In the last ten years I believe the only trade the M’s have made with another AL West team was in ’99 when they dumped Jeff Fassero and his 7.38 ERA on Texas and got back the immortal Adrian Myers.

    Trades within the division just aren’t done that often throughout baseball. Three I can recall off the top of my head are Shawn Green deal between the D-Backs and Dodgers last winter, an Angels/Rangers deal a few years back where Ken Hill was exchanged for The Intimidatee (Jim Leyritz) and a Yankees/Red Sox deal in the early 70’s (Sparky Lyle for Danny Cater). Speaking of which, I wouldn’t expect we’d see Cashman and Theo making any deals during their tenures in NY and Boston….

  47. RickL on July 22nd, 2005 6:56 pm

    Eddie decided to make it exciting

  48. Pud on July 22nd, 2005 7:24 pm

    I agree. Who gives a crap who you are trading with. If it improves your team you make the deal. I can see a team not trading with a division rival that’s right in the middle of the race with them, but the Yankees? Come on, who gives a crap if we help the yankees this year.

  49. Mountainman Ernie on July 22nd, 2005 11:09 pm

    Good thought starter Jason. I don’t think anything we say will make any difference but it’s a good way to let the fans let off some steam. Looks like Bucky might be ready by the middle of August, it will be interesting to see where he fits into the equasion. We got to get Bryan out of here, and get a catcher in here. KEEP ON TRUCKIN.


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    So I was talking to my girlfriends last night and they says to me this is chintan desai.