Two-pronged trade rumor update

Jeff · July 25, 2005 at 8:27 am · Filed Under Mariners 

1. Chris De Luca of the Chicago Sun-Times thinks that A.J. Burnett would be good for the White Sox, but Eddie Guardado would be Tony-the-Tiger grrrrrrrrrrreat:

As for Guardado, the Mariners say he isn’t available, but it’s widely expected that Seattle will listen to offers that include prized prospects such as McCarthy. Williams worked magic with the M’s last summer, getting Garcia — for youngsters Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed and Mike Morse — well before the deadline. So expect Williams to keep M’s general manager Bill Bavasi on his speed dial.

I would say that this also has little chance of happening if we hadn’t seen Kenny Wiliams’ willingness to trade top prospects to the Mariners last year. McCarthy just turned 22, and he’s the real thing. Check out those strikeouts per nine inning numbers over his three minor league seasons.

If this offer indeed comes to pass, it’s a no-brainer in my eyes. I hope every columnist in Chicago starts pushing the “Garcia trade was magic for us, let’s do that again!” line.

2. The Sporting News’ Ken Rosenthal doesn’t think much of Randy Winn.

If the Yankees weren’t, well, the Yankees, they perhaps could acquire a center-field prospect like the Brewers’ David Krynziel or Marlins’ Eric Reed and tell him to just play defense and now [sic] worry about offense. The pressure of competing for Team Steinbrenner, however, makes it imperative that the Yankees acquire a more proven player. The Mariners’ Randy Winn wouldn’t necessarily be the answer. Here’s what a scout said about him in The Sporting News Ultimate Baseball Scouting Guide, “Winn is not a good center fielder. Gets better jumps in left than in center. Arm is short and better suited for left.” . …

This is common perception among fans, too, and the note about his arm is true. But everyone looks better in left than in center, and I think this is more an indicator of how underrated Winn is than anything.

[Note to Yankees: he’s not so underrated that you should give up Carl Pavano for him.]


130 Responses to “Two-pronged trade rumor update”

  1. G-Man on July 25th, 2005 4:12 pm

    CBS Sportsline is spreading Finnegan’s rumor of Pavano for Winn:

  2. zzyzx on July 25th, 2005 4:12 pm

    79 – Can A-Rod, Jeter, and Rivera have a big collision on the mound please?

  3. Mat on July 25th, 2005 4:17 pm

    My understanding is that players on the DL can be included in trades as a PTBNL, subject to the approval of the commissioner’s office.

  4. The Ancient Mariner on July 25th, 2005 4:20 pm

    FWIW, Vazquez’ ERA at the end of July was 4.10 (after posting a 6.61 ERA for the month, as Dave noted) . . .

  5. Brian (No Relation To Matt) Thornton on July 25th, 2005 4:23 pm

    #100. The M’s got Halama as the PTBNL in the Randy Johnson to Houston trade. Halama was hurt and on the DL at the time, hence his inclusion as at PTBNL.

  6. Andrew on July 25th, 2005 4:28 pm

    I agree that the Yankees would be crazy to give up Pavano for Winn. They would be crazy to give up Pavano for Winn and Villone (not that they haven’t done crazy things in the past like sign Tony Womack). But is there a package the Mariners could offer that might be attractive to them? Say Winn + Villone/Gurdado + Moyer/Meche + Nelson/Hasegawa for Pavano + fringe prospect? The Yankees could spin it as shoring up their bullpen, getting a more reliable starter (Meche has ten wins! And they hate Pavano in NY now… hehehe), fixing centerfield, and dumping salary. Am I crazy? Am I Ryan Howard crazy? 🙂

  7. jtopps on July 25th, 2005 4:33 pm

    Wasn’t there a lot of talk this last off-season about Pavano not wanting to play anywhere in the west? Why would that have changed?

  8. Pilots fan on July 25th, 2005 4:38 pm

    #103 — Call me crazy, but I have to believe we have more negotiating power than that.

  9. Eric on July 25th, 2005 4:38 pm

    104, he was a FA then who controlled where he signed. Now he has no control, I don’t think he has a no trade clause and he certainly isn’t 10-5.

    That said, put me in the camp that the Yanks have no intention of trading him now, maybe in the off-season.

  10. Karen on July 25th, 2005 4:43 pm

    Someone on a 5-page(!) “Randy Winn Appreciation Thread” on is calling Our Favorite Team “Mariner Mart”… 😉

  11. The Ancient Mariner on July 25th, 2005 4:44 pm

    In any case, I can’t think the Yanks would believe that swapping Pavano for Meche would be any sort of improvement.

  12. Jon Wells on July 25th, 2005 4:53 pm

    They’re getting impatient with Boone (.191 BA with the Twins, all singles, poor defense) in Minnesota and there’s already speculation that he might be released in the next week. Geez, that would spoil the homecoming at Safeco on August 8th! Twins Mgr. Ron Gardenhire, when asked if Boone’s adjustment period should be over, said “Should be…”

  13. LB on July 25th, 2005 5:09 pm

    #100: A PTBNL must change leagues, which is why he’s usually a minor leaguer. NYY and Seattle both being AL teams, Pavano cannot be a PTBNL in a deal between the two.

  14. LB on July 25th, 2005 5:10 pm

    #107: Far better to get there by typing into your browser.

  15. LB on July 25th, 2005 5:15 pm

    #106: As a veteran free agent, Pavano (if he were traded here which is a mighty big if) would have the right under the CBA to demand a trade at the end of the season. If the M’s could not find a trading partner, he would become a free agent.

    I believe no player has ever gone to free agency via this route. I do not know if any have been accommodated with a trade.

  16. Dave in Palo Alto on July 25th, 2005 5:15 pm

    109 — The tank sure went empty on Boonie in a hurry. I remember Joey Cora losing it in a flash too. Maybe it’s a second baseman thing.

    I hope the FO realizes that for most M’s fan, the next few days may be the only excitement left in the season. If they simply dump players for cash, it would be sweet misery.

  17. Steve on July 25th, 2005 5:27 pm


    #106: As a veteran free agent, Pavano (if he were traded here which is a mighty big if) would have the right under the CBA to demand a trade at the end of the season. If the M’s could not find a trading partner, he would become a free agent.

    To amplify. That provision applies to a player with a multi-year contract who is traded with more than one year remaining on the contract.

  18. pensive on July 25th, 2005 5:35 pm

    #47-Dave, This is very late but yes that many players could be gone. White Sox need a reliever and Olivo(Ozzie likes him).

    Just wonder if you agree that it would be in Mariners best interest to try to get a AAA catcher from a club that too many?

  19. Smegmalicious on July 25th, 2005 5:47 pm

    I’m probably nearly the only Mariner fan who would say this, but I don’t want to see Olivo traded. I want to see him get more at bats.

    He has all the tools to be a very good MLB catcher. He’s got a great arm, is getting better at calling a game and working with pitchers and has shown large improvements on his defensive catching. As for his bat, I think that’s just one step away from comming around. The guy is in trouble, yes, but he’s working on it, and once everything clicks and he drives a couple of balls the other way, he’s going to be a monster. Well, maybe not a monster, but an above average hitting catcher with really good power at least.

    What Olivo needs right now is confidence and at-bats, and if he gets the at-bats the conficence will follow, I’m sure. If it were up to me, he’d be catching the bulk of games and getting as many plate appearances as possible, possibly even DH’ing at times when not catching until everything clicks and he stops trying to pull everything.

    The guy has the tools to be a top tier catcher, and right now his trade value is basically as low as it’s going to go. We’re not going to get anything from him the way he’s playing now, and the season is lost, so lets work him out of it.

  20. skipj on July 25th, 2005 5:54 pm

    Question: When a team sends a player and cash, i.e. Bret Boone, to a team, does the players salary acrue to:
    1. The team paying the payer ?
    2. The team using the player ?
    3. Somehow neither ?

    I’m mostly curious as to how this might effect the Yankee’s luxury tax. Also, between Boone and Cirillo, that is, as they say in the east, “that’s alot of f%&^*@) cake”, and someone else is eating it, anyone I missed?

  21. Colorado M's fan on July 25th, 2005 5:59 pm

    re. #103…

    So let me get this straight. Winn + Villone + Meche + Nelson for Pavano and a “fringe” prospect?


    You are either trying to get even for the Buhner-for-Phelps deal or your last name is really Cashman 🙂

  22. LB on July 25th, 2005 6:00 pm

    #120: A team cannot evade its luxury tax by giving a player to another team and enough money for the other team to pay the player.

  23. eponymous coward on July 25th, 2005 6:01 pm

    Um, the Yankees have an OK bullpen, and aren’t going to be 86’ing guys off the roster to clear space for THREE extra players.

    Winn and Meche for Pavano is BARELY believable…as an offseason transaction.

  24. Colorado M's fan on July 25th, 2005 6:08 pm

    Sorry, I meant to reference #106 in my earlier post, not #103.

  25. skipj on July 25th, 2005 6:20 pm

    Thanks LB.

    Do you happen to know how draft signing bonuses are handled? It seems that in the quiescent press, teams report payrolls that don’t add up, so I guess I wonder where the difference lies between what we read and what they really report to MLB.

  26. LB on July 25th, 2005 6:37 pm

    #125: I could be wrong about this, but my understanding is that the luxury tax applies only to players on the 40 man roster, so draft signing bonuses would not ordinarily be taxed.

    I know that Boston used some creative roster management for tax evasion this year by shipping BH Kim to Colorado in exchange for Charles Johnson, who also had a “bad contract.” They immediately DFA’d Johnson without ever putting him on the 25- or 40-man rosters and minimized their tax hit by doing so.

    The Red Sox did just sign Craig Hansen to a major league deal which gets him onto the 40 man roster right away, so his bonus money may be suject to luxury tax. I’m honestly not sure. Garden variety signing bonuses, I think, are not.

  27. J.R. on July 26th, 2005 8:12 am

    Well, Nevin said no to the trade to Balt. That leaves SD still looking for a vetran pitcher. Do you think they would be interested in Meche? He is not much worse the Ponson. Do they have anything to give us?

    Just a thought.

  28. Ralph Malph on July 26th, 2005 10:04 am

    They’re getting impatient with Boone (.191 BA with the Twins, all singles, poor defense) in Minnesota and there’s already speculation that he might be released in the next week.

    Did they not scout him before they acquired him? Who did they think they were picking up?

  29. Logan on July 26th, 2005 10:48 am

    Brandom Mccarthy looks awful statistically this season.
    Brandon posted an 8.14 ERA in 24.1 innings with Chicago White Sox allowing 8 homeruns in that time. He had a 5.17 ERA in 78.1 innings with Charlotte allowing 14 homeruns. His strike outs walk ratio looks good, but I am not impressed looking at the numbers. I like Bobby Livingston a lot better, and would hope by season’s end at Tacoma he gets a shot at the 2006 rotation replacing Pineiro.

  30. BoneFan on July 26th, 2005 11:51 am

    As seems to be the jist of the two USSM posts on the subject … There is NO WAY the Yanks trade Pavano for Winn and a pitcher. None. No way. The only source for even the speculation seems to have been Finnegan. Strange that it has gotten so much discussion here.

    The Yanks have snookered themselves RE trade bait … Cano is now untouchable, Wang is hurt, anyone who’d replace Pavano would cost more runs than having Bernie or Womack out in CF would … which makes it hard to guess what they are discussing with Bavasi for Winn. Yanks fans and beat writers are notoriously Finnegan-esque (remember last year’s Garcia-for-Contreras rumors?)

    I’d say the Winn to Yankees trade happens ONLY if nothing better than Sean Henn is available, and even then the M’s may decide it’s better to hang on to him.