Game 138: Mariners at Athletics
JMB · September 6, 2005 at 6:27 pm · Filed Under Game Threads
RHP Joel Pineiro vs. LHP Joe Kennedy, 7:05pm, FSN & KOMO
The game thread is up early, so you can get your comment on(*)!
RF Ichiro
CF Strong
DH Ibanez
1B Sexson
3B Beltre
2B Lopez
LF Morse
SS Betancourt
C Ojeda
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101 Responses to “Game 138: Mariners at Athletics”
For those of us in the Bay Area the game is on channel 6/36. Enjoy.
Morse back in LF and Strong in…
I say this=long night
Why do people insist on equating Strong with subpar defense? I’ve seen him play several times … that and his numbers say he’s a fine defensive center fielder.
Strong can fly out there. Seriously, the dude is fast. Covers a ton of ground. Sure, his arm is lacking. Range isn’t an issue, though.
Tampa is holding NY to 3-3 going into the 9th. I’m gonna stay with that game for a bit, I think.
If your comment gets on for four or more hours, consult a physician.
“Mike Morris” in LF?
Oh, boy. Another episode of “Joel’s First-Inning Follies” ….
Haha, Beltre looked like he wanted to take off Ellis’ head.
On the bright side for we Yankee haters…Tampa just won, 4-3
There’s that Strong arm showing its weakness.
Piniero’s a nice guy helping Chavez out of his little hitting slump like that.
Guessing game: Right now Kennedy’s ERA is at 5.93; Piniero’s is at 5.62. At what point tonight will Kennedy’s ERA be lower?
#13–well, if he keeps finding that magic strike corner of the plate, pretty darned soon.
btw, nice shot of Betty leaping to high-five Sexson yesterday. of course, , for some reason the AP says it is Beltre…
#4, maybe he should run the ball in to the cutoff man.
ok, really, rate his throwing arm.
10 being ichiro/guererro
1 being olive oyle (sp?)
Woohoo! Tampa beat the Yankees again! Always nice to see.
Jamal-icious!
I love the absolutely delighted smiles on the faces of some of these youngsters (like Jamal Strong — who they just showed after his base hit), when they get aboard. This game ain’t *all* about money.
Just 98 percent about money.
#15, nate –
I’d rate Strong’s arm a 4.5, maybe a 5, on that scale (and personally, I’d only rate Reed’s arm about a 6.5 – 7), but I agree with Jason and Jim that range is not an issue for him.
If the arm were Strong’s only problem, it wouldn’t be a problem. But there is the lack of power, too…. Still, he *is* an underrated player, IMO.
Meanwhile, Ryan Howard hits his 14th dinger in 247 plate appearances.
(Okay, I admit I’m just trying to needlessly stir something up.)
DMZ, if you are there –
Did you hear Niehaus announce that they are skipping Jamie tomorrow (and starting Franklin on 3 days’ rest) in order to get Jamie and extra home start? They are moving toward the “Jamie = Home Starter” idea….
Whoo boy, a tired Franklin’s gotta be worth an extra dozen runs.
I thought the same thing — Franklin on short rest?!
#19–
“I’ll tell you one thing that hasn’t changed in baseball, despite what so many people who try to glorify our era at the expense of the modern players will tell you. We played for the money, too. To say we played for the love of the game is to perpetuate a myth. I liked baseball and it was certainly an enjoyable way to make a living, but the money is the only reason I played.” — Elden Auker, MLB 1933-42, from his “Sleeper cars and flannel uniforms”
I find that to be wonderfully honest. I like being a newspaperman, but I go to work for the money.
Franklin on short rest!
“Ex-ce-llent! It’s all coming together, now.” __M.B.
Next thing you know the M’s will go back to a 3 man rotation with Pinero, Franklin, and Meche. We’ll be just like the Cleveland Spiders! YES!
I thought Ryan was the one who did ok on short rest, what with his ‘rubber arm’ and all– it was the long times off that got to him…
I think everything gets to Franklin.
I would trade for Ryan Howard JUST for that one game.
“LF” Morse
Interesting contrast between Ichiro’s handling of that off-the-wall hit in right field and Morse’ less efficient handling of a similar ball in left here in the bottom of the 5th.
Another night of the M’s batting like the Little Sisters of Charity softball team. Even the 11,912th playing of the Snoop Dog-Ikazizzle commercial cannot comfort me.
When does Felix pitch again?
To no particular point: Sexson looks a lot like Ted Danson in ‘Cheers’ with that new hair color.
Lopez would’ve made it ….:o
Morse!
I just wish a Mariners late-inning pitching duel didn’t make my stomach hurt so much.
I think we have an Evil Rick Rizzs sighting – he was pretty amused about Mark Kotsay bobblehead night.
Im not 100% sure why you would PR Reed for Morse here…
But I could be over looking something.
Think of it as an early defensive replacement.
Reed, Ojeda, Lopez… the future is spotty but on some of these late summer nights, the future is here
Uh…Good Job Reed.
Can someone explain why Rick Rizzs is the only Mariners announcer who can pronounce Eric Chavez’s last name? Even he only gets it right on the radio or when he doesn’t seem to be thinking about it. Are they covering for Niehaus’ forgetfulness?
Morse’s numbers are no longer good. Despite the nice night and the hot start he has an OPS a shade below .750, not acceptable in LF.
Rizz has a bit of the ‘ole Latin lover in him. I mean he has a bit of the Latin lover ways.
He’s had a lot of practice pronouncing names that end in ‘Z’?
Morse is trade bait for a starter. By the end of the year, his resume will include 3B, SS, and OF with lots of stars and sprinkles for solid numbers and a big dose of upside.
#43 – how do you think chavez’s last name should be pronounced?…
my understanding is that some time last winter he let it be known that his last name is pronounced cha-vez; not shavez… he said he didn’t want to correct anyone when he was still making a name for himself…
Okay, Joel has delivered a pretty decent imitation of a major league pitcher tonight, but after that last one, think discretion may be the better part of valor.
Phonetically, it is chah-ves
48: there’s no question it’s pronounced sha-VEZ, not CHA-vez. The Oakland TV announcers are consistent with the Oakland PA guy using the first pronunciation. Everybody but Rizzs on the Mariners payroll uses the second. Yesterday I heard Rizzs saying it right on the radio but wrong on TV.
Chavez has been a regular for them since 1999, which seems like plenty of time for the M’s announcers to figure it out.
The fact that Valle, who always sounds concussed to me, said it wrong ten seconds after Rizzs said it right was what prompted me to finally ask, but it’s bugged me for literally years.
It really is “CH” but the ch sounds different in spanish. “SH” kinda gets you there but not really.
Miguel Olivo just picked up the ball with his mask. For those of you who aren’t familiar with this violation of MLB rules….that’s a THREE base award for all Runners.
#51 I love the way Rizz queues up Val every time he wants him to add a little commentary. He drops “Val” in the middle of a sentence to let him know that a soon as the sentence is finished, it is his turn to talk. There is probably some guy in the TV trailer listing for the queue and then flipping the switch so Val sees a green light at just the right moment.
You don’t think there’s a guy standing in the booth who waits for the “val” cue to peel the duct tape off his mouth?
So much for my manager chops — Joel is not only back but doing pretty well in the 8th. And now he’s out of 8 with only 6 hits.
Hello next April?
Pineiro hitting 93 on the gun in the 8th
Heavy: the point is not ‘CH’ vs ‘SH’ sounds, it’s whether the emphasis goes on the first or the second half of the word. Granted, most people whose name is spelled Chavez pronounce it the way Niehaus does, but this Chavez does not, and I’d like to know if the M’s announcers are being rude or clueless.
It’s worse than some stupid Fox announcer mangling Ichiro’s name (“Ee-CHEER-ro”, feh), because the stupid Fox announcers haven’t covered ~25 Ichiro games a year for five years.
Valle just put on a clinic of mispronunciation on the play throwing out Beltre, after Rizzs said it correctly like three times in ten seconds.
Another quality start for Joel. He has been pretty good, with one very large exception, since he changed his delivery. And also changed his hair color.
I am amazed at the way the A’s fail to attract fans in the middle of a penant race.
Niehaus is now calling YuBet “Junebug”…
Boxing announcers seemed to have very little trouble pronouncing Julio Caesar Chavez.
The lack of fan support is astonishing In Seattle they’d be shooting each other for tickets if the Mariners were doing this well.
Eddie gets a chance to get his second save in as many nights.
They are really burning that Snoop Dog commercial.
63. I agree.
Why is Soriano warming up?
Eddi is looking good tonight. This is his best appearance in weeks.
I feel bad for grandparents everywhere when I see Lee with Snoop in the same commercial.
The pride of Federal Way argues the the K.
My understanding of Spanish pronunciation rules is that:
1) “z†is pronounced as “s,†not vocalized with a buzzing sound as it is in English, and
2) words ending in letters other than “s,†“nâ€Â, or vowels, are accented on the last syllable (in the absence of accent marks, such as in “MartÃÂnez†or “RamÃÂrez.â€Â
#63: The Coliseum is an awful park for a baseball game. The “good” seats are about a half-mile away from the foul lines.
That is the Guardado I remember.
Damn. What a nice game and what a nice series.
Winner!
#69 correct, just like you hear on HBO when the referrence Julio (hul-ee-oh) Caesar (say-sar) Chavez (chah-ves)
69: are you claiming that Niehaus, Fairly, and Valle are pronouncing it right, and everybody in Oakland is pronouncing it wrong? Because that’s slightly crazy.
So the A’s and Angels are in a tight pennant race, and the M’s lose 2 of 3 to the Angels and take (at least) 2 of 3 from the A’s. If this is payback for all those Septembers past, I’ll take it.
#74: I don’t know for sure, because Hispanic surnames tend to get their spellings Anglicized in MLB. Remember how long it took Joel to get his “ñ?” But unless his name would be spelled “Chávez” in Spanish, well, the rules are the rules. Spanish orthography and pronunciation, unlike English, is very regular.
#75: The A’s loss today helps the Yankees in the wildcard race. How do you feel now?
76: Just listen to the Oakland PA before Chavez comes to the plate. There is no question that the CHA-vez pronunciation is wrong. The Yahoo Sports roster does include the accent over the a in his name: http://sports.yahoo.com/teams/oak/roster
For some reason it doesn’t include it on his player page, but that’s probably just a database error.
ESPN’s player card says “shah-vez.” Give that all the credibility it deserves.
The Spanish pronounciation is irrelevant, because Eric Chavez doesn’t pronounce his name the Spanish way, but with an anglicization. The way the PA announcers say it is right. You’d think after six years the rest of the league could figure it out. (Of course, the announcers in Minnesota still call Ichiro “ee-she-ro.”)
Nice game by Joel, but no love on this thread.
ESPN also says David Ortiz’s name is pronounced “OR-tiz”. They’re clueless.
I’ve got family in Oakland/Berkeley, and the accurate pronunciation of Eric Chavez’s last name is not in question here — the M’s are wrong, Rizzs aside. I want to know why they’re still wrong after all these years.
Looking at Pineiro’s starts since he went “hands-up,” this is what I have found through his numbers.
ERA-3.68 K/9-5.08 K/BB-3.63 GB/FB-1.11
He has posted a respectable ERA through the seven starts, and his peripherable numbers are alright. He is not striking out too many batters (below the league average — has shown improvement in K’s past two starts), and has shown good control with a 3.63 K/BB. His GB/FB ratio seems like a mixed bag for now, he is pretty much right at the middle where he is not a true flyball or groundball pitcher.
When I looked to see who Pineiro can compare to if he keeps up his performance (still fairly small sample size) I thought Brad Radke’s numbers compare quite nicely. Of course, Radke is an extreme strike thrower who has better control than Pineiro, but the rest of his numbers are quite comparable.
My analysis is just amateur and not as good as the guys here at the USS (with fielding independent ERA, VORP, and other stuff) but by looking at some of Pineiro’s other numbers shows that he might not be completely useless and may be able to continue with the Mariners as a serviceable starter next year. A respectable #4/5 starter anyways.
What do you guys think?
#80: If the Yahoo player page at http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6114/ is correct with the “Chávez” spelling, then Eric has Anglicized the spelling of his name, not the pronunciation.
It’s what Latinos usually do.
I think the more important point regarding Pineiro for next year is his $6m salary, right? Too much for his level of performance, or as a 4-5 guy?
#83
One can only hope that this moderately positive recent trend carries over into next year, given his relatively inflated salary. If (and this is still a rather big if) Joel continues this success the rest of the way, do the M’s keep him or do they try to see what they can get in the trade market?
Given the uncertainty of next year’s staff, I think I’d probably hold on to him and hope he can continue his recent trend.
Late, but Chavez himself has gone back and forth on how he wants his name pronounced. And it has changed year to year over the PA (and radio). He is asked frequently, and usually says, “just call me “Shavy” [phonetic here, you see].
Miguel Olivo just picked up the ball with his mask. For those of you who aren’t familiar with this violation of MLB rules….that’s a THREE base award for all Runners.
And why is that such a felony? You would think it would be disadvantageous enough to have a glove on one hand and a mask in the tother with a ball in it he can’t throw.
Looks like the Mariners are taking this spoiler role seriously. Maybe I need to attend the season-ending series at Safeco. Perhaps I will see a division title won or lost by the Athletics on that first weekend in October.
Off topic for a second: Is anybody actually going to Singles Night on Saturday? I’ve thought about it, but since last weekend, I’ve leaned towards the Huskies’ home opener against Cal instead. Am I making the right/wrong choice here, or would it better to go to both? Money’s not an issue; the mental draining I usually feel after leaving Husky Stadium could very well be a issue.
Well, you’ll have a tough time getting a drink in Montlake, that’s what always keeps me away.
That, and my general disinterest in ‘football’.
Jimbo Jones said: “most people whose name is spelled Chavez pronounce it the way Niehaus does, but this Chavez does not, and I’d like to know if the M’s announcers are being rude or clueless.”
as Palo Alto Dave has mentioned, pronunciation has gone both ways through the years, but I believe the common acceptance now IS that he pronounces it like the ravine … however, around MLB you hear it pronounced every which way by PA guys, by announcers, by tv/radio talking heads… I don’t know if it is because Eric himself has been so relaxed about it or what. I don’t think it is any sort of intentional rudeness by anyone, including the M’s. IIRC, Huytler tries to say ChaVEZ on the PA & the radio and he has mentioned before about checking with guys on their names.
FWIW, Amaury Pi-Gonzales says Eric pronounces it wrong
http://www.loveofthegameproductions.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=180
Re: Miguel Olivo’s mask, I’m trying to find an account of that play. In yesterday’s Padres game he did commit two two-base errors (including intentionlly throwing a live ball into the dugout), but I can’t find any account of the mask incident.
I know Dave has written about the “New” Piniero not pitching as well as his numbers, but how do people think he is figuring into plans for next year? It sounds like his velocity is back, which should help his value, but should the team look to him as a solid starter next year, or should he be moved if somebody is willing to take his salary? At $6M next year, I’ll guess he will be near impossible to move, but I am wondering if the M’s should try to move him. It would be nice if the M’s signed two starters, but I’m guessing only one will be on the way (unless the other is a NRI, ala Sele). How do people think of him as the 3rd or 4th starter?
You would think it would be disadvantageous enough to have a glove on one hand and a mask in the tother with a ball in it he can’t throw.
A catcher’s mask looks suspiciously like one of those jai-alai wicker basket thingies that they use to throw the ball 180 mph. I’m just saying.
Mike Morse on steroids again. It just continues.
Pirates fire McClendon. Really, is Hargrove any better? And he had twice the payroll! I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be a good idea to just put a revolving door on the M’s manager position. Fire one every year for poor performance until you get one who actually motivates the players and makes good game decisions that leads to better team performance. Next up: Larry Dierker (my favorite choice of the moment). After that, give Rohn a try.
95 – Where in the heck are you seeing that? Or are you just speculating?
82 – Little does ESPN realize it’s pronounced ‘Ar-e-os’
Never mind found it.
Not sure if this is how to put in a link.
KJR read Morse’ statement where he acknowledges that his minor league bust was from having used steroids to help heal a torn thigh muscle, panicking that he’d lose his career. He says that the 2nd minor league hit this year and the major league bust were both for the remnants of the stuff in his system (the tests apparently have shown decreased amounts each time, the last being trace) and per KJR, Gammons has a quote that the arbitrator has acknowledged that Morse has now been punished three times for one infraction. He still upheld the suspension though.
Morse thread:
http://ussmariner.com/?p=2964
A 3.63 K/BB ratio is indicative of talent much better than that typically associated with a 4/5 starter. If Pineiro keeps that ratio up, he’ll be more than worth the 6+ million he’ll cost. If.
Regardless, the Ms are going to look to trade him this offseason. What kind of deal they should take is what its in question. I am of the opinion that in this case, avoid a salary dump. I would rather not trade him unless something of actual value came along.