Game 153, Mariners at Blue Jays

Dave · September 22, 2005 at 3:50 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Joel Pineiro vs Gustavo Chacin.

Chacin is a rookie of the year candidate thanks to a 3.51 ERA, but in a few years, when looking back on the incoming crop of young players, I don’t expect people to be mentioning Chacin in the same sentence with guys like Felix, Huston Street, or Scott Kazmir. His Fielding Independant ERA is 4.32, which isn’t bad, but isn’t spectacular, either. He’s a flyball pitcher who has marginal control and doesn’t miss many bats. Not exactly the skillset of a superstar in the making.

But, hey, he’s having a nice year. Let’s see if it continues tonight.

Comments

175 Responses to “Game 153, Mariners at Blue Jays”

  1. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 3:54 pm

    A month ago Chacin was easily my RoY favourite. At this point I think he ranks behind Johnny Gomes (among others).

  2. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 3:55 pm

    And Chacin doesn’t have eyebrows. Pitching through that kind of disability has to count for something.

  3. Jeff Sullivan on September 22nd, 2005 3:55 pm

    Regardless of who deserves it most, Huston Street’s taking that award with friggin’ ease.

  4. Benno on September 22nd, 2005 3:57 pm

    Ahhh, Scott Kazmir. Isn’t he the one of the players that Billy Beane made fun of during the infamous “Moneyball” draft? We shall see if his health holds up.

    Not too much of a draw for tonights game. Hopefully Pineiro will continue to pitch well. Still a fan, don’t want to see him get moved, but I understand why people don’t like him.

  5. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 3:57 pm

    You gotta love those Chacin v Chacon matchups when NY plays Toronto. It’s already happened twice this year.

  6. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 4:05 pm

    Until Chacon played Toronto, I had ho idea how to pronounce his name.

    I figured it was like Chaisson.

  7. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 4:12 pm

    Betancourt batting 2nd? hmmm

  8. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 4:14 pm

    Grover seems like like Betty batting second against lefties.

  9. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 4:16 pm

    At a 3 ball count on Ibanez, Yu-bet should not have been caught off base.

  10. Hunter on September 22nd, 2005 4:18 pm

    Yahoo! sports made it sound more exciting

    “Y. Betancourt caught stealing, pitcher to first to shortstop to first to shortstop to pitcher “

  11. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 4:19 pm

    The classic 1-3-6-3-6-1 pickoff.

  12. Hunter on September 22nd, 2005 4:21 pm

    Oh man, I am rolling here in my office…luckily no one is around

    I had visions of an amazingly grand trick play that ended with the pitcher tagging out YuBet.

  13. Long Suffering on September 22nd, 2005 4:23 pm

    on the bright side, we made him throw 30 pitches and continue to draw about a walk per K on the offensive side.

  14. robbbbbb on September 22nd, 2005 4:24 pm

    7&8: Well, you can at least make a case for it. YB’s splits:

    vs. Left: 297/333/541
    vs. Right: 246/266/326

    (Note: Small Sample Size. That line against lefties comprises 39 plate appearances.)

  15. Smegmalicious on September 22nd, 2005 4:25 pm

    Is anyone else nervous that Ichiro isn’t going to get to 200 hits?

  16. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 4:26 pm

    30 pitches plus a couple of throws on the Yu-bet rundown. hehe

  17. Ralph Malph on September 22nd, 2005 4:27 pm

    Hey everybody, it’s Bad Joel!

  18. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 4:28 pm

    For a guy who doesn’t walk much, I sure like Vernon Wells as a hitter. Wish he was a Mariner.

  19. Greybear on September 22nd, 2005 4:29 pm

    17 Not necessarily. Adams’ hit was a golf shot and the pitch to Catalonotto wasn’t that bad either.

  20. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 4:29 pm

    I believe Ichiro will get 200 with several to spare.

  21. Ralph Malph on September 22nd, 2005 4:31 pm

    8 pitches

    1 strike
    1 foul
    3 balls
    3 singles

    We’ll see.

  22. Ralph Malph on September 22nd, 2005 4:32 pm

    11 pitches

    2 strikes
    2 fouls
    3 balls
    3 singles
    1 double

  23. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 4:35 pm

    “For a guy who doesn’t walk much, I sure like Vernon Wells as a hitter. Wish he was a Mariner.”

    He’ll probably win another gold glove, too.

  24. ray on September 22nd, 2005 4:37 pm

    The M’s throw out someone at home instead of being thrown out! I’m impressed.

    Do you think Ichiro will cry (and/or quit baseball — the whole shame thing) if he doesn’t get his 200 hits?

  25. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 4:38 pm

    Rios is an interesting hitter. He has a compact inside out swing that has very little power. But, if he sees a pitch coming he brings out the slow-developing looping swing with lots of power.

  26. Ralph Malph on September 22nd, 2005 4:40 pm

    Someone had a theory a couple of weeks ago that pitching the day after Felix was inspiring Joel to pitch better. I’m not sure that theory is holding up today.

  27. ray on September 22nd, 2005 4:40 pm

    It’s unfortunate but it seems this guy will be #1 starter next year (due to seniority). Maybe the M’s should sign Brown. ;)

  28. Kyle on September 22nd, 2005 4:41 pm

    This…This is not pretty

  29. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 4:41 pm

    Okay, if that pitch to Gross was where Gameday says it was, and it was a ground ball to Ichiro, how did Lopez not get to it?

  30. Dan on September 22nd, 2005 4:41 pm

    Looks like Joel picked up where Eddie left off, lucky for us.

  31. Greybear on September 22nd, 2005 4:41 pm

    Ok Ralph…I stand corrected. *sigh* I’m going to go watch something cheerful…Hurricane Rita.

  32. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 4:42 pm

    And the Blue Jays bat around in the first.

  33. bp on September 22nd, 2005 4:43 pm

    this is reeaaaaaaaaaaallly pathetic

  34. Shizane on September 22nd, 2005 4:44 pm

    Is it good when you give up 7 hits/5 runs (and counting) to the first 9 batters you face in your first inning? I didn’t think so……….

    GET THOSE HANDS UP JOEL!!!!!!!!!

  35. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 4:44 pm

    It’s actually impressive that Pineiro only threw 34 pitches. He faced TEN GUYS.

  36. Deacon Blues on September 22nd, 2005 4:45 pm

    Did Pineiro forget to keep his arms up?

  37. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 4:45 pm

    Man, I can really do without these fan appreciation commercials.

  38. ray on September 22nd, 2005 4:45 pm

    26, I think we are seeing the reverse effect: Joel feeling he will never be as good as Felix, and is just mediocre.

    Joel: You told me I was ACE material
    BP: Well, it’s just that I’d had never really seen a good pitcher up close until Felix. (thinking in his head: so that’s what pitching really is..)
    Joel: Hello, BP, are you okay?
    BP: Sorry, flashback
    Joel: Anyway, as I was saying…
    BP: Sorry Joel no time to talk; I’ve got to go ask Felix how he throws that Royal curve. Have you seen it! It’s awesome!
    Joel: (pouting) ya, I wanted to be the ACE.

  39. LB on September 22nd, 2005 4:46 pm

    I believe Dave got it right when he said, Joel Pineiro is not “back”…. He has basically turned himself into Ryan Franklin, a contact strike-throwing machine who can piece together some good starts when the ball stays in the yard.

    http://ussmariner.com/?p=2987

    I love strikeouts. Every fifth day, I may get to see some. Sigh.

    I have to wonder, where is talkbaseball to defend Joel when he’s sh1tting the bed like this? And what’s happened to Joel’s WHIP?

  40. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

    Well, Joel did K a guy without issuing a walk.

    Along with his pitch efficiency, I think that means he’s just really easy to hit today.

  41. ray on September 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

    Woohoo! Game over early! Now I can go do something productive today.

  42. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 4:49 pm

    And a nice 10-pitch inning from the rookie just to make Pineiro feel more inadequate.

  43. Deanna on September 22nd, 2005 4:49 pm

    Gaaaaah, I decided to go check the score on a whim. Gamecast shows 5-0. This is gross — no pun intended. Ugh.

  44. ray on September 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

    Hey they are making the Jay’s pitcher work: 10 pitches in the second!

  45. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 4:51 pm

    Deanna, Fairly has informed us that Gross was a former QB for Auburn.

  46. LB on September 22nd, 2005 4:51 pm

    #40: He hadn’t K’d the guy while I was typing. You’re right, I should look at the bright side and consider Joel’s K/9IP rate so far tonight.

  47. ray on September 22nd, 2005 4:51 pm

    Hey, look on the bright side. We may get to see Meche again or at least Harris. 8)

  48. LB on September 22nd, 2005 4:54 pm

    #45: Gabe Gross hits more like a QB than a LF-er. Career OPS = .642 (but trending upward, at least).

  49. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 4:57 pm

    If he had the arm for a QB, why does he play LF? Gross, that is.

  50. Russ on September 22nd, 2005 4:59 pm

    Is 6,000,000 to much for the M’s to eat??? My gawd that is flat out an unacceptable outing. Kids in HS get pulled faster then that.

  51. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 5:01 pm

    Because Rios has a cannon.

  52. troy on September 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

    Rusty, Grady Sizemore was in line to be a college QB at UW, and in baseball his arm is his weakest tool. QB does not necessarily = strong arm.

  53. Red Ed on September 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

    What, no comments in 20 minutes? Nobody else thinks the M’s can score 5 runs here?

    Oh right, games are 9 innings long, not 45.

  54. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

    50, I think the female fan base might get a little upset at letting one of their more handsome players go, lol. Speaking of females, I’ve heard Joel’s wife is pretty good looking. Any truth to the rumors?

  55. Evan on September 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

    I don’t know. Does he have a giant tattoo of his wife anywhere?

  56. Red Ed on September 22nd, 2005 5:05 pm

    Whoops.. guess the page didn’t actually reload after all. I blame whoever severed all those phone lines to the entire Moscow-Pullman area.

  57. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:05 pm

    So, it looks like Ichiro has started his I’m-so-wound-up-tight-because-I’m-getting-close-to-200-hits funk. It’s unfortunate for him because that may be his downfall to getting 200 — so few game left.

  58. msb on September 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

    sheesh. I literally walked from the U to Aurora during the 1st inning. I got about three more streets in the M’s half of the 2nd.

    I blame Rizzy, he was waaay to proud of the Ms for making Chacin work in the top of the 1st, a whole 29 pitches with nothing to show for it.

  59. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

    YuBet is so far the offensive hero of the game: 1 hit, 1 walk. Now that is funny.

  60. Deanna on September 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

    55 – haha. nice.

    54 – I personally don’t think Pineiro is that good-looking. Then again, I don’t think anyone on the Mariners is particularly great-looking. In some cases, like Meche, they used to be cute, then they had their spirits broken and became haggard shadows of their former selves.

  61. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:08 pm

    How is “Chacin” pronounced anyway?
    Also, still waiting word about Joel’s wife…anyone?

  62. LB on September 22nd, 2005 5:09 pm

    #61: shaw-SEEN.

  63. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:09 pm

    Okay, so we’ve heard from one female on Piniero… any others?

  64. Roger on September 22nd, 2005 5:10 pm

    Does he have a giant tattoo of his wife anywhere?

    Wait, wasn’t Tattoo under four feet tall?

  65. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:12 pm

    62, thank you. At first, I thought it was Shasheen which in Japanese sounds like “strike-out” which would be a good name for a pitcher.

    Wow! what got into Piniero. 3IP, 4 Ks

  66. Gomez on September 22nd, 2005 5:13 pm

    I’m not a female, but Pineiro looks like the guy that changes your oil when you take your car in. Of course, the guy who installed my cable yesterday looks like Miguel Olivo, but what’s it to anyone?

    Good to see he settled down… five runs and seven hits too late.

  67. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:14 pm

    Wow, the PC difference btw Piniero and Chacin is only 6 at the beginning of 4. Almost the difference in the score. Must be some cosmic significance.

  68. lisa on September 22nd, 2005 5:15 pm

    63 – pineiro doesn’t do it for me; jeremy reed’s more my style.

  69. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:15 pm

    66, if you have seen “The One” it makes a difference.

  70. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm

    So 68, then is it “Chicks dig the guy who catches the long ball”?

  71. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:18 pm

    Since the game is out of reach, I’d like to see Grover do some crazy things like have Sexson steal 2nd.

  72. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 5:18 pm

    or, “Chicks dig guys with big ears?”

  73. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:18 pm

    Oh, ground-rule double. Bad omen for the M’s.

  74. lisa on September 22nd, 2005 5:20 pm

    70 – i won’t deny it. reed for his catches, shiggy for his delivery.

  75. Deanna on September 22nd, 2005 5:21 pm

    65 – if you care, the word for photograph is shasshin (which, incidentally, is how I also pronounced Chacin). Strikeout is san shin.

    how about “Chicks dig guys that don’t suck at baseball”? Looks aren’t everything…

  76. Greybear on September 22nd, 2005 5:22 pm

    Be still my heart

  77. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:23 pm

    75, I know, but strike out has more relevance to baseball.

    On your second comment: then why are you a M’s fan. JK ;)

  78. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

    I love it: CBS gamecast has two “in-play” hits for Lopez. I guess two singles equal one double. Go Lopez!

  79. Pete Livengood on September 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

    Maybe they’ll make a game of it yet . . ..

    That was a nice piece of high-ball hitting by Lopez there (even though I’d rather see him lay off that pitch).

  80. Gomez on September 22nd, 2005 5:26 pm

    71. Crazy things Grover can do with the game out of reach:
    - Not pinch hit Hansen for Torrealba
    - Have Sexson and Beltre bunt runners ahead
    - Turn to Moyer and say, “Jamie, warm up!”
    - Crank call Jim Slaton in the pen.
    - Tell BP to tell Joel to plunk the next batter, and then charge the plate.
    - Order a pizza
    - Buy every last bottle of Labatt’s in Rogers Centre and hold a single elimination drinking contest between everyone on the bench.
    - Get on the roof of the dugout and BOOGIE.
    - Pull his guys off the field, send them to the clubhouse, then walk out to the umpire, say, “9-0, bitch. Forfeit: it’s all theirs. Thanks for the BS calls.” Then bitchslap him, and follow his boys into the clubhouse.

  81. Deanna on September 22nd, 2005 5:26 pm

    77 – I’m a Mariners fan by residence. You know, like when I got my Pennsylvania drivers’ license changed to Washington, I also had to get my baseball tickets changed, etc… I’d only been to like three AL games ever before I moved to Seattle.

  82. Deanna on September 22nd, 2005 5:28 pm

    5-3 is not the same as the hopeless pit of despair we were in a little while ago, at least.

  83. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:28 pm

    I like Ichiro but boy he really is sucking today. Any visuals on his swings?

  84. msb on September 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

    Chacin is one homely sunovagun.

    If you really want to see what Shirley Piniero looks like, just donate some money to Mariners Care & get a cookbook or two at your local Mariners Team Store.

    Rizz killed the rally. JoeJessica steps to the plate, and Rick starts talking home runs. please. I’ve got to switch to Dave.

  85. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

    Deanna, did you previously follow the Phillie or Pirates or neither?

  86. troy on September 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

    Yes, 0 for 3 is really sucking.

    *shakes head*

    The steady overreaction of baseball fans blows my mind.

  87. bp on September 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

    Joel has certainly settled down nicely after that implosion in the 1st

  88. msb on September 22nd, 2005 5:31 pm

    it really IS a return to the Old Joel Piniero– you remember, the one who would have ‘that one bad inning’?

  89. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:32 pm

    80, too funny (CLOL), but I have to disagree with you about pizza. I think he does that all the time anyway. The Dancing Homer bit I’d pay to see!

  90. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 5:33 pm

    Yu-bet walks!

  91. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:34 pm

    sorry, 86, I was including (not out loud) yesterday’s game which would make him 0-8. And I know it doesn’t seem like much but it is relative. An 0-8 for a guy like Mendoza is super but for Ichiro it’s terrible.

  92. Mitch on September 22nd, 2005 5:35 pm

    You guys put so much emphasis on SO and Joel has 6 ks and 5 ER in 3 2/3. Now Dave, tell me is this promising by your standards. I’d rather have 0 runs and 6 ks. But at least we have 1 of the 2. If he does not give up anymore runs I think we have a shot. By the way how hard is he throwing the heater.

  93. bp on September 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm

    good call to hold him…he would have gotten hosed

  94. msb on September 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm

    hopefully Ibanez didn’t mess up his hammy on that stop

  95. Pete Livengood on September 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

    Raul looked pissed about the “go-go-go-go-stop” sign at third. Good thing he was held up, though, ’cause he was really chugging.

  96. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

    Yu-Bet is being a textbook #2 hitter. This game is turning out to be a bit strange.

  97. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

    Yeah!

    I didn’t think a baserunner could be slower than John Olerud but I think Sexson might be slower.

  98. bp on September 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

    THATS what im talking about…what defecit?

  99. Gomez on September 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

    89. HA, my bad. I totally forgot about his 5th inning pizza routine.

    However, he may be onto something with Betancourt in the 2 spot. A hit and TWO WALKS in 3 PA’s. And he has yet to really slump from that spot. Sample size, I know, but STILL.

  100. Ralph Malph on September 22nd, 2005 5:38 pm

    Hate to quibble, but a textbook #2 hitter wouldn’t have gotten picked off in the 1st.

  101. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:39 pm

    Tie game. I can’t believe.

  102. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 5:40 pm

    Mitch, DIPS theory generally holds for larger sample sizes than just one game’s line score.

  103. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:40 pm

    100, you’re quibbling. To quote the great Willy Wonka don’t quibble.

  104. Gomez on September 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm

    Don’t call it a comeback!

    Man, and the M’s just seemed done after that disaster 1st inning. Good stuff, baby. Baby steps.

  105. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:42 pm

    And Joel actually has a much lower pitch count than Chacin. I’d argue this is the old Joel: screws up or around in the 1st or 2nd inning then settle down the rest of the game.

  106. Pete Livengood on September 22nd, 2005 5:44 pm

    92, Mitch — the emphasis here is not so much on K’s alone as it is on the “three true outcomes” that can tell you about how a pitcher is doing on the things he can control (K’s, walks, home runs) independent of defense, one of which is the strikeout. It it isn’t a tool for looking retrospectively and seeing whether a pitcher is performing well, it is used to look prospectively at how he will do in the future.

    [And Joel wasn't striking people out in that 1st inning, was he? That came later, when he started shutting people down.]

  107. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:45 pm

    McGowen…didn’t he used to be a game show host? Man the Jays really have the market cornered for pitchers with interesting names: yesterday Bush, League; today, Picture and Game show host.

  108. msb on September 22nd, 2005 5:47 pm

    eh, Catalanotto. frankly I half-expected it to be him to break up the no-no yesterday….

  109. Ralph Malph on September 22nd, 2005 5:47 pm

    I don’t find McGowan to be all that interesting of a name.

  110. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 5:48 pm

    Joel did get 1 K in the first inning, but he had 10 PA’s (opportunties) to get that strikeout.

  111. Mitch on September 22nd, 2005 5:48 pm

    Bad innings happen if Joel goes seven gives up 5 runs and ks 8 I would be good w/ that. It just seems like so many of you guys on the USSM are Joel haters and don’t want him to succeed. And yes I may be a little bias being a big Joel fan, but my point is if he can throw 92-95 mph he will be a legit #3 starter.

  112. troy on September 22nd, 2005 5:49 pm

    Nobody hates Joel. I’d LOVE for him to be a true #3 pitcher. But all the evidence says that ain’t gonna happen. Being a fan is one thing. Lieing to yourself is quite another.

  113. Rusty on September 22nd, 2005 5:51 pm

    How exactly is Mitch lying to himself by hoping that Joel comes back as a #3 starter?

  114. Mitch on September 22nd, 2005 5:51 pm

    So you are telling me that w/ Joels + curve if he can throw 92-95 you think he won’t be a legit #3. If he does this he will be successful, if not then he won’t. But wait until next year and I will be saying I told you so.

  115. Ralph Malph on September 22nd, 2005 5:53 pm

    You would be good with 5 runs in 7 innings? That is an ERA of 6.49. I am not good with that. You don’t have to be a Joel hater to say that doesn’t cut it. I don’t care if he throws 192 mph.

    Having said that, I am not at all a Joel hater. I expect him to be starting for the M’s next year, and his 1st inning today is not typical of his recent performances. I hope he pitches like innings 2-5 today all the time.

  116. Dave in Palo Alto on September 22nd, 2005 5:53 pm

    Mitch, everybody here would be delighted to see Pineiro as a legit #3 starter (whatever that means). But why do you take offense if others think that is unlikely?

  117. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:54 pm

    I like Joel, just not when he’s pitching. JK If he succeeds it will only be a big bonus for next year’s rotation. Hey about about that Brown guy… According to Dave, he would upgrade the rotation and come cheaply.

  118. Deanna on September 22nd, 2005 5:55 pm

    85 – both, Phillies as a kid and Pirates while in college.

    This rules! I had to go talk to a coworker for a bit, I come back and the score is 5-5. Awesome.

    At this rate Joel’s only got 2 more innings in him… maybe.

  119. ray on September 22nd, 2005 5:56 pm

    So, if by some chance the M’s are leading in the 9th should Eddie pitch?

  120. Mitch on September 22nd, 2005 5:56 pm

    Yeah Kevin Brown’s a great idea old w/ a terrible ERA, just great.

  121. The Other Tom on September 22nd, 2005 6:00 pm

    Ichiro has been an out machine for the last couple of games. What’s up with that?

  122. msb on September 22nd, 2005 6:02 pm

    #114– Mitch said: “So you are telling me that w/ Joels + curve if he can throw 92-95 you think he won’t be a legit #3. ”

    um, are you maybe thinking of Gil? because I don’t think Joel has ever regularly gotten his fastball up around 95 …

  123. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:05 pm

    120, I was just joking because this blog has that debate going on now with Dave strongly advocating his signing.

  124. Matt on September 22nd, 2005 6:05 pm

    Dave in palo alto, you listen to KNBR right? You know a mowgowen. who finally got the 7-10 shift by the way?

  125. Mitch on September 22nd, 2005 6:06 pm

    I said 92-95 and yes Joel used to top out @ 95, just not consistently. I am looking for 92-94 consistently and an occasional 95 mph heater when needed. If we get this he’ll be solid.

  126. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:06 pm

    121, see comment 57

  127. Dave in Palo Alto on September 22nd, 2005 6:07 pm

    I only listen to KNBR if the Giants are on while I’m driving.

  128. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:10 pm

    127, do you live in East Palo Alto?

  129. Dave in Palo Alto on September 22nd, 2005 6:10 pm

    I do not.

  130. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:12 pm

    Oh McGowen, he of ERA 7,32 and 17 BB, why do thy scorn the M’s.

  131. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:13 pm

    McGowen is the 206th best pitcher in the MLB. No wonder the M’s are having a rough time.

  132. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:17 pm

    Thornton = go to Dennys early

  133. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:19 pm

    Okay, Beltre rally starter! Where’s the ignitor when you need him?

  134. Long Suffering on September 22nd, 2005 6:23 pm

    Joel was hitting 94 regularly a few starts ago. I don’t think 92-95 is an unlikely prospect.

    Here’s what I will take every single outing. 7IP, 8H, 0BB, 8K. The runs will fluctuate, but if he did that everytime he’d be an ace.

    I disagree with the literal words Mitch said of people being against Pineiro, but you do have to admit, warranted or not, there’s a LOT of pessimism at this blog. And no, it’s not all “just going by the numbers.” stuff, some of it is, but there’s definately a pervasive sense of failure around here.

  135. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:29 pm

    Pessimism, yes. Sense of failure, yes. Why, everyone knows. On the brighter side, hmmm, there is a bighter side….

  136. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:30 pm

    If Joel can just induce a double play.

  137. Long Suffering on September 22nd, 2005 6:32 pm

    On another note, I firstguessed the idea of letting Joel pitch the 8th.

  138. LB on September 22nd, 2005 6:32 pm

    Red, at the beginning of the inning: “Joel has great velocity, still throwing 92.”

    Yes, but his command was slipping, as he issued the 3-1 walk to Koskie. Then he gave up the dinger, then a hard hit ball to Gross. I wish sometimes they’d stop showing mph’s for pitches, or at least block the view of the readout from the broadcast booth.

  139. Matt on September 22nd, 2005 6:34 pm

    they should have taken him out at 110 pitches….

  140. Deanna on September 22nd, 2005 6:35 pm

    sigh. I wondered if Gamecast was just laggy and Pineiro was really still out there… then this happens. Ugh.

  141. LB on September 22nd, 2005 6:36 pm

    Whoever thinks this blog is too negative needs only to visit http://marineroptimist.blogspot.com: The Mariners Will Win the World Series in 2005

  142. Long Suffering on September 22nd, 2005 6:36 pm

    and of course, Cliff Lee has to go give up a grand slam to make my evening worse.

  143. Long Suffering on September 22nd, 2005 6:38 pm

    How is Santiago a better hitter than Torrealba?

  144. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:39 pm

    Okay, now the game is over. Oh, yea the bright side… the M’s split the series and did not get swept.

    And What can you say about Grover, come hell or high water he wants to get a W for his pitcher. Bright side two: Eddie can’t blow this game.

  145. Saul on September 22nd, 2005 6:40 pm

    I hate Mike Hargrove.

  146. Gomez on September 22nd, 2005 6:42 pm

    143. Better question is, why can’t Torrealba hit for himself in the 9th? He’s not Barry Bonds but he’s not exactly Pat Borders either.

  147. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:42 pm

    Oh Rios of ye little strength (9 HR in 460 AB) why do thy scorn the M’s.

  148. Saul on September 22nd, 2005 6:42 pm

    Wait, nevermind. Brilliant tactical move by Hargrove.

  149. LB on September 22nd, 2005 6:43 pm

    #143: That answers your question. 21 HBP against 713 career AB’s for Santiago vs only 8 HBP for Torrealba against 699 career AB’s.

  150. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:44 pm

    See Santiago can hit! So basically the M’s get beat by a crappy pitcher in Mcgowen and a mediocre hitter in Rios. What’s new?

  151. Long Suffering on September 22nd, 2005 6:45 pm

    Hargrove’s brilliance with numbers is just so devine that we were fooled by the convential stats. That, or he didn’t get his daily intake of sausage.

  152. Long Suffering on September 22nd, 2005 6:45 pm

    Santiago can’t hit, he can get hit, but not hit.

  153. Gomez on September 22nd, 2005 6:46 pm

    Re: Pineiro… a general rule of thumb worth following is that the starter should only face the lineup 3 times, i.e. 27 batters. By this logic, Joel should have been pulled after 7, which was only one or two over 27.

  154. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:47 pm

    Ichiro is now 0-10 and not helping himself.

  155. LB on September 22nd, 2005 6:47 pm

    #150: Every hitter in that Toronto lineup is mediocre at best. Hillenbrand is the only guy with an OPS over .800, and that’s only barely over at .808.

  156. Gomez on September 22nd, 2005 6:47 pm

    151. HAHA… I guess they put mushrooms on his 5th inning pizza instead of sausage.

    And here we go again: Hansen the Out Machine for Betancourt, who’s reached base 3 times but apparently is not allowed to bat during a 9th inning rally under any circumstances.

  157. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:48 pm

    152, it’s only a joke. The pun can’t very well work if someone says He can get hit!

  158. LB on September 22nd, 2005 6:49 pm

    #156: You forget, no doubt, that YB’d have to face a proven close in the 9th.

  159. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:50 pm

    156, Grover is playing head games: let’s YuBet hit in the Angels game (situation had more pressure) but not this one… the man is a CERTIFIED genius.

  160. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:53 pm

    I wonder what the record is for fielder’s indifference in a season. Ichiro has two in two games.

  161. ray on September 22nd, 2005 6:54 pm

    Did anyone expect the M’s to take 3 of 4? I’m just happy if they don’t get swept. Good night ya’ll

  162. LB on September 22nd, 2005 6:58 pm

    #156,158: Edit: Of course, “proven close” should read “proven closer.”

  163. Gomez on September 22nd, 2005 7:06 pm

    158. Got your point, LB. It makes sense, though, at this point in the season, and given how well he’s hit lately, why not give YuBet a chance to see what he can do against a good closer or three? It’s not like Hansen the Pinch Hitting Veteran has done all that much better.

  164. msb on September 22nd, 2005 7:23 pm

    hmm. wierd. M’s have had 7 LOB each game in Toronto.

  165. msb on September 22nd, 2005 7:28 pm

    interesting factoid from Ms Drayer. Pineiro is not flying to Detroit, he is flying back to Seattle as Mrs. P is having her baby tomorrow. He did not use it as an excuse, but Drayer opined he might have been distracted early on.

  166. argh on September 22nd, 2005 8:22 pm

    I think it’s a miracle the M’s did as well as they did tonight. Afterall, the first 4+ innings they had to face Morpheus on the mound. And, we got no Agent Smith in the line-up.

  167. Dave on September 22nd, 2005 10:03 pm

    The blog has a “sense of failure”?

    The last two years, the team’s record is 129-186. Last year, they were the third worst team in baseball. This year, they are the fifth worst team in baseball.

    Have you considered that the blog may just have a sense of realism? The team has been a total failure for the past two years. Perhaps you’d be happier if we just ignored the fact that the team is terrible and discussed only the positives?

  168. troy on September 22nd, 2005 10:11 pm

    Well said Dave. And I for one appreciate the honesty and realism as opposed to being spoonfed plastic “optimism” that has as much chance of actually happening as Jose Canseco does of landing a job as Bret Boone’s agent. Keep giving it to us straight. There are plenty of sugarcoated places to visit if you want to believe Joel is an ace and Bloomquist is the future and Fairly is a decent announcer.

  169. Kelly M on September 22nd, 2005 10:31 pm

    A few weeks ago we were having a thread about young players around the league, and the name Ryan Howard came up. I looked up his stats and offered that he was terrible against lefties.

    I now want to revise and extend my remarks and give credit where credit is due.

    Last night Mr. Howard hit a grand slam off – you guessed it – a southpaw. His OBP is now .170.

    Stay tuned for this year’s Winter GM Meetings where the Phillies will reveal their strategy for next season.

    Keep Thome, trade Howard, and try to win it all next year.
    Keep Howard, attempt to trade Thome’s bad back and his mammoth salary ($12.5 in 2006, $14 in 2007, $14 in 2008) in exchange for prospects.

    I’ll point out that Phillies LHP Cole Hamels is one of the top ranked prospects in the game even though this year has been a waste: started the year with a broken hand from a fight, then had a bad back midway through the year that shut him down for a month. Other than Hamels, the Phillies have nothing else in their farm system for 2006 when their nucleus of Thome/Abreu/Burrell/Utley will continue to be productive.

    Baseball Prospectus 2005 says Howard’s comps include Sam Horn, Franklin Stubbs, Carlos Delgado, and Derrek Lee. The key is whether or not Howard can improve his walk rate. Had he played a full season (extrapolated stats from ESPN) this year he would have drawn 50 walks with an OBP of .353 and 35 HR.

    Sexson’s line this year: 70 walks, .352 OBP, and 39 HR.

    So, if you could get 1B Howard and Hamels for a bonafide major league starting pitcher + a minor league pitcher, AND if you could get a haul of other prospects for Sexson, would you do a deal like that?

  170. Colm on September 22nd, 2005 10:51 pm

    Where are we going to find a spare major league starting pitcher? Last time I looked at the M’s rotation, we had only one, and an assembly of scrubs (apologies to Mr Moyer).

  171. LB on September 22nd, 2005 11:57 pm

    #171: It seems to me that it would have to depend on the “haul of other prospects” you’d get back for Sexson. And you’d have to look on it as part of a long-term plan (think Cleveland), meaning you’d ‘fess up to the fans that the 2006 team is likely to be no better than this year’s model.

    Does Bill Bavasi have the luxury of that kind of time? Cleveland told their fans after 2001 that they were not going to contend for years, and the fans rewarded them by not buying tickets to games. I doubt Bavasi can keep faith of upper management for three lean years.

    It would also have to depend on whether you could convince the Phillies that Joel Piñeiro was a “bonafide major league starting pitcher.” Ooh, boy, would his numbers look ugly in that little league park they play in in Philly.

  172. John D. on September 23rd, 2005 1:12 am

    On Wednesday night, I heard Mike Blowers say-I hope that he wasn’t talking about Felix–”He’s neither a fly-ball pitcher, nor a ground ball-pitcher; I’d say he’s 50/50.”
    Isn’t 50/50 (1.0 to 1.0) the accepted defnition of a fly-ball pitcher?
    [I'm telling you. The inmates are running the asylum.]

  173. Goose on September 23rd, 2005 1:38 am

    171

    Yeh but look at Cleveland now, they are a powerhouse, who not only has a good chance of making the playoffs this year, and possibly winning it all, but stands a hell of a chance of being a powerhouse for the next 5 years.

    I’d take 2-3 more years of this if we can produce teams like the Indians have the last 15 years.

  174. Alexey on September 23rd, 2005 3:54 am

    Good article. Very interesting and useful. Thanks.

  175. John D. on September 23rd, 2005 7:57 pm

    Re: (# 172) GROUNDBALL/FLYBALL PITCHER – There seem to be a couple of Greater-than signs ( > ) missing. (That @#$%^& secretary.)
    It should read: FLYBALL PITCHER = FB/GB of > 1.0.
    Anyway, I take full responsibility–whatever that means.
    And I’m trying to put this behind me–whatever that means.