Juan Pierre

Jeff · December 2, 2005 at 10:15 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Another item of note in the Morosi article that I think merits its own thread:

The Mariners have inquired about the availability of Marlins outfielder Juan Pierre and left-handed pitcher Ron Villone, a former Mariner. Pierre’s arrival would displace Jeremy Reed in center field and create a curious scenario at the top of the order. Pierre is regarded as a true leadoff man, and Ichiro Suzuki has a stated preference to bat first.

Boy, Ron Villone and Juan Pierre? Christmas came early this year! With extra coal!

Morosi hits on a few of the problems with this — Jeremy Reed is suddenly a man without a country, Ichiro becomes startled at the acquisition of Ichiro Lite — but let me drop one more. Pierre’s arm would conjure up images of Randy Winn’s halcyon days.

More to the point, Pierre doesn’t seem to fill any of the team’s stated needs. Why would the team give up something presumably of value for him when other matters are more pressing?

There are only two positives that could come from bringing Juan Pierre to town: first, he might feel inspired to drop another “Wiggly Feel” verse on us at some point; second, his middle name is “D’Vaughn,” so I would get to make all kinds of lame Dudley Boys jokes.

We know of the organization’s fondness for Villone, so at trying to bring him back was predictable. I have no idea why they would want to do acquire Pierre, unless doing so is the precursor to an additional move.


140 Responses to “Juan Pierre”

  1. David H on December 3rd, 2005 2:00 pm

    On a slow news day, this is exciting news (from Morosi’s article on the WBC):

    “Snelling underwent surgery on his left knee in September and had targeted a midsummer return, but is ahead of schedule.”


  2. aws on December 3rd, 2005 2:15 pm

    Bavasi thinks Reed is better suited for LF. So it is possible that acquiring Pierre allows us to keep Reed. Pierre is a leadoff hitter and does not fit any other role in a line up particularly well. Which leaves us with what to do about Ichiro? I have watched him launch balls over the left field wall in batting practice before every game. When Boone talked about the pop in his bat he was not exaggerating. The Mariners have tired moving him to 3rd in the lineup before, maybe Bavasi envisions him as our mysterious left handed stock. Plus those three would create the fastest outfield in baseball.

  3. Jim Thomsen on December 3rd, 2005 2:22 pm

    In other Mariners news, here’s some minor league transactions reported Nov. 25 by Baseball America:

    Signed RHPs Richard Dorman, Jeff Heaverlo and Jonathan Wright. Released Cs Luis Soto and Kent Dixon and OF Tim Auty. Released LHP Adam Brandt and SS Brandon Green.

  4. Jim Thomsen on December 3rd, 2005 2:28 pm

    More OT (another thread to come???):

    Also, Baseball America has a good Rule 5 draft preview up today. Writer Chris Kline doesn’t see any great sleeper picks from the Mariners organization. One name I know and like is Jeff Ridgway, a 24-year-old lefty from the Devil Rays organization. I’ve interviewed him a number of times because he comes from Port Angeles, and seen him play some. The injury history is scary, but he’s one of those guys who always does well when he can pitch even though he’s never played about high-A ball. Here’s what Kline says about him:

    Jeff Ridgway, lhp, Devil Rays

    Ridgway drew attention during the second half of the season when he went 2-2, 2.79 in 29 innings through July and August. That success carried over to instructional league, where Ridgway topped out at 94 mph several times. He shows better command pitching at 89-92, and also features a hard, slurvy breaking ball and a solid changeup. Ridgway has some medical baggage, however, being two years removed from elbow and shoulder injuries.

  5. mariners on December 3rd, 2005 2:37 pm

    Is it possible we get Ron Villone and Juan Pierre in exchange for those 2 guys we got last season in a trade(That Bazardo and Flannery guys)? If so, I think we go ahead and pull the trigger convince Ichiro to hit 3rd heres what our lineup could look like…

    1. Juan Pierre- CF
    2. Kenji Johjima- C
    3. Ichiro- RF
    4. Sexson- 1B
    5. Belre- 3B
    6. Ibanez- DH
    7. Lopez- 2B
    8. Reed- LF
    9. Betancourt- SS

    That I think would be an EXCITING lineup to watch… 1-3 you got 3 potential guys that can hit over .300… Pierre has went over .300 in 3 of the last 5 seasons… Hes a guy thats going to get you 20-25 doubles and 5-10 triples a season… Honestly that lineup excites me that prevents us from overpaying a “power” lefty in the offseason… That saves us more money to pick up starting pitching… I would love watching that lineup… I say we grab Pierre just don’t give up Reed for him

  6. Jim Thomsen on December 3rd, 2005 2:55 pm

    Again, be VERY wary of Pierre. What does it say that a player who entered what should have been the peak season of his career this year dropped 50 points in batting average?

    And the guy just doesn’t get on base enough to help. So we have a player who’s markedly deficient in the two primary areas of offensive performance — he doesn’t get on base enough, and his slugging percentages show that he doesn’t advance baserunners enough.

    What good is he, exactly?

  7. Zach in Spokane on December 3rd, 2005 2:57 pm

    #105- The Marlins would have absolutley no reason to give us those guys for minor league chaff.

  8. Jim Thomsen on December 3rd, 2005 3:04 pm

    We HAVE to get over the idea that other teams would love to trade for players we don’t want. Not even as a “package.”

  9. Dave in Palo Alto on December 3rd, 2005 3:12 pm

    Just so JT. However, M’s fans can be forgiven for this delusion, since the Mariners have so frequently given a home to players that other organizations couldn’t wait to expel.

  10. Jim Thomsen on December 3rd, 2005 3:20 pm

    Every organization goes offseason Dumpster-diving. That’s what spring-training NRI signings are all about. Despite the Mariners’ affection for making I’ll-trade-my-fallen-out-of-favor-player-for-yours deals with the Padres and Rockies, there is no trade market that would return real value for Ryan Franklin, Gil Meche, Mike Morse or Matt Thornton. At best, one of those players would be a throw-in if we suddenly decided to deal Sexson and Pineiro for Manny Ramirez, or something apocalyptic and unlikely like that.

    Speaking of marginal-value players, word from sources in our newsroom is that Willie Bloomquist — when it comes time to be tendered a contract offer — wants a guarantee that he’ll get a fair shot at competing for the starting second baseman job in ’06. Failing that, he’d request a Torrealba-esque get-me-the-hell-to-someplace-where-I-can-get-a-fresh-start trade with the Diamondbacks. (Willie went to college in Arizona and lives there.) We’ve also heard that he’s expecting an offer between $800,000 and $1 million, though my sourcing on that is not as solid as I would like.

  11. Deep 6 on December 3rd, 2005 3:45 pm

    I’d rather watch an Ichiro/Reed/(Choo, Bohn, Strong, Snelling, Balantein or Nelson): who all have more power than Pierre (aside from Strong), come cheaper (aside from Ichiro) and without having to give up a player to put them in the lineup. I’d rather watch strong fail at trying to be better than Pierre than the rotation fail because the money went to an average OFer (who I beleive to be overpriced)

    Save any additions to salary for SP if you can’t get the LH power that seems unavailable if we want to keep Felix, Ichiro, Beltre, Sexson, Guardado, Betancourt and Kenji (M’s japanese players may be referred to by thier first names). Matter of fact, I’d rather see a proven SP come back in a trade of any of these players, as the incoming player is likely to raise the salary…Well there are a few LH power hitters who I’d feel differently about, but I don’t see them coming here without Ichiro, Felix or Sexson+ leaving.

    So no thanks to the left fielder acquisition except for Bigbie(platoon with youngster) or J. Jones (decent contract that could see M’s 1 & 2 hitters combine for 30-40 HR)

  12. John D. on December 3rd, 2005 3:50 pm

    PIERRE, BAZARDO, ET AL (# 105) – I’d think twice before pulling that trigger. Ample evidence has been presented here–very weak arm, decline in skills, no upside–that PIERRE is not an upgrade over REED.
    Besides, the Mariners may have scored a coup when they got BAZARDO. He has made normal progress–a classification promotion each year–through the minors, and has put up some decent numbers. {An ERA of 3.41 and a K/BB ratio of 2.69.) I see him joining the rotation in 2007–at a much cheaper price than picking up a FA pitcher.

  13. chaney on December 3rd, 2005 4:47 pm

    I searched this page for the word “calf,” but could not find it. It’s misleading to refer to Pierre’s 2005 as a decline year, because he suffered from a calf injury early in the year and it seemed to linger on and affect his wheels-oriented game. If he’s healthy, there’s no reason he should put up such poor numbers.

  14. msb on December 3rd, 2005 5:04 pm

    ah me. wandering OT, from Rotoworld: “Miguel Olivo went 0-for-4 and committed his sixth and seventh errors of the DWL season yesterday.
    Padres GM Kevin Towers says he’d be comfortable entering next season with a tandem of Olivo and David Ross behind the plate, but the trade rumors suggest that really isn’t the case. Olivo is doing nothing to inspire more confidence by hitting .169/.242/.271 in 59 AB this winter.”

  15. Jim Thomsen on December 3rd, 2005 5:06 pm

    Well, he’s got the other Miggy (Ojeda) back. Maybe Bruce Bochy can be the team’s designated light-hitting backup catcher, as he used to be. Or Doug Gwosdz could be exhumed.

  16. David J Corcoran on December 3rd, 2005 5:12 pm

    115: I’m not sure about that. Conflicting information there. Last I heard Ojeda was safely protected on Colorado’s 40 Man Roster, and a visit to the Rockies official site shows him still on their 40 Man.

  17. Jim Thomsen on December 3rd, 2005 5:38 pm

    Ah, never mind. I was thinking of Jorge Campillo, who was signed by the Padres.

  18. Terry on December 3rd, 2005 6:12 pm

    Hi all….hey, if the choice is between Pierre in center/Reed in left or no new body and simply plugging in the failed experiments from Tacoma back into left, well im all for Pierre depending upon the cost of his acquisition. However, Ichiro in the 3 hole doesnt appeal to me and the suggestion of KJ as the #2 hitter seems very unlikely as well.

    Given the need for a corner outfielder, why hasnt anyone wondered about the other guy in the Marlins outfield-Juan Encarnacion? Personally, I’d prefer to dream big and suggest getting M Cabrera, moving Ichiro to center and Reed to left. While Im dreaming, maybe we could convince the Marlins to throw in D. Willis? That would really allow the Marlin’s front office to stick it to their fans. 😛

    Anyway, while it seems like a fire sale is going in in Florida, they are actually loading up for bear in perhaps two years when they’re playing in Portland. They havent just dumped salary, theyve picked up some real dandy young talent. You have to wonder what the M’s could offer. I’d submit that given the M’s really dont have enough chips to get the Marlin’s batboy, this whole thread likely is more an interesting mental exercise than a possibility.

  19. Terry on December 3rd, 2005 6:22 pm

    #112: the point isnt that Pierre is an upgrade over Reed. Rather the point of Pierre is that he would be an upgrade over currently having no one in left. The M’s dont view Ibanez as their everyday left fielder-they didnt play him there last season until finally they didnt have a choice. Pierre in center and Reed in left is by far an upgrade over what the M’s have written in pencil right now.

    Whether Pierre is worth what it takes to get him and what his impact on the line up would be, well those are all more relevent discussion points. He’s an upgrade that probably is a compromise but if defense is undervalued, his acquisition would improve the defense.

    Im looking forward to next week. This should be a GREAT week to scour the rumors and see what Bavasi has cooking up his sleeve. This is Bavasi’s time to shine. Im rooting for him hard…

  20. David J Corcoran on December 3rd, 2005 6:26 pm

    117: But you’re not wrong, either. the BA transaction article says:

    Signed RHPs Manny Ayala, Jorge Campillo, Steve Spragg and Michael Thompson and C Miguel Ojeda. Signed LHP Brian Martin.

    So who knows.

  21. Jim Thomsen on December 3rd, 2005 9:26 pm

    Here’s an idea for a left-handed bat off the bench: Gig Harbor resident Scott “Pickin’ Machine” Hatteberg. Kept to 150 ABs or so, he fills the Dave Hansen role, only capably — he walks, he hits .260, has modest slugging abilities, swaps hunting tips with Sexson and Bloomquist in the clubhouse.

    Granted, he can’t play defense, but he could probably be had for $1 million or less.

  22. Commander Bill Adama on December 3rd, 2005 11:27 pm

    The Market continues to run amok.

    Furcal to Dodgers, 3 years 40 million.

  23. NBarnes on December 4th, 2005 12:22 am

    An elite shortshop’s age 28, 29, and 30 seasons for 10.33 per is not amok by any reasonable standard, especially from a team as loaded as the Dodgers. I can live with it.

  24. Matt Williams on December 4th, 2005 12:31 am

    Hey, why are we worried about Pierre? He’ll be just like previous huge busts for my fantasy team like Cristian Guzman and recover with huge numbers.


  25. Matt Williams on December 4th, 2005 12:33 am

    Oh, and I do have to state for the record I had Guzman in 2002 and have avoided him like the plague ever since.

  26. Commander Bill Adama on December 4th, 2005 3:38 am

    An elite shortshop’s age 28, 29, and 30 seasons for 10.33 per is not amok by any reasonable standard, especially from a team as loaded as the Dodgers. I can live with it.

    Wanna try that math again? 13.3 mil / year. Miggy Tejada made only $11 mil last year.

  27. Terry on December 4th, 2005 5:01 am

    Yes, and Tejada is now considered a bargain….somehing the M’s should consider when refusing to offer that extra year as a plum…..

  28. NBarnes on December 4th, 2005 5:06 am

    Math is hard. Mea culpa. *^_^*

    I’m prepared to stand by the general point, though. Tejada’s contract is not as recent, Baltimore has less money than LA, and baseball is obviously healthy and thriving. Revenues are up and, frankly, I see it as a good sign that those revenues are being directed towards the players teams feel will help them win. Winning being the point, of course. Nobody goes to Dodger Stadium saying, ‘Wow, this is Frank McCourt’s team? Wow.’ If Bud Selig were hit by a falling satelite tomorrow (Goddess grant that it be so), another bland but faintly sulfurous apparachik would replace him and 98% of baseball fandom would never know. It’s good to see the people that give baseball its value being rewarded for being the game’s irreplaceable commodities.

    Also, Tejada two years ago was not the player he obviously is now. Between him overperforming his previous established level of performance for the last two years and baseball’s growth-exceeding-inflation, yes, his contract looks like a boon for Baltimore. Furcal isn’t the hitter Tejada is, but he’s well above average, and Tejada isn’t half the defender that Furcal is. LA is paying a bit of a premium, but is getting in return Furcal’s peak years with little risk of being on the hook for any serious decline. For a team with deep pockets, that’s a canny move. If there’s a surprise here, it’s not in the $/year, but that Furcal didn’t get a 4th or even 5th year out of somebody. Frankly, the only concern for LA is blocking Joel Guzman, but, then again, Guzman will only be 23 when this deal expires.

  29. Terry on December 4th, 2005 5:20 am

    Here’s an interesting snippet form the Star Ledger discussing the Yanks search for a centerfielder:
    ***Florida’s Juan Pierre is likely to be traded, since the Marlins are cutting costs and Pierre is eligible for arbitration and due for a raise to more than $5 million. The Seattle Mariners recently dangled Jeremy Reed in talks about Carl Pavano, but the Yankees passed.****

    They need a centerfielder and relief help…any trade for Pavano (the only guy Seattle seems to be asking about) would be painful to the bullpen as well. Besides the Yanks are greedy bastards and think Ichiro for Pavano is more reasonable.

    I guess I cant see the Yanks having a position of strength on this one…..sure Pavano is an arm and everyone needs those BUT, Pavano doesnt want to be there, has a huge contract still remaining, is coming off a horrible injury-riddled season that has made his ONLY solid year in the bigs seem like it happened 5 years ago and Boston is winning the PR game this offseason AND the Yanks desparately need a centerfielder.

    Shouldnt Steinbrenner ride across the field, apologize for 200 years of tyranny brought down upon our people and then put his head between his legs and kiss his own arse????? 😛


  30. Terry on December 4th, 2005 5:23 am

    Here’s another snipet from the PalmBeachPost:

    **** If Florida cannot trade Pierre, the organization is prepared to let him become a free agent. To replace Pierre, the Marlins are interested in Joey Gathright, a speedy center fielder for the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. The Rays need young pitching.******

    So if no trade, theywont offer Pierre arbitration aqnd he’ll be able to walk….. it doesnt sound like the Marlins have a position of strength either.

  31. Terry on December 4th, 2005 5:30 am

    LA filled a need on the field with the best available and they need to sell tickets, also helped by a big splash signing….

    Besides its just cool when you get new toys. I cant wait to play with jojima 🙂

    Nobody predicted Furcal would get 13 mill back in October but I think everyone predicted that Kansas City had no chance of signing him,,, those poor Royal fans will have another lousy Christmas.

  32. Terry on December 4th, 2005 5:40 am

    Here’s an off topic that I think would make a great thread…

    Did the M’s overpay for Jojima?

    With Lo Duca expected to go to the Mets very soon, there might be an all-star caliber catcher without a readily apparent home… Molina and Hernandez booth will likely sign for less than expected and definately not for the four years everyone was predicting.

    Months ago, I suggested signing a catcher since that would be the easiest blackhole to fill in ths market-and was treated as a heretic.. Being exonerated is almost as fun as playing with new toys. 🙂

    For the record, I still like the jojima signing.

  33. David H on December 4th, 2005 8:54 am


    It seems that Furcal did have longer offers, but at the pittance of 9 and 10 per year (Cubs – 5/50; Braves 4/36)


  34. AK1984 on December 4th, 2005 2:46 pm

    Realistic Trade Proposal:

    The Seattle Mariners trade starting pitcher Joel Piñeiro and relief pitcher Eddie Guardado to the Baltimore Orioles for either starting pitcher Hayden Penn or starting pitcher Adam Loewen.

    In any event, the above trade proposal would allow for the Mariners to rid of approximately $13 million in salary and obtain a top-tier pitching prospect, while it would allow for the Orioles to adequately replace the long since released Sidney Ponson and the recently departed B.J. Ryan.

  35. Gomez on December 4th, 2005 3:05 pm

    Re: Furcal… with all the above mentioned shifts I guess Hee-Sop Choi isn’t the answer at 1B.

    And Terry, give the circumstances it doesn’t appear we overpaid. Even if every team has an incumbent catcher, Molina and Hernandez are top-shelf catchers and teams out there seeking an extra edge to contend will be willing to big serious coin (several million more than we paid) to get them even if they’ve got an everyday catcher. Remember, the M’s were all but ready to go into 2006 with Torrealba catching everyday before Johjima expressed interest in playing here.

    They could resign for serious money. I think the aforementioned Dodgers, given the option, could want an upgrade over Jason Phillips. And the Rockies could choose to sign one of them rather than trade for a catcher as they originally planned. They have options. And they will get at least 8-9 mil a year over 4 years or so.

    We got lucky that Johjima fell into our laps for as little as we signed him for.

  36. msb on December 4th, 2005 9:34 pm

    and FWIW,
    the sunday update– Byrd to the Indians (2/$14.25M with 3rd year option) and LoDuca traded to the Mets, which makes it now Lo Duca, Beckett, Lowell, Delgado and Castillo gone from the Marlins

  37. Mr. Egaas on December 5th, 2005 12:48 am

    New twist:

    Marlins could be seeking Torrealba after dealing Lo Duca today.

  38. jojo on December 5th, 2005 3:52 am

    How about Torrealba to the Marlins for Willis and Cabrera? 😛

    Seriously, I think that could be the opning for a Torrealba for Villone deal.

  39. Mr. Egaas on December 5th, 2005 10:41 am

    I could see him being spun or Villone, definitely.

    I still think the team has more pressing needs than relief pitching. We locked our closer down, we still have Sherrill as a reliable lefty and a Thornton as a scrap lefty (shudder).

  40. eponymous coward on December 5th, 2005 11:07 am

    So, does Byrd going to the Indians mean they aren’t resigning Millwood? If so, that works for me- I have a higher opinion of Byrd than some others do here, but I’d take a more expensive/more years Millwood in a heartbeat (as long as the money/years numbers don’t get TOO silly- 3 with an optional 4th is about as far as I’d go).