Willie Bloomquist, starting second baseman
I’d like to apologize for our recent position roundtable where we discussed the second base position as if it was Jose Lopez’s. This was so obvious that we didn’t even take time to dismiss the position battle. After all, given every opportunity to start regularly, Bloomquist has been an abject failure, and Lopez, even if he didn’t improve at all from last year, would help the team much more.
Nope! From Larry LaRue’s column:
Now appearing in a starting lineup near you, Willie Bloomquist.
He’s done everything anyone has ever asked, playing seven positions over the past four years, and three managers have loved having him on their bench. What the 28-year-old Bloomquist brings to the Mariners is more than a dial-a-glove reserve.
Hargrove says Bloomquist is the best base runner on the team, and Bob Melvin said he was a player who made things happen when he did play.
The rap on Bloomquist has always been that he’s impatient at the plate, better when used in short spurts than as a regular player. That theory has never fully been tested, and last year he started 64 games – no more than 29 at any position.
Second base is wide open this spring. For the first time in his career, Bloomquist goes to camp as the frontrunner to win a regular job.
I’m not going to get into the specific things that are wrong here — I’ve debunked all the Bloomquist myths at length here and in other spaces (Bloomquist is a good baserunner, when he gets on base, which is rarely), and the myth that he’s “never been tested” as a starter is clearly hokum.
What’s important, though, is that Blooquist starting is even open for speculation. I understand that the team doesn’t want to slag on their popular, newly-signed local boy by saying he’s much better suited as a 25th man on the roster – or even subbing in frequently – then starting anywhere on the field. That they aren’t hinting around to the local newshounds that Lopez is the favorite worries me.
Bloomquist’s weighted PECOTA forecast: .237/.280/.317
Lopez: .263/.298/.409
Bloomquist’s 90% forecast (he goes crazy! he is teh best case evah!!): .287/.336/.387
Lopez: .302/.339/.516
Yeahhhh… so the prediction for a Super Bloomquist is moderately better than the prediction for a normal Lopez growth year.
Also in this article: Carl Everett got runners in from third with less than two outs as often as anyone on the White Sox, says Ozzie Guillen (btw, not true). The new pitching coach needs to make Meche and Pineiro believe they’re the aces they were supposed to become. And other stuff.
Over at the Times, Finnigan also thinks the season rides on Meche and Pineiro are key. His piece contains this gem from Hargrove, on moving on from Bryan Price:
“No knock on Bryan [former pitching coach Bryan Price], but guys get tired of hearing the same message from a coach,” Hargrove said, “and the coach might get tired of the player not getting it. Sooner or later, the instruction is lost. So, changing to Chaves here might do the trick.
Hee hee hee. Also lots of “character” stuff and normal spring speculation content. Notable omission– in talking about the young players who’ll be contributing next year, Betancourt’s mentioned, but Lopez is entirely left out. Maybe I’m just jumpy, but… yeagh.
Larry Stone finishes off the day’s news with a random “best and worst of the off-season” column which includes this succinct little gem:
While the Seahawks were dazzling the city with a run to the Super Bowl, the Mariners seemingly did little to recapture their waning hold on Seattle. The team’s solution to its dire need for “left-handed sock” was signing declining Carl Everett and Matt Lawton. The M’s solution to their dire need for a starting pitching boost was paying $37.5 million over four years for Jarrod Washburn, who is 29-31 over the last three years. The brightest new hope is a complete unknown  catcher Kenji Johjima.
Bam.
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I hate this.
Maybe, just maybe, if we give Willie the starting job, he’ll hit his way out of baseball within 2 months?
Whilst sailing backwards!
Once more unto the cellar, my dear friends!
The difference between having Bloomquist and Lopez in the lineup all year is easily a game or two in the divisional standings. It’s unlikely it’ll play out like that, but that’s how big the gap between them is.
The gap is bigger if you consider the fact that any interference is delaying Lopez’s development.
1 or 2 games this year, 5~10 next year…
Y’never know, but you do wanna know if Lopez is something special.
lol, do you really think Lopez is going to develop (in the course of 1 season) into 10 games better than Wee Willie? If so, please pass the dutchie on the left hand side.
Why must I explain the intricacies of exaggeration on this site?
perhaps because your post contains nothing to denote it as an intentional exaggeration
Bob Melvin said he was a player who made things happen when he did play.
Um, yeah…..but things = outs.
I know the press wants a ‘local boy’ or a good story or something, but they can’t seriously think the WFB is good enough to be a starter and taken seriously?
I want to believe that the “Bloomquist might start” talk exists to ensure that Lopez does not simply go through the motions in ST. Hopefully the M’s brass plan to give Lopez the starting nod, but they probably do not want him to feel as if he does not have to earn it. If this is the case, fine. If not . . .
If the city’s press needs a local boy to get behind, I sincerely hope we sign Grady Sizemore once he’s eligible for free agency, and be done with it so we don’t have to hear about WFB anymore.
The ONLY thing I can think of to support the WFB over Lopez argument are the hints of a suspect (read: lacking) work ethic from Lopez. I saw more hustle than before during the second half of 2005, but I also recall him grounding to 2nd and calmly trotting to first many a time as recently as late last June. When Doyle and yes, WFB, are racing for first on those grounders to the left like life depends on it, it really gets on one’s nerves to see Jose not run those out.
Other than that and experience, especially if such rumors are unfounded, there is no reasonable argument against starting Lopez.
DMZ I don’t think you’re being overly jumpy over Lopez being left out of the media coverage at this stage. With the exception of an occasional Larry Stone or Art Thiel “tell it like it is” piece, the local media (in my opinion) appears to be in the pocket of the FO. The pocket lint of the FO, if you will.
OK to be fair, Larry LaRue once in a while comes through too.
But still.
Ye who have doubted Willie repent!
It is Willie’s destiny to be Mariners’ starting second baseman.
You cannot stop fate.
Well, if he simply has to play, I’d rather have Willie Ballgame at 2nd than at short or in centerfield.
It’s still a sham though. One can only hope Lopez kills the ball during Spring training so there’s little doubt to whom the starter will be.
I SO totally saw this coming. It’s pretty clear that Lopez hasn’t been a favorite of the organization for a while (not the total lack of hype compared to Betancourt), and we all know how GRIT! and HUSTLE! make people in this organization totally forget nearly 700 major league plate appearances where someone’s done jack squat (see: Everett, Carl).
If I was Billy Beane or a GM who specialized in acquiring undervalued players, I would SO be trying to get Lopez right now. “Hey, you want my Ryan Franklin clone straight up? No sweat. Here, I’ll even toss in a AA arm for you.”
Someone said this in the original 2B thread, but you don’t even have to look at projections, just look at 2005.
Good Bloomquist 257/289/333
Bad Lopez 247/282/379
Even not hitting well, Lopez out hit Bloomquist who had a good year. (Good in that he hit well for two or three weeks.) Willie’s 14 SB and 1 CS are worth something, but I’d venture a guess that Lopez is the much better fielder.
I keep thinking that if Willie had a less cutsie name and grew up outside the PNW, he would get about as much ink as Charles Gipson in his prime. But alas, we will be bombarded with Willie propaganda from the media and a majority of the fanbase…until the end of time.
“No knock on Bryan [former pitching coach Bryan Price], but guys get tired of hearing the same message from a coach,†Hargrove said, “and the coach might get tired of the player not getting it. Sooner or later, the instruction is lost. So, changing to Chaves here might do the trick.
pretty much the same thing Bryan said when he left
btw, Hargrove is aware that Willie can’t hit.
hey, maybe it’s like a round-robin; Finnegan had the pre-season WillieLove article last year, it’s Larue’s turn this off-season, and Hickey’ll draw it next year….
Fear not my friends, if WFB is the starting 2nd baseman in April then at least the M’s will be rid of Bavasi by July. Now if Howard would just go with him….
“Willie Bloomquist, starting second baseman”?
What, has April Fool’s Day come early or something?
Hargrove’s comfort level seems to vary directly with the years of experience of the player. Thus, Bloomquist more experience, Lopez less experience, therefore Bloomquist.
He’s not a complete idiot–he wouldn’t start Pinero over Hernandez– but in fact with most players (i.e., from fairly bad to fairly good) the gain is often incremental and almost imperceptible. That is, a player who will gain you a game or two a year is, on a game to game basis, indistinguishable from a player who will lose you a game or two a year over replacement level.
Comfort level, for managers like Hargrove, resides in the type of player he understands–which is to say, veterans with traditional values and traditional modes. Players like Ichiro or, say, Dunn of Cincinatti, he has more trouble with.
You can call it cronyism, but I believe that Hargrove feels more comfortable with veterans, even if they are worse players, as long as they are not grossly worse players.
Put him on the Yankees and, like Joe Torre, another extremely unimaginative manager, he will be successful. Put him on a young team like the Mariners . . .
Well, he might feel more comfortable with Willie Bloomquist.
Let’s hope Lopez knocks the snot out of the ball in spring training.
“pass the dutchie on the left hand side”
That really dates you, kenshin. (me too, though)
#22:
I think everything that Hargrove has said about Willie recently and not said about Lopez should be considered not so subtle jabs at Lopez.
Lopez shouldnt go into camp thinking his name is written in ink in the starting lineup.
I absolutely agree that Lopez has a ton of upside and probably helps more NOW than a full season of willie at second. However, that ton of upside is much less likely to be realized if the work ethic isnt there. At this point in his career, competition and pressure for playing time is probably the best thing for Lopez.
Character is a bad word around here and I think rightfully so. But competition, especially for the younger ones on the roster, should be considered a great thing. Obviously, Im already looking past next year for the M’s as a threat in their division and I dont think willie starting at second over Lopez is the difference between the playoffs in ’06. I guess it could be argued that giving Willie starts at second could stunt Lopez’s growth but I think given Lopez’s rumored poor work ethic, just giving the job to Lopez is more likely to stunt his growth.
I guess the gripe I have is that the M’s arent using a guy like Ryan Freel to pressure Lopez instead of Willie. Anyway that’s my take on the issue.
Clearly all this talk about Willie Bloomquist starting has been carefully designed by the M’s to do two things:
First: Give Willie the perception that he is being given a shot at an every day job so that when he ends up on the bench yet again no one will have to listen to him whine.
Second: Motivate Jose Lopez. Obviously, the M’s feel he needs a kick in the behind. They must think handing him a job is the wrong way to go.
Character is a bad word around here and I think rightfully so.
No it isn’t, and you know that.
The discussions that occurred when the M’s signed Ben Christensen showed how much USSM values character.
Hopefully this talk is truly just to motivate Lopez, and as evidence that it is, it doesn’t seem the Mariners have any obvious alternative candidates for the pinchrunner/play anywhere spot on the roster. If not Willie, then who?
Of course after all the comments on USS Mariner, Willie may have decided to spend the offseason living in the weight room, gorging on supplements, and be planning to astonish us with a Brady Anderson (’92, not ’96) or David Bell (’98) like power discovery, (Not).
I mentioned this in the Lopez round table discussion. The M’s are going to use Lopez as the scapegoat when they break out of the chute below .500 and he’ll be riding the Tacoma shuttle all season.
They are already setting the wheels in motion. The only chance Jose has is if he comes out of April red hot.
Once they use up the Lopez scapegoat allotment then they’ll focus on their real problem….starting pitching…
Maybe I’m missing some info here, but when was it decided that Lopez has a poor work ethic? He seems to come back from injuries as fast as the next guy, and his development rate has been good, all while learning a new position. I don’t really have any data either way, but since Lopez played winter ball and Bloomquist didn’t maybe we should start a ‘Bloomquist has a poor work ethic’ rumor. It seems no more arbitrary than the tag getting placed on Lopez.
*point of clarity*
When I wrote, “Character is a bad word around here and I think rightfully so.”, I was trying to suggest measureable tangibles are favored over intangibles when evaluating players and construction of a roster based on over valueing intangibles likely would upset many here. Certainly I wasnt trying to suggest USSM ignores character or even embraces a lack of character because , well, that would just be wrong.
Motivate Jose Lopez. Obviously, the M’s feel he needs a kick in the behind. They must think handing him a job is the wrong way to go.
Right, except this team’s record on talent assessment doesn’t exactly give me a great deal of confidence that this is simply a case of “Hey, let’s motivate Jose”. Remember. this is the team that, when given a choice between Carlos Guillen and Rich Aurilia, totally botched it (and it’s interesting to note that Guillen, like Lopez, had a bit of a bad rap in the organization). They’ve handed Matt Thornton a major league job he most certainly does not deserve- because he’s a high draft choice with some perceived talents that are out of scale with actual results (much like Bloomquist). They’ve made it clear that they are willing to ignore clear evidence (such as evidence that Carl Everett is one of the worst DH’s in the AL, or that Jarrod Washburn’s shiny 3.20 ERA is not likely an indicator of his true ability) due to subjective judgments on “intangibles”.
To put it bluntly, we’re being set up for the sort of things incompetent organizations that lose 85-95 games year-in, year-out do- screwing up player assessment. So excuse me if I have an impending feeling of doom here. I’ll be perfectly happy to have things come out hunky-dory, with Lopez starting Opening Day…but the track record doesn’t give me confidence the right thing will happen.
They might give WFB a shot to create a rally disposal vacuum in the 8th spot for a while, but really, how often can any professional manager play a banjo hitting right handed hitter who can’t even hit lefties? Assuming Grover has an active interest in fielding competitive lineups, that experiment shouldn’t last long.
I have been scared to death (ok, maybe not that much) of this… and LaRue’s article did nothing to help me. Here I was hoping to come over to USSM and here how absurd that is, that there is no way this could actually happen. But then again, the more I think about it, the less surprised I would be by its happening. It seems like Lopez’s only shot is to be hot in spring training, and hold that hot streak for at least a month or so into the season.
But really, even if he does, and then he has a two week slump, would they switch-eroo? I’d almost be surprised if they didn’t.
Chalking this up as an attempt to motivate Jose Lopez gives M’s management too much credit. I don’t think they really know how to play mind games with their players a la Phil Jackson. It’s way more likely that they just realized they gave Willie a bunch of money and a roster spot. And they need to leverage that investment to sell more tickets to the hometown fans, who they continue to assume are completely ignorant of baseball. Or as I have posited before, that Hargrove is a Sith Lord secretly working to undermine the team. Either scenario is more plausible to me than this being some kind of cunning attempt to get Jose Lopez hustling down the line more in Spring Training.
Assuming Grover has an active interest in fielding competitive lineups, that experiment shouldn’t last long.
WFB in August, 2005: .248/.259/.330 (2 BB, 19K, 7 CS, 0 CS). Second on the team in August ABs to Ichiro, played 26 of 28 games.
Granted, the team was well past the stick-a-fork-in-it point by August 1, but I could see Willie pulling off a month like that in April and still being in the lineup come May 1.
My bet? Bavasi thinks WFB == David Eckstein (despite the fact that, well, it’s not really that close- Willie would have to raise his OBP and SLG 40 points each to get to that point), and hey…Eckstein and his ‘intangibles” helped win it for Anaheim in 2002, right?
As an aside, can we come up with a consistent definition of “chance to start”? That’s the constant argument for him, even though he started 64 games last year, almost half of that at second base.
If Willie starts the season at second base, and plays the first, oh, 26 games and flops, was that a chance to start? Or does he need to fail for a much longer amount of time? When will he officialy have had this much pined-for “chance to start”?
just a thought; this IS Larue’s take on the team, not the word from on-high — as he puts it himself, it is “a look at some of the issues facing the Mariners this spring, and a few things you can expect to see”. There was more actual reporting in Kirby Arnold’s fluff piece today about the media chasing Johjima in Peoria.
FWIW, the TNT’s other baseball guy Corey Brock sez: “I’m also curious about this Bloomquist deal with him being given a chance to start at second base. I think they’ll give him that chance but what they really want is someone to push Lopez, instead of just handing him the job.”
#25–I think everything that Hargrove has said about Willie recently and not said about Lopez should be considered not so subtle jabs at Lopez.
btw, this is what Hargrove has said in print about Willie “recently”:
“Willie’s our best base runner even though he’s not our fastest,” Hargrove said. “He’s fearless out there on the bases, he knows when to run and there’s no hesitation in him. He brings quite a bit to the team.”
I wish people would wait on the wailing and gnashing of teeth until Willie is actually starting out there. Yes, it’d be a poor decision to start WFB over Lopez, but, dammit, the decision hasn’t been made yet!
EC — when WFB played in August, Lopez wasn’t available. Lopez moved right into the starting lineup in September, so I wouldn’t draw grand conclusions from Willie’s big month.
The other thing that scares me about this…if Bloomquist starts at second, Lopez will certainly be sent to Tacoma. Who then becomes the backup middle infielder(s)? Morse and Vina? Yikes.
Lopez’s return to the majors and the starting second base job in late August coincided with Bloomquist’s season-ending trip to the DL for his hamstring.
That said, as the explanation for the recent increase in “Bloomquist as starter?” articles, I’ll go with Occam’s Razor: the local media are playing up the possible competition because they need something to write about (other than Felix, Ichiro, or Johjima ) during a slow news period. Position battle stories are a spring training staple, but the M’s lineup and rotation are essentially set. Like last year with centerfield, however, the M’s have avoided naming a starting second basemen before spring training (probably for some combination of motivating Lopez, saving face if Lopez flops this spring, and as DMZ put it, not slagging on Bloomquist). The M’s failure to name a starter outright gives the reporters license to speculate about second base because, let’s face it, playing up an underdog’s battle to win a starting job is a lot more interesting than contemplating whether Rene Rivera can hold off Corky Miller for the backup catcher job.
“it doesn’t seem the Mariners have any obvious alternative candidates for the pinchrunner/play anywhere spot on the roster. If not Willie, then who?”
Despite my lack of confidence in the M’s decision-makers’ abilities, this fact alone gives me the greatest hope that Lopez will start at 2B with Bloomquist backing him up. Even if their hitting abilities were equal, starting Lopez makes more sense, as you want his defensive versatility and pinch-running ability on call for the late innings.
that’s not very clear, is it? it should read…
“starting Lopez makes more sense, as you want Bloomquist’s defensive versatility and pinch-running ability on call for the late innings.”
Finding someone to be the next Charles Gipson is easy, if the M’s want to start Bloomquist and send Lopez to Tacoma.
Hypothetical scenario: Bloomquist rips the cover off of the ball in ST for a couple of weeks; Lopez does OK but not spectacular. Given the public promises to Willie that he gets to compete for the job, and given the Mariners are prone to succumbibng to the illusion of Small Sample Size Theatre (see: Bloomquist, Willie, 2002 and Sele, Aaron, 2005), what do you think’s going to happen?
Maybe, but lazyboy Jose Lopez has had two good springs, both times hitting the ball harder and more often than WFB. To be fair, though, I haven’t found any spring stats for GRIT or HUSTLE.
47- i am not saying it is a forgone conclusion that Lopez will start the season, though it should be. The fact that Willy is a great bench player works against him to a certain extent, and I hope the Mariners (whether because of this or because they actually look at the stats) choose Lopez to start. I don’t want to be too optimistic, especially considering the Mariner’s past, but I really feel like this is more of a press-story sentimentality than Bavasi/Hargrove predilection.
That it is even possible enough to be discussed by the local media is revolting. I was very sad the day we hired Hargrove… and I haven’t gotten one bit happier about it.
gwanggung… No. The time to get mad about it is BEFORE the decision is made. Do whatever pitiful little we can do to influence them against this idiocy.
God, I wish they would fire about 80% of the management of this team.
Says more about our local media than it does about Hargrove, Bavasi or anyone else with the team….
#46: willie’s *defensive versatility* is less valuable in the late innings because he isnt particularly good at any of the positions he plays.
His versatility does makes him more valuable from a roster standpoint both because he offers short term insurance in case an injury situation crops up and it allows Hargrove the ability to carry an extra pitcher over a position player. I think there have been many discussions on USSM about the wisdom of this second approach.
Derek, do you realize that your opposition against Willie as starting second baseman contradicts your logic on Hermoine Granger and Harry Potter?
(for those who do not know what I’m talking about: http://www.zumsteg.net/milhous/2005/04/hermione-hero.html)
No it doesn’t. The issue there is that there are two equally (if differently) talented characters, one with a work ethic and who is reliable, the other who is not. In baseball terms, this would be like comparing the peak Rickey Henderson, a super-talented workout and preperation freak, with a young, care-free Griffey.
Or something close to that.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO