Feed Post-Mortem
Not since my college debate coach took a header into a mud puddle after rounding third base have I laughed so heartily at a game-of-ball-and-stick related event.
Thanks are in order to all of the 150-some folks who showed up to the feed for taking the time, for indulging my digressions, and for chortling along with us as Derek and I tried to one-up each other with esoteric analogies. We’re obliged also to Bill Bavasi for graciously answering our questions and to Dave and his family for organizing work above and beyond the call of duty.
With a little luck, Friend of USSM Jim Thomsen will grace us with some of the many photos I saw him snapping. Speaking of snapping, it’s a miracle that no one lost a finger during the locust plague around the dessert tray. But man, were those little brownie concoctions good.
If you’re inclined, use this thread to share feed memories and suggestions for next year. Opening Day is almost here: I’ll see many of you at the game tomorrow, and have a fresh post in the morning, when the M’s will definitely possess an unblemished record.
Maybe there is a Wrap-up in the works, but if not, could authors and attendees share any interesting tidbits from Bavasi for those who weren’t able to make it? Thanks.
I so want the Jeff & Derek podcast it’s frightening. But then, I like steak and ming vase analogies.
Fun event, thanks for setting it all up.
That was something I was wondering about.
This doesn’t seem to be a period where things need to be as hushed, so does it matter if we repeat the content of what was said or should we still adhere to the good faith agreement set forth by both parties?
I just e-mailed some pics. Pretty static, as I was shooting strict portraiture for my newspaper, but there is one entertaining mistake you might call “Capitol Hill Rave on Ecstacy Bill” ….
Yes, I also would like to hear anything that could be shared. I wanted to come today but I had parenting duties. Please please share.
How long until we know if Carvajal will be snapped up by another team?
It was a great time. I really enjoyed Bavasi’s answers, and if by any chance he stops by the blog to read this – Thanks Bill! And thanks to USSM for organizing it.
One suggestions I’d make about format – if you guys are asking the questions, maybe stand at the back of the room, or at least in the crowd. It was a little odd with Bavasi facing Stage Right for his answers. And give the guy a bottle of water when he’s coughing, for cryin’ out loud.
(and for those who weren’t there, the coughing had nothing to do with questions about T-Rex).
One thing that came across to me was that Bavasi has a pretty grounded view of what it means to be a GM. He knows he’s going to be second-guessed – by fans, writers, his owners maybe – and he doesn’t take that personally.
Here’s to hoping he keeps his job and can answer questions for us next year. Er, which, um, would also mean the M’s probably did pretty well in ’06…
Dammit, Jeff, you left before I got a chance to talk to you! Grrrr.
In general, my only complaint was not enough mingling time. I saw a lot of nametags of people who I know I’ve seen comment here and elsewhere, but there wasn’t enough time to say hi to all of them!
But it was great to meet people today, and a big big thank you to Dave for letting me promote book club. The entire event was pretty entertaining, as always. Looking forward to more in the future!
I thought that the first rule of book club was that you don’t talk about book club.
White sox are bringing in Matt Thornton, this should be interesting.
K’d Hafner. Haha.
Matt Thornton currently leads the league in ERA. Betcha didn’t expect to see that sentence anywhere ever.
I got to see pretty much everyone for the first time.
Bavasi is rather tall. From a distance, you’d think he could look Sexson right in the eye. Derek is younger than I thought, as was Dave. Dave was also a lot more fun than one would think; his posts always give me the impression he’s a bit serious. Derek, however, was as serious as I figured, though funny. Jason was quiet but was pretty witty when he did speak. Jeff was a lot of fun. Deanna had on her Vote For Felix shirt and was as nice as you’d expect.
I didn’t mingle too much. My ibuprofin had worn off towards the end (I’m fighting a rib injury) so I ducked out once the blogger Q&A ended and headed home, but I honestly had a lot of fun.
I must also thank Dave for inadvertently answering the question I asked him a few days back about his feeling that Borchard, despite the numbers, was a legit talent. I hadn’t formally asked the question at the feed, but in mentioning Borchard, Dave ended up mentioning why he found Borchard to be an odd case. Apparently, summing it up, Borchard wasn’t happy with the Sox, and it showed.
OK, I’ve uploaded my shots to Flickr. Unfortunately, they’re really static (hey, another picture of Bavasi speaking!) but unlike last time I thought to adjust the ISO so everything didn’t look so damn dark.
http://flickr.com/photos/dylanw/sets/72057594097444464/
Jim’s pictures were better since he thought to LEAVE HIS SEAT to take some shots.
Honestly, I can’t think of one thing Bill said that we’d ask you to refrain from publishing elsewhere. It’s not that he was less candid – we just asked less specific questions this time around. So, really, feel free to post a recap anywhere you want, and I’d say pretty much everything Bill said is fair game.
He certainly had exciting news on Doyle.
It was a great event, guys. Thanks for that.
Dave was also a lot more fun than one would think
Gee, thanks.
But now that I’ve met you, that “Gee, thanks” takes on a whole new tone.
A big round of applause for Dave’s mom, too. She did a fine job as bouncer.
To be fair, Evan, I didn’t really expect you to look like Eddie Veddar’s brother, either.
Bill’s head was less oblong than I thought. I guess it depends on how he cheats the angle.
I think he’s separated at birth from Kif from Futurama.
Bavasi:
http://flickr.com/photos/dylanw/122414975/in/set-72057594097444464/
Kif Kroker:
http://futuramasutra.babytux.de/images/fanmade/wallpapers/wallpaper_kif001_800.jpg
Less oblong? The man’s head can’t be 6 inches wide. For the first ten minutes I saw him I couldn’t think anything else but “that man has an incredibly narrow head”.
Man, aside from having to akwardly explain my username I’d say everything went pretty much as I expected. The captains of this fair ship all came across like I expected and Bavasi had good reasoning behind what he said even if it didn’t always agree with my reasoning. I like that he seems to try to get as much inputas possible and I love that he took the time to humor the fans.
Plus I got a compliment on my jacket which is always nice!
“Man, aside from having to akwardly explain my username I’d say everything went pretty much as I expected.”
Given that we have to read your username, I guess it only seems right to me that you should have to deal with a few awkward conversations regarding it.
My favorite Bavasi comment: “Carl Everett’s not one of those guys who’s misunderstood. Carl Everett is understood.”
#16 Since Dave seems to think a recap is allowed, what’s the haps on Doyle?!
HE SHALL RETURN
Return of the Jedi?
So what did Bavasi have to say about the twelve man pitching staff and various other questions suggested by your loyal readers?
I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate you guys. I can handle that you’re better writers than I am, as you’re all younger than me and before I went into my decline years, I could have matched you guys sometimes. However, it’s totally unfair that you’re also incredibly great at public speaking.
It’s like Joni Mitchell. It’s one thing that she has an incredible voice and can write interesting music and also can write moving lyrics. I can handle that. Sure she can play both the piano and the guitar but that’s not that out of line. However, when she also is a good enough painter that she can use her own art for her album covers, that just gets ridiculous.
Seriously, thanks for a great time. One thing that I forgot to mention, by the way, when telling you that some WBC games aired live on the KIRO digital multiplex channel is what exciting programming that was interupted to bring us the game. Right before the games started, this station was airing a live feed of a camera that showed cars pulling up to the departures deck of Sea-Tac airport. For some reason, KIRO decided that it is worth their time to bring us that. I have absolutely no idea what informational value that that’s supposed to bring us, but I have to confess that it is kind of soothing watching completely pointless television sometimes.
No wonder they rushed to air something real when they got the chance.
#30. He doesn’t like the 12 man pitching staff but didn’t feel that when it comes down to the 25th man on the team, that it was his decision; it’s Hargrove’s, and until Meche/Pineiro step up and are consistently giving innings, it’s understandable/defensible.
Any comments on what the organization is doing different to prevent pitching injuries?
I thought his explanation of Doyle was one of the more intersting things (as to why he didn’t put Doyle on the 60-man DL and keep Carvajal), and one of the things we often don’t think about as fans analysing the team – he said basically that it would break Doyle’s heart to be told that they are putting him on the DL for orgazinational reasons. I guess they know how hard he works at rehab, so I can see their point.
More about him, he is playing in extended spring right now, but not allowed to run the bases. He said the oprg remains very high on him, and one of the reasons they signed Everett over, say, Jacques Jones, was they only wanted to sign a guy to a one year deal because of Doyle being here as a full time player (they hope) in 2007.
I forgot to add a couple of notes to the “position players converted to pitchers” question…
In 04 they did experiment a bit with the idea and various players who were already in the system. The one I still get a kick out of was Scott Maynard, an organizational catcher in his late 20s, trying to pick up the knuckleball, but they also had Ruben Castillo, the hot no-hit shortstop prospect of yesteryear, try to take the mound for a while. Both experiments didn’t work out so well, but it was fun to watch for Maynard’s lines in the box scores while it lasted.
If you’re looking for converted pitchers that are still in the system, Guaramato and John Sullivan, the converted college hitter I was talking about, are it.
Anyway, it was nice meeting some of you in the “milling about” sessions. Thanks to the guys in charge for putting it on again.
hmm, what did I learn?
Bill keeps his reputation as humorous and honest; he didn’t try and sell us that Everett is anything beyond a stop-gap in his mind (and the good news is the 2nd year is likely the traditional 450 ABs to vest, not the ‘easily vested’ comments from the papers), he didn’t try to sell Washburn as anything beyond his numbers, he had a few trenchent comments on why you sometimes have to overpay for a player, and he backed up all that has been said here before about Bob Fontaine….
Deanna is right about the need for improved mingling (of course that would require some of us to aquire better mingling skills), Jason sez hit Canlis for steak tartar (and when he did finally answer a baseball question reminded us why we miss him so), Jeff needs to post way more man too, Dave should combine his vocation & avocation and send us baseball photos to illustrate his college scouting reports, Gillick doesn’t like Derek and the antipathy is mutual, and Finnigan is retiring soon, so sharpen up those resumes.
Great events, guys. Thanks a lot. I’ve sent feedback to Dave, as requested, but here are a couple things:
Prioritize the questions so that the best ones get asked early on, given the time contraints. I like the gnarly ones that Bavasi would never answer in the media. Softballs – no, thanks (sorry, Derek).
Everybody – on your nametags, write your name and your handle in BIG, bold letters for us visually challenged folks. It would have been easier to find people, strike up a conversation, etc.
This event was bankrolled by Dave Cameron, and he is about $200 short at this point, and some of you preregistered people didn’t show up, so IMHO you should offer him $5-$10, if not the full $15.
#14–Dylan, the photos look great– I’m glad you and Jim have mastered the whole photography-in-bad-light thing; I’m still figuring out this new-fangled digital stuff, and my pictures from the feed pretty much look like crap
Since Gunga won’t post this…his (and really, mine too) favorite news of the day was what a short leash Hargrove is on (this wasn’t from Bavasi, but from Dave). Rohn is basically serving as an understudy to Hargrove at this point, ready to step in at a moment’s notice (and that moment apparently almost came last fall, but hopefully, will come very soon nonetheless).
#33: they didn’t ask the question about what, if anything, the org is doing to prevent/minimize pitching injuries.
I wasn’t much on the softball questions either. Though I would like to know which GM Bavasi was referring to when he said there’s 1 GM who doesn’t listen to or ask anybody else’s opinion, he just goes and does what he’s gonna do. The way he said it (I think he added ‘we’ll see how that works out for him’), it seemed like he was talking about a new GM, but I could have misinterpreted.
I did like the part where Bavasi was talking about challenging the players more, pushing them through the minors faster, and used Blackley as an example of how he was hitting his head up against a wall after a bad major league outing, because he’d sort of been coddled by the organization and not challenged hard enough, and therefore hadn’t really experienced and learned to deal with adversity yet. Bavasi said he’d rather the players get pushed harder so they learn to deal with adversity in the minors as opposed to the majors, whereas the previous philosophy seemed to be that they wanted to see the players succeed at each level and not move onto the next till they were totally ready.
Many good comments from Bavasi regarding both Bob Fontaine (drafting dude) and Bob Engel (dude who grabs us guys like Felix in the Latin American scouting market). These are the gems of the organization, and Bavasi knows that, comparing them to actual talent as opposed to just being an (replaceable) executive as he categorized himself, Howard, Chuck.
Much discussion on the pitching injury, 4-man rotation idea, why can’t pitchers pitch as often/hard as they used to – but all that occurred AFTER Bavasi left (and this is where the awesome steak and Ming vase analogies came in). Of course, nothing could top the Siegrfied & Roy section of the day, really….
Oh, and wait, did anybody mention that Dave really likes some pitcher named Miller????
Andrew Miller, I think. The best part about Dave mentioning Andrew Miller was Bill’s reaction to Dave’s place of residence.
“Wait, did you just say you live in North Carolina? What the hell are you doing here?”
Dave’s response: “I’m a nerd, with plane tickets.”
Fan-dang-tastic.
Every year I think my head will pop with frustration with this organization… and then Bavasi shows up and acts all reasonable and logical and I am snuggled in a cozy blanket of calm. It would be interesting to see how the team would do if (to steal the Bugs Bunny example) Bavasi played each role in the front office – owner, gm, president, etc.
Brilliant and generous of him to take the time with us. I use us in a metaphorical sense. I was no closer than about 1200 miles from the event.
I would love any more tidbits anyone can share about his take on Doyle – that fills me with glee.
Bavasi suggested that Doyle was perhaps only 30-45 days away. His first reaction to a question from Dave (who noted that everybody expected the roster move would be Doyle to the 60-day rather than DFA’ing Carvajal) about why not putting Doyle on the 60-day DL was “because it won’t be that long.” Later, he said that Snelling is wound so tight and works so hard that they didn’t want to send him a message that they would put him on the 60-day DL for (valid) organizational reasons “just because we can” when there is a decent chance he will be ready before 60 days. I think most people reacted to his comments as I did — that he was considering the people involved and making decisions that are perfectly defensible for reasons not always obvious to everyday fans.
But that also included information new to me, that Doyle is a bit of a psycho. In a good way. Loved the ping pong ball story.
Bill’s comments about Grover were telling (Bill doesn’t like the 12-man pitching staff), especially when combined with Dave’s comments about Grover’s job security (effectivly zero).
I would be interested to hear Dave expand on his claim that the only guy in the organisation with less job security than Grover is Meche. Does this mean we’re not going to run Meche out there as long as he stays healthy, but instead we’ll make decisions based on whether he’s crappy? That would be new.
plivengood –
Thank you much. That little tidbit changes my optimism and enthusiasm for this team more than it has any right to.
Yeah, I liked hearing that Grover’s on a short leash, contract or not. If, heaven forbid, the M’s stumble hard out of the gate, don’t count on Grover being here beyond May, if that. And yes, Dan Rohn’s 1st in line to take his place.
And the organization, especially the players, likes Hargrove as much as most of us do.
33. On the pitching injury question, though Bavasi didn’t address it at the feed, Dave did remark afterward that the pitching motion is just a naturally destrcutive motion, and that despite anyone’s best intentions, there will always be pitcher attrition in baseball (and of course Derek chimed in to reference his attrition research that readers here are familiar with). That said, history has shown that some guys are just stronger and better suited to pitching without getting hurt than others, just like some are more fragile than others.
As for the Mariners’ bad fortune… I forget which of the bloggers mentioned this, but someone did reference Lou’s overusage and that that could be a huge factor. As for Mads, with his bad shoulder (which was bad before his 2004 campaign) he was just a time bomb and the organization just tried to get as much from him as they could.
Doyle’s notion of rehab. actually, if you haven’t read them, all the journal entries he wrote for At the yard are pretty entertaining…
The M’s use of Madritsch could be equated to Boston’s use of Curt Leskanic in 2004. They knew his shoulder was falling apart, but they sent him out there as long as they could trying to extract every last ounce of value. Tito said as much in a postseason interview that year. “Curt’s shoulder is hanging by a thread,” he said.
If we do this again next year, no matter who the GM is (Bill was pretty candid in addressing his own possible firing), I’m in. It was a great time.
Hm. Judging by the reactions to Bavasi’s comments, it appears to me that a) there are other people in the front office making less than optimal decisions and/or b) Bavasi fully knows that the decisions he made are less than good, but wasn’t able to pull off the better ones at all. Yes? No?
Bavasi did defend Everett’s signing.
First of all, he says the option doesnt vest easily, and that “if it vests, it means Carl’s kickin’ ass.”
But, Bill seems to view “hitting in the middle of the order” as a skill, not unlike “proven closer” (he didn’t make that comparison – someone else did later). So, when Dave asked his specifically why he’d spent a bunch of money on Carl, when similar guys “like Choi, Branyan, and Pena” were guarateed to come available (something Bill himself had said), Bill insisted that Carl had some special ability to hit in the middle of the order that the other guys hadn’t demonstrated.
But again, the best part about that exchange was how Dave defined the group of guys similar to Carl. He said, “hits .250 with some pop, from the left side, get hurt a lot.”
#49. I think Bavasi sort of addressed that some of the information available to the Ms in years prior to his arrival was not optimal, and that he had instituted some changes in that. (I’m thinking Mattox? I don’t know). I believe the little segment I’m thinking of was when Bill was replying to the ‘you DFAed a lot of big contracts/names lately’ question….
The Everett defense was irritating, I thought. He didn’t come out and SAY ‘he has grit’ but he might as well have, what with the whole ‘he’s PROVEN that he can hit’ thing….
One thing nobody has mentioned yet is his response to the ‘is Raffy Soriano ever going to start’ question. The answer was, yeah, maybe, down the road, but the medical staff didn’t figure it was a good idea now.
I think Bill’s point is that the guys mentioned haven’t had the responsibility to hit in the middle of the order, where you’re under more pressure to knock guys in and generate the offense.
Carl has shown he can do that over a full season again and again. The other guys mention have put up good peripherals, but not full time, or not consistently in the 3-4-5 hole.
I can’t believe I forgot this funny line. Bavasi said that YuBet got special protective gloves because he slides head-first, then said that, when Doyle comes back, they’re gonna teach Doyle to slide head-first, and get him a set of gloves like YuBet.
Carl has shown he can do that over a full season again and again. The other guys mention have put up good peripherals, but not full time, or not consistently in the 3-4-5 hole.
AAAAARRRGGGGHHHH. This is the most annoying thing ever to keep being regurgitated, whether it’s by Bill Bavasi or USSM posters. RBIs are a function of position in the batting order. I repeat: RBIs are a function of position in the batting order.
Cases in point:
Bret Boone, 2004:
.251, 24 HRs, 83 RBI, .317 OBP, .423 SLG
Carl Everett, 2005:
.251, 23 HRs, 87 RBI, .311 OBP, .435 SLG
Pedro Feliz, 2005:
.250, 20 HRs, 81 RBI, .295 OBP, .422 SLG
You can be a very crappy hitter and get 80+ RBIs in the middle of the order- simply because if there are runners on base when you get up to the plate, you WILL knock some in even if you are a .250/.310/.425 hitter.
OK…that’s good to know. Apparently Bavasi still has problems with Conventional Wisdomitis, but perhaps not as much as some fans think he does.
I sort of overdosed on the whole ‘proven veteran’ crap when Lou was here, so I’m clearly over-sensitized to it. (like developing an allergic reaction over time).
Sign me up for the podcast as well. Definitely Derek and Jeff since their schedules match the best, and if Jason and Dave can call in via Skype (recordable, easily edited into the podcast) even better.
i got there a little late and must have missed bavasi’s comments on his own potential firing. could someone summarize those?